CUNARD "to LOOSEN UP "

[vjmatty]

[quote name='Midsomer Madness']I would prefer they leave the three dress codes, but if losing semi formal keeps the formal nights the same then it's not too high a price to pay IMO :)[/QUOTE]

I think the best thing would be the predicability of what to pack, since Cunard is famous for changing the number of formal/semiformal/elegant causal nights after you are on board, varying from what was in the cruise documents.

If it were as simple as sea days=formal and port days=elegant casual, we would know exactly what to pack based on itinerary.

[glojo]

[quote name='vjmatty']Hard to say.... is it "lowering" standards to want more formal nights but do away with semiformal?[/quote]Not sure about increasing anything... Not sure about that but it is no hardship to wear a jacket for an evening meal. as I keep saying I always wear a tie when I wear a jacket but that is me and my personal choice but if wearing a jacket has worked since the inauguration of Cunard then PLEASE let us maintain the standards of this very traditional company.

A pet hate of mine is the wearing by men of a cap or hat whilst indoors and.....

[B][COLOR=red]Danger, danger[/COLOR][/B].... humour, humour.... Will our beer swilling, kangaroo jumping, sheep shearing (fooled you there) colonial friends allow this?

[vjmatty]

[quote name='glojo']Not sure about increasing anything... Not sure about that but it is no hardship to wear a jacket for an evening meal. as I keep saying I always wear a tie when I wear a jacket but that is me and my personal choice but if wearing a jacket has worked since the inauguration of Cunard then PLEASE let us maintain the standards of this very traditional company.
[/QUOTE]

Oh I am not looking to end the men wearing jackets. I just think semiformal muddies the waters for women and requires too many pairs of shoes. Also, more importantly, semiformal requires the use of pantyhose, which a gown on formal nights and slacks on elegant casual nights, do not.

[Salacia]

[quote name='Salacia']Here's an interesting piece published today [URL]http://www.philly.com/philly/travel/20130317_What_Price_Luxury_.html[/URL]

Partial quote from that article:

[I]Tradition remains a big part of the QM2 experience, with daily afternoon teas, a dining system tiered according to your level of cabin accommodations, and rigidly enforced dress codes after 6 p.m. Wearing jeans at night is discouraged.[/I]

[I]"If a man shows up at dinner without a tuxedo or dark suit on a formal night or [COLOR=purple]not wearing a jacket and tie on a semiformal night,[/COLOR] the maitre d' will politely remind him of the rule and direct him to the King's Court buffet," said Robert Howie, the ship's hotel manager. "There you can dine in a more relaxed atmosphere."[/I]

[I]Howie doesn't foresee Cunard following the trend of other cruise lines that have relaxed dress codes and introduced choice and anytime dining.[/I]

[I][COLOR=red]"Our company is more than 150 years old with certain standards that our passengers expect and enjoy," he said. "No, I don't see that changing."[/COLOR][/I]

:confused:[/quote]

Looks like somebody forgot to tell the ship's hotel manager that the semi-formal category was being dropped from the dress code. And if Peter Shanks knew it was being dropped, he forgot to mention it either in his Q&A (or the subsequent post made here previously - if that post was indeed his).

[capnpugwash]

[quote name='vjmatty']Oh I am not looking to end the men wearing jackets. I just think semiformal muddies the waters for women and requires too many pairs of shoes. Also, more importantly, semiformal requires the use of pantyhose, which a gown on formal nights and slacks on elegant casual nights, do not.[/quote]

OK, who told you that I wear pantyhose on semi-formal evenings?? No secret is safe it seems.

[Cruachan]

[quote name='capnpugwash']OK, who told you that I wear pantyhose on semi-formal evenings?? No secret is safe it seems.[/quote]

This place leaks like a rusty bucket - I blame the cat! He knows all and tells all :eek:

J

[Fifer]

[quote name='Salacia']Looks like somebody forgot to tell the ship's hotel manager that the semi-formal category was being dropped from the dress code. [/QUOTE]

Not at all. The article you quote makes it clear that the cruise in question took place last summer, long before all this current brouhaha. Not like you to miss a detail like that.

[NomDePlume]

[quote name='Fifer']Not at all. The article you quote makes it clear that the cruise in question took place last summer, long before all this current brouhaha. [COLOR="Red"]Not like you to miss a detail like that[/COLOR].[/QUOTE]

[I][COLOR="Blue"]Oh dear. First Peter Shanks, and now Salacia.

You never know who's who these days. :eek:

(s) The Real NomDePlume
[/COLOR][/I]

[Salacia]

[quote name='Fifer']Not at all. The article you quote makes it clear that the cruise in question took place last summer, long before all this current brouhaha. Not like you to miss a detail like that.[/quote]

Hi Fifer. Yes the author spoke about a cruise taken "last summer" but seemed to me to be writing from a comptemorary viewpoint, i.e. updating his experience. To quote:

"Take it from a veteran cruiser who came off a four-nation Scandinavian journey on the 2,600-passenger Cunard Cruise Line flagship last summer: A successor to the retired, 39-year-old, trailblazing Queen Elizabeth 2, she's holding her own against the megaship competitors that came after her." [url]http://articles.philly.com/2013-03-17/news/37789764_1_qm2-royal-caribbean-semiformal-night[/url]

In view of the fact that the piece was recently written, I thought it was safe to take the author's quotes from the Hotel Manager as being recently obtained. I'll have to send him an e-mail and ask :D -S

[Salacia]

[quote name='NomDePlume'][I][COLOR=blue]Oh dear. First Peter Shanks, and now Salacia.[/COLOR][/I]

[I][COLOR=blue]You never know who's who these days. :eek:[/COLOR][/I]

[I][COLOR=blue](s) The Real NomDePlume[/COLOR][/I]
[/quote]

Please, I am not worthy to be mentioned in the same sentence as Peter Shanks. :eek:

(That one's for you J. & Sir Martin:D)

[vjmatty]

[quote name='capnpugwash']OK, who told you that I wear pantyhose on semi-formal evenings?? No secret is safe it seems.[/QUOTE]

Sorry capn, I am sworn to secrecy :)

[Germancruiser]

Whitemarsh- " your newly desinged" uniforms for the officers are not thaaaaaaaaaaaath bad to look at. By the way to the guys come with the unfiorm?? LOL Thanks!

[Salacia]

[quote name='Salacia']Hi MaggieMM. I really hope you haven't cancelled your booking for the 5 night July4th cruise because of the possiblity that at some point in the future, there MIGHT be some relaxation in the dress code. No doubt the dress code for your voyage has already been set --does the published dress code meet your expectations? If so, then there's really no reason to cancel. BTW, you might come across comments about passengers on shorter cruises not being serious about following the dress code, etc. But from my personal experience of past July4th cruises, I can tell you that passengers were extremely well dressed, well behaved and the atmosphere on board was very festive. I'd feel very badly if you cancelled, and even worse, you'd miss the opportunity to experience the ship for yourself. Who knows? You might come back after the cruise and take the position that the dress code does need to relax a little :) Regards, -S.[/quote]

MaggieMM, I am sorry, I was wrong in my comments regard the change in dress code. Please accept my apology. Regards, -S.

[saneil]

Cunard solves a knotty problem I read this on the following website this morning [url]http://www.travelmole.com/Cunard[/url] solves a knotty problem

Cunard Line has renewed its commitment to dress codes onboard its ships, while at the same time encouraging the loosening of ties on its less formal nights. '¨'¨

Research with existing passengers and luxury travellers generally has led Cunard to strengthen the line's commitment to special occasion dressing three times a week on its transatlantic crossings and twice each week on sailings to the Mediterranean, Scandinavia and beyond.'¨'¨

However, also in response to growing travel trends, Cunard is adjusting its advice on dress codes for other nights.

The result: Along with two or three formal nights each week, there will be four or five "informal" evenings where jackets are required but ties will now become optional.
Wednesday, March 20, 2013

[Wordzz]

[quote name='saneil']Cunard solves a knotty problem I read this on the following website this morning [URL]http://www.travelmole.com/Cunard[/URL] solves a knotty problem

Cunard Line has renewed its commitment to dress codes onboard its ships, while at the same time encouraging the loosening of ties on its less formal nights. '¨'¨

Research with existing passengers and luxury travellers generally has led Cunard to strengthen the line's commitment to special occasion dressing three times a week on its transatlantic crossings and twice each week on sailings to the Mediterranean, Scandinavia and beyond.'¨'¨

However, also in response to growing travel trends, Cunard is adjusting its advice on dress codes for other nights.

The result: Along with two or three formal nights each week, there will be four or five "informal" evenings where jackets are required but ties will now become optional.
Wednesday, March 20, 2013[/quote]

So I wonder what makes the new dress code different from that on several other lines, which also have two formal nights per week? Seems to me Cunard can't have it both ways - they are either a formal line or they're not. And if they're not, well OK, that's a business decision they can choose to make, whatever we (I) think of it. However, I'd suggest that they may need to adjust their advertising, which heavily promotes the formality and tradition of the line.

[glojo]

Has anyone bothered to write to the head of Cunard to voice concerns over this relaxation\lowering of standards? I am sure they will try to convince everyone that this is not 'lowering' more a coming into line or other namby pamby, wishy washy explanation that they believe will explain this action.

[Wordzz]

[quote name='glojo']Has anyone bothered to write to the head of Cunard to voice concerns over this relaxation\lowering of standards? I am sure they will try to convince everyone that this is not 'lowering' more a coming into line or other namby pamby, wishy washy explanation that they believe will explain this action.[/quote]

Yes, I have written to (emailed) them. No response yet, but if I should receive anything other than a bland, condescending corporate response, I will report back.

[Scrapnana]

Can't wait to see the pictures of passengers sporting the new dress code in future brochures.

[Salacia]

[quote name='Scrapnana']Can't wait to see the pictures of passengers sporting the new dress code in future brochures.[/quote]

I've noticed a change in the garb worn by models in the recent Cunard promos. Remember all those grandly dressed models, posed in splendid on board locations while smiling at each other? I think they must have joined the unemployment line.

[babine]

My how things change quickly.


"We do not intend to reduce or dilute either the style or the number of our Formal nights - they remain very important to us and very much enjoyed by our guests. Not sure what happened on the Queen Elizabeth - it may have been on one of the short 2 night voyages to Hamburg. Sometimes for operational reasons our team onboard need to make adjustments as they see best - but please be assured that Cunard Formal is and will be Cunard Formal. Best Regards. Peter"

[Happyboating]

Am I the only one still waiting to see a post from one of the "casual" preferring masses that they are pleased with the changes and ready to now book with Cunard? They have been vocal enough in the past, about not liking the formality, but I suspect these changes haven't gone far enough to please them so who are Cunard pleasing at present?

Also, the masses who want "casual" cruising will, I presume, be upset to find that if they now book with Cunard, and don't choose to participate in the two "formal" nights of their cruise - three on a crossing - that on those two nights they are going to be confined to dining in Kings Court/Lido and then socialising in the Winter Garden as the rest of the ship will be out of bounds. How many of the mass "casual" cruisers do we think are going to quietly tolerate that? I'm expecting them to be very vocal with their objections!

Finally, "casual" cruisers will also expect "any time" dining which doesn't just involve dining at a time of your choosing but also means having a table size of their choice for each meal - it may be a table for 2 some nights and a table for 4, 6 or 8 other nights. It certainly doesn't mean an allocated table! We're booked on the new Royal Princess in June and that has three main dining rooms - one 300 seat "traditional" dining restaurant which caters for the usual two sittings, plus two 300 seat "any time" restaurants. It also has two 100+ seat "extra charge" restaurants - a steakhouse grill and an Italian - both of which have an a la carte menu, not just a taster menu like the KC/Lido alternative restaurants (we tried the Pan Asian one evening). There are also various other speciality food areas. Clearly, Princess do "casual" (eating where, when, and with whom you want) better than Cunard can ever do it because their ships are designed for it with more dining room options. Apparently "formal" on Princess only relates to the main dining rooms - people then change after dinner to enjoy a more casual evening and also, I presume, to blend in with everyone else who have dined somewhere other than one of the three main dining rooms.

So, whilst we're not happy with the new arrangement - and it would appear that we're not alone - I also feel that the masses who want "casual" also won't be happy either and if Cunard are no longer going to excel at anything, I also question how they can continue to charge premium fares? They have been able to charge a premium for "formality" and "tradition" as that is what they excel at. Now, like the refurbishment of the staterooms on QM2 where they renewed everything but then left the old couches in situ, I feel that they are now neither truly "formal" or truly "casual" so therefore aren't going to excel at either! I'm honestly not sure that this half hearted attitude towards everything is good business sense but I stand to be corrected. As someone else has said, they are going to have to change their marketing to reflect the changes - even the afternoon tea can't really be referred to as "traditional" since they stopped providing clotted cream!

[BORDER REIVER]

We have studied the changes and are reasonably happy that we won't need to make too many adjustments to our planned wardrobe for our Queen Elizabeth cruise. I will take one less suit, but my wife is having to re-think her packing a little.
As long as Cunard are happy that they can now enforce their new dress codes, the evenings should still retain much of the glamour and the ambience that they are famous for.
The only problem is that there are always some passengers who see the dress code as a challenge to see how much they can dress down and get away with it and the more the dress code is dumbed down, the more extreme the interpretations of it will be.
If they day ever came where those that dressed up were in the minority and were tutted at by the rest, then we would no longer cruise with Cunard. Benidorm at sea would be our worst nightmare.

[Cruachan]

[quote name='babine']My how things change quickly.


"We do not intend to reduce or dilute either the style or the number of our Formal nights - they remain very important to us and very much enjoyed by our guests. Not sure what happened on the Queen Elizabeth - it may have been on one of the short 2 night voyages to Hamburg. Sometimes for operational reasons our team onboard need to make adjustments as they see best - but please be assured that Cunard Formal is and will be Cunard Formal. Best Regards. Peter"[/quote]

But the point is that he [B]hasn't [/B]changed the formal nights. For those nights the dress code remains the same and, as far as I can tell, the number of formal nights on the average cruise will remain the same too - it had already been significantly, and "silently", reduced anyway. What [B]has [/B]happened is that the strange hybrid form of dress called "semi-formal" has been dropped and the pretentiously named "elegant casual" (a piece of terminological snobbery that always made me cringe) has been renamed "informal".

So the Barbarian hordes aren't exactly hammering at the gates quite yet. Even if they were, I really would have thought that Cunard devotees would have been made of sterner stuff and that the Memsahibs would, by now, be ripping up their ball gowns to make bandages, slaughtering the polo ponies for food*, and organising community singing. This idea that we must all flee to other lines because of the relatively small (and quite rational) changes that have been introduced is, in my humble opinion, silly. Stay with Cunard, defend your personal values, dress up instead of down, and show the marauding armies of itinerant chavs how it [B]should [/B]be done.

J

* - or, in the absence of polo ponies, buying in large supplies of Tesco Value Burgers.

[Fifer]

[quote name='Cruachan']But the point is that he [B]hasn't [/B]changed the formal nights. For those nights the dress code remains the same and, as far as I can tell, the number of formal nights on the average cruise will remain the same too - it had already been significantly, and "silently", reduced anyway. What [B]has [/B]happened is that the strange hybrid form of dress called "semi-formal" has been dropped and the pretentiously named "elegant casual" (a piece of terminological snobbery that always made me cringe) has been renamed "informal".

So the Barbarian hordes aren't exactly hammering at the gates quite yet. Even if they were, I really would have thought that Cunard devotees would have been made of sterner stuff and that the Memsahibs would, by now, be ripping up their ball gowns to make bandages, slaughtering the polo ponies for food*, and organising community singing. This idea that we must all flee to other lines because of the relatively small (and quite rational) changes that have been introduced is, in my humble opinion, silly. Stay with Cunard, defend your personal values, dress up instead of down, and show the marauding armies of itinerant chavs how it [B]should [/B]be done.

J

* - or, in the absence of polo ponies, buying in large supplies of Tesco Value Burgers.[/QUOTE]

Now, that's a much more subtle way to get an upgrade.

[glojo]

[quote name='Cruachan']But the point is that he [B]hasn't [/B]changed the formal nights. For those nights the dress code remains the same and, as far as I can tell, the number of formal nights on the average cruise will remain the same too - it had already been significantly, and "silently", reduced anyway. What [B]has [/B]happened is that the strange hybrid form of dress called "semi-formal" has been dropped and the pretentiously named "elegant casual" (a piece of terminological snobbery that always made me cringe) has been renamed "informal".

So the Barbarian hordes aren't exactly hammering at the gates quite yet. Even if they were, I really would have thought that Cunard devotees would have been made of sterner stuff and that the Memsahibs would, by now, be ripping up their ball gowns to make bandages, slaughtering the polo ponies for food*, and organising community singing. This idea that we must all flee to other lines because of the relatively small (and quite rational) changes that have been introduced is, in my humble opinion, silly. Stay with Cunard, defend your personal values, dress up instead of down, and show the marauding armies of itinerant chavs how it [B]should [/B]be done.

J

* - or, in the absence of polo ponies, buying in large supplies of Tesco Value Burgers.[/quote]As usual you beat me to the draw and I think we really need to study the answers given during tha Q&A as a lot of questions were answered, but in a subtle manner.

I dislike change purely for the sake of it and Cruachan is correct in what he is saying are standards are being 'relaxed' as opposed to how we interpret it as to being lowered?

I am a bit on the slow side and I would ask 'Do I need to pack less clothing as to me I cannot really see a difference in wardrobe, just a renaming and possibly dumping down of standards, or should that be lowering :eek:

Who said relaxing..

Read the answer by Mr Shanks regarding visits to the Falkland Islands.
Cunard may still visit the Falklands BUT they will NOT get involved in International Politics and we hear that America does not recognise the rights of those islanders to self determination!!

Even though in 2014 the Queen Victoria is on a South American cruise it will NOT be visiting those islands and no ships in the Cunard fleet have been to that location this year nor next year! That to me is a great shame and a sell out to those merchant seaman of that company who sadly are still out there.

Mr Shanks
You claim to be proud of the Cunard heritage and yet you cave in to international pressure regarding the Falklands visits and you are dumping down standards on ships that you claim are all about tradition!! Are you desperate for more passengers and see this as a way of attracting them? Have you tried a concerted advertising campaign highlighting the qualities of a line that is steeped in traditions that lots of people still hold very dear?

A more ignorant man would say 'Get a back-bone and stand up for what is right!'

I am not ignorant and will keep my thoughts to myself and YES I am sailing aboard a Cunard ship next year and look forward to 'The Cunard experience'

regards
John