Norwegian Cruise Ship "Loses" Autistic Boy

[dwjoe]

my exacts thoughts. Thanks for thinking clearly on this one. The cabin steward thing really bothered me as well.

I think the cabin steward's behavior was fine. He finds a kid alone in the cabin, he doesn't know what to do. He may not know the child is autistic. He doesn't know the child let themselves out from the kids club. He may not know if the child is allowed to be alone by themselves. So he calls his supervisor and watches the kid until the parents arrive. No harm done. The breakdown was elsewhere, in the kids club.

[roe2ship]

Wow….some of the crass statements posted are so ridiculous. I would bet some of those comments made are by people who aren’t even parents.:rolleyes:

 

My youngest child is 11 years old and if this had happened to us I would have been furious. I would at least expect a detailed explanation by personal phone call (not a letter) of how and why this had occurred. NCL, just like the other cruise lines have a responsibility for the safety of children once they are dropped off at the kids clubs. Period! Thank goodness the boy is okay and even more so that the parents went to the cabin first to find that he was there instead of arriving at the kids club only to hear from a counselor…..”we can’t find him”

 

Sorry these parents had this rare incident happen to them. I’m glad it’s been posted as a warning for many to know and hopefully it will result in changes starting with competent staffing and much tighter security.

[kerrytens]

I think the cabin steward's behavior was fine. He finds a kid alone in the cabin, he doesn't know what to do. He may not know the child is autistic. He doesn't know the child let themselves out from the kids club. He may not know if the child is allowed to be alone by themselves. So he calls his supervisor and watches the kid until the parents arrive. No harm done. The breakdown was elsewhere, in the kids club.

Agreed. The steward should be commended, imho.

[tennislvr8]

I am a special education teacher and have worked with quite a few autistic children. I am certain the reason NCL has not given a better response is because they do not have one, I am not saying that is right but it is what it is. I am just as certain that this does nothing to please the parents, but it happens. Things happen for which there is no answer, kids are crafty, special needs or not. Just because this boy is autistic does not mean he is stupid, he did after all find his way back to the room. Luckily the boy was found safe and unharmed as well as being cared for. I am certain this was not the first time on the cruise the boy was left with the them. It was an accident. If this child was not special needs, it would not even be a story.

[luvtheships]

I think the cabin steward's behavior was fine. He finds a kid alone in the cabin, he doesn't know what to do. He may not know the child is autistic. He doesn't know the child let themselves out from the kids club. He may not know if the child is allowed to be alone by themselves. So he calls his supervisor and watches the kid until the parents arrive. No harm done. The breakdown was elsewhere, in the kids club.

 

however, a cabin steward should never be told to stay alone with a child..no crew member should be put in that position. the child should have been placed with at least 2 adults..possibly security.

 

what if all you want,but this particular child has a disability and may have been upset with himself for leaving the club and might figure his parents would be furious with him and could easily have made up a story to cover why he left the club.

if he left the club when he was told not to by his parents then he may certainly concoct a story for his parents..and say the steward hurt him or forced him to do something.

 

I dont like it but this is what is happening nowadays.

[sacway]

We have cruised twice on NCL with our three kids and are booked for another one this year.

 

Based on our experience (neither that bad nor that stellar), I hope NCL management prioritizes its review of the kids program in response to this incident and similar others where parents might have taken cruise crediit in exchange for revealing nothing publicly. This would seem to satisfy the parents' expressed interest in seeing their experience more widely discussed, including management's considered thought and public response about activities, leadership, and oversight at the kids club.

 

I imagine other cruise lines face similar challenges in regards to kids' programs:

1) Lots of kids during school holidays, hardly any at other times of the year.

2) Not much "value added" selling opportunities with kids to defray the cost of providing a kids program.

3) A crew personnel model that doesn't seem to support seasonal hiring, so that there could easily be too many kids program staffers most of the year, too few at peak season.

4) Ship layouts that can make the variation in numbers of kids in the program ungainly, that is, checking hundreds of kids in/out from gates in a single narrow hall/stairwell can be a major bottleneck (and source for grumbling for all involved) during peak season.

 

Disney limits these problems, IMO, because some parents will pull their kids from school to go to Disney away from peak times, and the company is the world's expert at monetizing children's experiences what with its ownership of so many iconic characters, films, etc.

 

I know many people cruise without children. We used to, also. I am among those who don't like kids running up and down the decks in unsupervised packs. I think it makes for a better mass market cruise whenever daily activities are extensive and inclusive of many interests and many ages.

 

Open discussion might allow for brainstorming between families and NCL and innovations to improve the experience for both sides of the equation. Publicizing a "lucky nothing tragic happened" warning incident can lead to the line's expression of its forward planning on kids activities and oversight, addressing parental concerns without appearing defensive and after the fact. I think there are enough established daycare and customer service strategies in existence to fit the overall model at NCL and affirm a public impression that the line takes kids programs seriously.

[kwbound]

I think the parents are fully justified in wanting to know what exactly happened that allowed their child to leave without anyone realizing it, and exactly what NCL has done to insure that situation doesn't occur again. I think that not only the parents involved, but every parent who is thinking of utilizing this service would want to see a statement from NCL along the lines of, "Ben was able to leave the club unattended because (insert reason). NCL has taken the following steps (insert steps) to insure that this situation does not occur again." The reasons that it happened could be anything from the caregiver had to run to the bathroom and thought everything would be ok, or another family took their kids out and Ben walked out with them and the caregiver thought he was part of their family, to something worse, like the caregiver was distracted when her off-duty boyfriend came to visit. NCL's lack of explanation would be worrisome to me if I was a parent thinking of using the kids' club.

[halos]

Look, I love NCL too. But sometimes they make a mistake:eek: Lets just admit it.

 

 

I agree that they did.

They admitted that they did.

They apologized profusely and gave compensation.

 

The parents of this child are VERY rightly upset, but what more do they want NCL to do? I imagine things will be a lot different in the Kids Club after this incident and that's good. This incident ended with no one hurt, and that is also good. I just don't understand what the parents want from NCL at this point. :confused:

 

I think the parents are fully justified in wanting to know what exactly happened that allowed their child to leave without anyone realizing it, .

 

That may be impossible considering the child snuck out without anyone even realizing it.

[iheartbda]

however, a cabin steward should never be told to stay alone with a child..no crew member should be put in that position. the child should have been placed with at least 2 adults..possibly security.

 

what if all you want,but this particular child has a disability and may have been upset with himself for leaving the club and might figure his parents would be furious with him and could easily have made up a story to cover why he left the club.

if he left the club when he was told not to by his parents then he may certainly concoct a story for his parents..and say the steward hurt him or forced him to do something.

 

I dont like it but this is what is happening nowadays.

Do you know for a fact that the cabin steward was left completely alone with the child?

Do you know for a fact that cruise lines do not run criminal checks on crew?

If, should never, should have, may have, might figure, could easily have made up, may certainly..............soooooooo much conjecture.

[iheartbda]

I agree that they did.

They admitted that they did.

They apologized profusely and gave compensation.

 

The parents of this child are VERY rightly upset, but what more do they want NCL to do? I imagine things will be a lot different in the Kids Club after this incident and that's good.

I wouldn't doubt that some heads rolled, and rightly so.

 

This incident ended with no one hurt, and that is also good. I just don't understand what the parents want from NCL at this point. :confused:

I'm wondering that as well.

 

 

 

That may be impossible considering the child snuck out without anyone even realizing it.

[avic77]

I am glad the child found his way safely to his cabin. NCL dropped the ball somewhere by letting this child escape the children's club. But they did offer an apology and compensation, what else can they do?

I hope they took the oppurtunity to retrain their staff and fortify exits ;)

[GORDONCHICK]

I swear the father has already posted here or in another string that they hand picked the activities their son was allowed to participate in to exclude any activities in which the children would leave the secure kids club area. If that is the case then endless speculating about him wandering off in transit is meaningless. Like that would have been OK, anyway! That would not be a "security issue"? They "lose" your kid at school between the playground and the classroom and that is not a security issue? Why play word games.

 

 

Would you please reference/link where you read they didn't allow him to participate at times the group wasn't in the kids' club? I'm a pretty good reader, and I never read that in the CC article and the other thread on the family board. I could have missed it, but I read them twice.

 

And then, please get a grip. I was offering a much more plausible way for Ben to get a way from his group - because the actual kids' areas are essentially guarded. I find it much easier to understand my scenario than most of what's been posted. Especially since I have a DS in that age group and personally experienced him being moved about the ship on a holiday cruise.

 

Lastly, go take a look at my first post on this thread (#36) to see where I laid blame and maybe you'll change your tune.

[halos]

I wouldn't doubt that some heads rolled, and rightly so.

 

I agree!!

~~~~~~~~~

 

 

however, a cabin steward should never be told to stay alone with a child..no crew member should be put in that position. the child should have been placed with at least 2 adults..possibly security.

.

I don't agree with that, although I see your point. But we don't know how much time elapsed between when the steward was told to watch the child and when the parents arrived. It may have been a short period.

 

I think having the cabin steward stay with the child was the right thing to do...but that's just my opinion. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that decision by NCL.

 

 

The cruise line admitted blame as they should have. Nobody should be blaming the parents.

Learning experience for all it seems.

[LAatl]

I'm sorry...if there is a special needs child, they shouldn't be left without parental supervision. I feel for the parents who want some alone time...however, the staff of any cruise line, shouldn't be responsible for keeping an eye on an autistic child to make sure they don't wander off. they have enough to do.

[halos]

I'm sorry...if there is a special needs child, they shouldn't be left without parental supervision. I feel for the parents who want some alone time...however, the staff of any cruise line, shouldn't be responsible for keeping an eye on an autistic child to make sure they don't wander off. they have enough to do.

This could have been ANY child. The fact that they didn't even know that a child was missing is more than a little disturbing.

and AGAIN, NCL admitted fault here, as they should. Kudos to them for that.

[kerrytens]

This could have been ANY child. The fact that they didn't even know that a child was missing is more than a little disturbing.

Right on the mark! If we were to subscribe to the 100% parental supervision for special need's children then none of our kids would go to school. At some point in time, we as parents, need to trust others to care for our children - special needs or not.

[dwjoe]

I'm sorry...if there is a special needs child, they shouldn't be left without parental supervision. I feel for the parents who want some alone time...however, the staff of any cruise line, shouldn't be responsible for keeping an eye on an autistic child to make sure they don't wander off. they have enough to do.

No, I don't agree. If they accept responsibility for the child they have a duty to ensure the child does not slip out unnoticed.

[Shayhooper]

I'm sorry to hear that this happened, but what else should/could NCL have done after the fact, other than what they offered/did:

 

an apology, monetary compensation, and an investigation.

 

I don't see that the cruise line was crass, uncaring, or insensitive. They took the complaint seriously and did what they could. It's not like they could go back in time and stop it from occurring.

 

The family can choose to accept some, all, or none of what was offered and then move forward. They now know that their child can escape from what is reported to be a well monitored environment, but sadly, he's unable to tell them how he did it--which would be the most helpful thing to ALL of the parties involved. Had this been a child without special needs, the parents would have been upset with BOTH the child and the cruise line.

 

Very well put.

[onlysister]

Just had to chime in here....I am disturbed reading some of these replies about this occurrence. To me it matters not whether the child was autistic or not. He was 10 years old, in an area that was to be secure and children were not to be allowed to just walk out of.

 

I don't feel the parents are looking for more compensation or to tarnish the reputation of NCL. I feel they just want others to be aware of this occurrence which they could not have done if they had accepted the future cruise credit and had to sign a non-disclosure.

 

I also, IMHO, feel that NCL should have been keeping in touch with these parents to determine what happened, how it happened, and how to avoid these situations in the future. Public disclosure about what happened and how they are working on preventing such an incident would go a long way in helping families feel they can bring their children with them on a cruise and feel safe about leaving them in the Kids Camp.

 

Yes, I traveled with my grandchildren last spring on the Spirit and they enjoyed their time in and out of the kids area. If I had found out one of them (age 10 and 11 at the time) had left the area and the crew did not know they were missing then I would probably be doing exactly as this parent is doing.

 

This is one of the "what ifs" that should be addressed in a crew meeting. I assume they have those....Even WalMart has a system in place for "missing children in the store". Like WalMart, NCL should notify their customers about how they will handle things like this in the future, not brush it under the rug and pretend it didn't occur.

 

Like I said, just my opinion. And yes, kudo's to the steward, I would like to know who it was and to give him a big thank you from all parents and grandparents for his composure and compassion.

[CPT Trips]

I think the parents are fully justified in wanting to know what exactly happened that allowed their child to leave without anyone realizing it, and exactly what NCL has done to insure that situation doesn't occur again. I think that not only the parents involved, but every parent who is thinking of utilizing this service would want to see a statement from NCL along the lines of, "Ben was able to leave the club unattended because (insert reason). NCL has taken the following steps (insert steps) to insure that this situation does not occur again." The reasons that it happened could be anything from the caregiver had to run to the bathroom and thought everything would be ok, or another family took their kids out and Ben walked out with them and the caregiver thought he was part of their family, to something worse, like the caregiver was distracted when her off-duty boyfriend came to visit. NCL's lack of explanation would be worrisome to me if I was a parent thinking of using the kids' club.

 

If I were the parent I would want to know too. But, until the time to file suit passes, NCL would be nuts to release anything more than they already have.

[dijid]

C'mon people - it absolutely does make a difference that this happened with a boy who has autism. It would be a very different thread if an almost 11yo neurotypical (ie non special needs) boy without signout priveledge had left the kids club on his own. It would be different because:

 

1) The boy would be able to tell exactly how he did it. There wouldn't be any demanding of security camera footage. The parents could then tell NCL what happened to help prevent it from happening again.

 

2) The boy would be capable of knowing what he did was wrong. He would know he wasn't allowed to sign himself out and leave on his own.

 

which brings up 3) We would all be blaming the child first, and NCL second because it would have been a conscious decision by a child who knew better to cheat the system and get away with something they knew they shouldn't do.

 

It would be different because at 10, a NT kid should be able to stay alone at home (and possibly alone in a ship cabin) by themselves for short periods of time. Think about things you were capable at a younger age. At 6, my neighbor and I walked to school without parents. At 11 I was babysitting. My 11yo son runs small errands for me. Even my 9yo can walk down to the street corner alone and drop something in the mailbox.

 

It would be a totally different thread for a non-special needs child.

[DMLyons]

That may be impossible considering the child snuck out without anyone even realizing it.

 

With all the security cameras aboard, you would think they would have them in the kids' club (for their own legal protection, if for no other reason) and outside every exit from the club. If that isn't already in place, that should be a priority for them, now that this has happened.

 

DML

[DMLyons]

C'mon people - it absolutely does make a difference that this happened with a boy who has autism.

 

It would be a totally different thread for a non-special needs child.

 

Please keep in mind that this person does NOT speak for most parents and smacks to me of someone who has never had a special needs child, certainly never a high-functioning autistic child, since a lot of the assumptions made are patently wrong for many autistic children and only apply to a subset of spectrum children. In specific, I will address the poster's "pertinent points."

 

1) Many autistic kids can tell you how they did it...or show you how they did it. And not all kids who aren't autistic will be willing to tell you how it was done...or to tell you the truth about how it was done. And it doesn't really matter if the child can tell us. The bottom line is that the kids' club was responsible for making sure NO CHILD walked out of there, autistic or not. This is a concern for any parent, not just those of a spectrum child. If one child can walk out, another can. Walking out of the club is not something only a special needs kid will or is capable of doing. The adults in the club are the responsible parties. Not the kids. That's why kids are put in child care situations...to provide responsible oversight on what the children do in the absence of parents.

 

2) Knowing something is wrong doesn't mean a child won't do it, special needs or not. A special needs child may become fixated and do something against the rules without thought of consequences, but so can a non-spectrum child. At about Ben's age, the brain enters a period of rapid maturation, especially in areas of motor function and (less quickly) logic. The problem is that the ability to do and the drive to try to do new motor tasks comes years before the logic to reason consequences and gauge danger, which means a high percentage of pre-teens and teens seem intent on their own destruction. You can, if you wish, assign more guilt or intent to a non-spectrum child, but in the end, that doesn't really matter. What matters is the level of security NCL provided, and that was lacking.

 

3) No. I would be blaming NCL first, whether the child was special needs or not. The adults in that room were responsible for making sure no child left it. NONE. Special needs or not. Their duty to keep kids inside that club doesn't differ, depending on whether or not the child has special needs. There should ALWAYS be a stationary guard or block to kids walking out doors. Does the child have some culpability? Sure, but as I said above, the adults are paid to be there and trained to be there to be the responsible party for children who have not yet developed adult awareness of dangers. That is the end of passing the buck, in a situation like this.

 

4) Many special needs kids can very well stay at home alone at 11 for short periods of time or walk to the mail box at 9 or walk to school at Ben's age, but a cruise ship is not home or even the home neighborhood. Even the comparison is nonsensical. It would be more comparable to dropping your child off in the middle of a town he/she has some knowledge of, surrounded by strangers, some of whom may pose a danger to the child, and physical dangers, with a map and saying: "Find your way home with this." Very different situation than being left home (a familiar and relatively safe environment).

 

5) But...those of us with high-functioning autistic children do give our children freedoms, as they are ready for them. My own daughter was babysitting at 13. My son, also spectrum though a different type, was not ready for that type of responsibility at that age and didn't babysit for more than two years after his older sister did. Like all parents, we have to decide what freedoms/personal responsibility to give our kids and when. Since the NCL kids' club allows parents to set the level of freedoms the child will have, they faulted in letting Ben leave.

 

Yes, it would be a very different thread with a child that wasn't special needs. People wouldn't try to hide behind misconceptions and bias, if it was. NCL had no additional responsibility toward Ben than any other child in care. That's what some posters don't seem to understand. They faulted on the baseline care they owed ANY child left in their care, special needs or not.

 

DML

[rvsullivan]

Should this occurrence be determined to be an ongoing issue, then NCL has a problem. If this was a one time event and a child found a way to "beat" the system, the loophole should be closed and the reported actions by NCL should close the issue. There is no indication (and I'm sure folks would be reporting it here) that NCL is consistently "losing" children. They offered an apology and compensation, they cannot legally report on individual action against an employee. They said they took appropriate actions and fixed any problems they found. Only time will tell. Reporting publicly on where a security breach was found, would only encourage others to try the same thing or report the same thing happening to them.

Before you jump, I'm not saying this child intentionally "beat" the system, I'm saying he found a way out. He may not even know he did it.

[Beaver1975]

Is it me, or have some parents become way to reliant on the ships personnel to take care of their children while on a "family" vacation?