CUNARD "to LOOSEN UP "

[Jim Avery]

Dear Mr Shanks,

 

Crocodile Dundee was a movie, not a documentary. The people you saw in that movie are fictional characters based on stereotypes. Please do not make changes to the dress-code based on the characters in your favourite movie.

 

 

In all seriousness, I have a feeling that Shanks is talking about something that's already happened. During last year's circumnavigation of Oz I was talking to a crew member who mentioned that Cunard had reduced the number of formal nights for the circumnavigation, when compared to a trans-atlantic. This did seem to be the case as there was a lot of semi-formal nights.

 

Shanks has some interesting ideas about what Australian's supposedly want on Cunard voyages. Apparently he's read a 'CliffsNotes' memo on Australia and believes we're some backwater, low-class nation filled with people that do not appreciate the rare occasions in today's world where there is an opportunity to wear tuxedos and gowns. What's next, will they also dumb down the menu and offer burgers and chips in the Britannia Restaurant whilst the ships are in Australian waters?

 

What's weirder is reading posts from other Australians who (for some reason) seem to want to perpetuate the myth that Australians are somehow genetically resistant to wearing nice clothes. Take the below post as an example:

 

 

 

I have no idea what he talking about, it certainly doesn't sound like the Australia I know. I can only assume that he's relaying his personal experiences from social events that he attends.

 

Elsewhere in Australia, people go out to nice restaurants and they generally tip. A lot of Australians also manage to dress well, without looking uncomfortable (aka buying clothes that fit). Furthermore, we know which knife & fork to use at the dinner table, what wine goes best with what food and why it's considered impolite to break wind at the dinner table.

 

Getting back to Shanks, it's certainly a brave move on his part to do away with (or reduce) the main point of difference that Cunard has over other cruise lines. I thought having a unique selling point, that was universally associated with your brand, was a good thing. But apparently not, supposedly you want to do away with those irritating unique selling points to make your product more like the others.

 

Do away with the ambiance that the dress-code provides of an evening and what's Cunard got (apart from QM2) that's so special you'd pay more to sail on a Cunard ship than you would on Celebrity or Holland America? Nothing, that's what.

 

I always thought that movie was about Bazzaw Barry.:eek::D

[bazzaw]

Interesting point about Edward, but the wrong century!

 

I was referring to the debut of the Dinner jacket (by Edward, Prince of Wales) in Victorian times - not it's common acceptance in Edwardian times. Conservatism always follows creative innovation (quite naturally, it cannot precede it) :) .

 

Barry

[bazzaw]

Partial quote

 

Considering the life span of the ship, that's a fairly good guess, regardless of the age of current passengers. But people will still dance; that is a constant. :)

 

Salacia

 

We have now been on 4 different cruiselines- and I believe that the Cunard "balls" are the best attended "dances" we have seen. I don't really know why that is.

 

Barry

[bazzaw]

It will be interesting to see how cruise lines morph to fit the (anticipated) growing cruise market in China. Yup, just follow the money :cool:

 

Having just spent 2 weeks on RCI Voyager of the Seas, one of the first things I noticed on boarding her was the number of Chinese waitstaff crew. All other ships we have been on have had mostly Filipino and Indian staff - with a smattering of European waitstaff on Cunards' ships. This was the very first time we have seen any staff from China -- and it is (apparently) because VOS will spend 6 months of each year cruising out of Australia and the other six months cruising out of "Asia" (aimed at Chinese speaking passengers)

 

Barry

[bazzaw]

An officer on board last year told me that "we bring the age of elegance to those who missed it the first time around". I love QM2 and all she stands for. We all pay a pretty penny to sail Cunard but without the transatlantics and the adhered to dress code, why bother? I, for one, could sail Celebrity and get a lot more trips in (for the same money) rather than waiting for QM2 to make it back to NY a few times a year.

 

I have sailed on QM2 since 2004. So far, I am not sure that the hiring of Mr. Shanks has been positive for the line. My (soon to be) retirement dollars may need to go elsewhere.

 

I adhere to the dress code -- and even enjoy it!! :eek: But for me it is much more than just the dress code - there is a general ambience about the Cunard ships that fits well for me. But even more so, we have sailed on Cunard ships more for the ships themselves -- and I would go on QM2 again just for the ship and for no other reason. In fact, the NEXT time I go on QM2 (did I just say that?? I wonder if my wife heard my thoughts as I type this:o) , I will NOT be taking a Tux or even a suit!! A Jacket and tie will be well enough dressed for my purposes this time

 

Barry

[bazzaw]

 

I can only assume that he's relaying his personal experiences from social events that he attends.

 

I can ONLY convey my own personal experiences - and also ONLY from those social events that I actually attend.

 

I do not make things up, make generalisations from a single experience or theorise about reality - as you are prone to !! :p

 

Barry

[bazzaw]

Yes, but getting the peas to stay on the back of the fork is something I am still mastering.:eek:

 

Jim

 

If you can master the art of using chopsticks, then balancing peas on the back of a fork is easy!! :D

 

Barry

[Thaxted]

I was referring to the debut of the Dinner jacket (by Edward, Prince of Wales) in Victorian times - not it's common acceptance in Edwardian times. Conservatism always follows creative innovation (quite naturally, it cannot precede it) :) .

 

Barry

 

Edward was born in 1894. Victoria died in 1901, so unless Edward was sartorially precocious, we'd have to say that he introduced the dinner jacket in Georgian times, although given the first three Georges even that would be confusing.

[Seago2]

Edward was born in 1894. Victoria died in 1901, so unless Edward was sartorially precocious, we'd have to say that he introduced the dinner jacket in Georgian times, although given the first three Georges even that would be confusing.

 

I can't for the life of me imagine why Cunard would want to loosen things up! This thread might as well be an episode of Downton Abbey.

[Thaxted]

I can't for the life of me imagine why Cunard would want to loosen things up! This thread might as well be an episode of Downton Abbey.

 

And so far none of the characters had been killed off (although the thought has crossed my mind!).

[bazzaw]

Edward was born in 1894. Victoria died in 1901, so unless Edward was sartorially precocious, we'd have to say that he introduced the dinner jacket in Georgian times, although given the first three Georges even that would be confusing.

 

Are we talking about different Edwards?? :D

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_VII

 

And from http://www.blacktieguide.com/

 

 

http://www.blacktieguide.com/History/04-Victorian_Late_Etiquette_&_DJ.htm

The new dining jacket's legitimacy was assured when it was adopted by Queen Victoria’s eldest son, the Prince of Wales, who had a penchant for elegant but comfortable clothes. In 1865 legendary Savile Row tailors Henry Poole & Co. provided the 24-year-old future Edward VII with an early prototype which their Web site explains was worn for informal dinner parties at his Sandringham country estate. According to the company's original ledgers the Prince commissioned "a blue silk smoking jacket" and trousers of a matching fabric.

 

Barry

[Thaxted]

Are we talking about different Edwards?? :D

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_VII

 

And from http://www.blacktieguide.com/

 

 

http://www.blacktieguide.com/History/04-Victorian_Late_Etiquette_&_DJ.htm

The new dining jacket's legitimacy was assured when it was adopted by Queen Victoria’s eldest son, the Prince of Wales, who had a penchant for elegant but comfortable clothes. In 1865 legendary Savile Row tailors Henry Poole & Co. provided the 24-year-old future Edward VII with an early prototype which their Web site explains was worn for informal dinner parties at his Sandringham country estate. According to the company's original ledgers the Prince commissioned "a blue silk smoking jacket" and trousers of a matching fabric.

 

Barry

 

Barry, I stand corrected, not something I easily admit, being a historian by trade! But in my defense I would point out that it was the future Edward VIII who popularized the smoking jacket and thus hastened the virtual demise of white tie and tails.

[keithm]

Yes, but getting the peas to stay on the back of the fork is something I am still mastering.:eek:

I always find dipping the knife into the mashed potatoes first then into the peas works best..Al a "Moe Howard".

[MaggieMM]

I live in a university city and there are many thriving formal-dress hire shops. Formal occasions for younger people are much more popular and frequent that even I realised. I have one tux, my 22 yr old nephew has two (he's a mechanic) and they are well used.

There are enough people who want to dress for the occasion and any traditionally formal cruise line needn't worry about filling their ships.

I reckon most of the people who complain about formality are those who have heard about Cunard and who have booked cheap "taster" short cruises. They want to sample the luxury and the experience, but don't want to contribute to it by being part of it. If Cunard dumbs things down, it will no longer have the attraction it currently does.

 

That is exactly what made me pick Queen Mary 2 for my first ever cruise! I wanted to experience the elegance of a grand ocean liner. I was sooo looking forward to finally boarding her and the formal evenings. Now I don't know whether to make final payment or cancel. If I wanted "come as you are" dining then a 7-day cruise on Carnival is less than half the price of a 5-day cruise on Cunard!

[Lady Hudson]

MaggieMM - try Cunard. I do not think that anyone who is considering Cunard will be happy on Carnival. Is it the 5 day July 1 trip? I have done that trip each year since 2004 - have always had a great time. Katherine

[vjmatty]

That is exactly what made me pick Queen Mary 2 for my first ever cruise! I wanted to experience the elegance of a grand ocean liner. I was sooo looking forward to finally boarding her and the formal evenings. Now I don't know whether to make final payment or cancel. If I wanted "come as you are" dining then a 7-day cruise on Carnival is less than half the price of a 5-day cruise on Cunard!

 

I believe the changes are for 2014, so if you are that close to final payment I am guessing you are on a 2013 voyage and still in traditional mode.

[Seago2]

I am appalled at this new onslaught by Carnival-The feedback from first time cruisers has prompted this headline.What about the loyal Cunarders ?There are plenty of other ships to accomodate people who do not want to dress up-I personally enjoy the special occasions onboard to dress up -it's the reason I book with them as do a lot of others-it's another sign of dumbing down-What next a climbing wall on QE ?

 

Regardless of the usual dress code argument, this time with 99% of posters arguing for more formality and everyone sounding as though high school drama enthusiasts were writing an episode of Downton Abbey, your screen name caused me to ask my English husband WTH a suggabutty is. It sounded vaguely risqué but I figured it was something to eat. White bread with butter and sugar - definitely more suited to coat and tails and long formal gowns than rock climbing on the QE- or EGADS :eek: loosening up of Cunard.

[Cruachan]

And so far none of the characters had been killed off (although the thought has crossed my mind!).

 

Our resident dead cat will be more than happy to provide a list of deserving candidates (although I already know whose name will be at the top of the list) :eek:

 

J

[southwestie]

I can only imagine that Cunard are very worried about head counts, they must fear the news that 21 ships both large and small will be built this year, maybe they want there share of the casual passengers now, sad.

 

However, if they go more informal that wont stop me sailing Cunard ships, maybe Cunard know this as well

[bazzaw]

However, if they go more informal that wont stop me sailing Cunard ships, l

 

G'day Rob

 

There are certainly more reasons to sail with Cunard on their ships than just the formality of dress rules. They have a certain style about them - a certain genteel ambiance that I have not experienced elsewhere - and this is not really for me a result only of people wearing Tuxedos on Formal nights. Many/most people (including me :) ) wore Tuxes on P&O Oriana and Arcadia when we sailed with them -- but those ships, although very nice and enjoyable, did not have Cunard's style.

 

Barry

[balf]

Which other lines are these? I keep hoping, but haven't found another line with formal nights to match Cunard. I know some that used to be, but aren't any more.

 

P&O and Saga.

 

David.

[southwestie]

G'day Rob

 

There are certainly more reasons to sail with Cunard on their ships than just the formality of dress rules. They have a certain style about them - a certain genteel ambiance that I have not experienced elsewhere - and this is not really for me a result only of people wearing Tuxedos on Formal nights. Many/most people (including me :) ) wore Tuxes on P&O Oriana and Arcadia when we sailed with them -- but those ships, although very nice and enjoyable, did not have Cunard's style.

 

Barry

 

 

I fully agree with you, in fact we have done a few 21 nighters and gone to alternative restaurants in a jacket instead, Cunard does have that style and we will continue to sail with them:)

[balf]

, they must fear the news that 21 ships both large and small will be built this year, /QUOTE]

 

Interesting point about large and SMALL. I think the small ship is due a comeback. P &O have the Adonia that used to be Minerva 2. And very pleasant it is, with top rate service and the ability to get to ports the big guys can't.

 

Think of a new Cunarder the size of Caronia. I would be first in line to sail that.

 

David.

[vjmatty]

G'day Rob

 

There are certainly more reasons to sail with Cunard on their ships than just the formality of dress rules. They have a certain style about them - a certain genteel ambiance that I have not experienced elsewhere - and this is not really for me a result only of people wearing Tuxedos on Formal nights. Many/most people (including me :) ) wore Tuxes on P&O Oriana and Arcadia when we sailed with them -- but those ships, although very nice and enjoyable, did not have Cunard's style.

 

Barry

 

That is what I keep saying..... there is so much more to Cunard than the dress code that sets it apart from other lines. If that were not the case, then during the daytime hours you might as well be on any ship.

[Cruachan]

That is what I keep saying..... there is so much more to Cunard than the dress code that sets it apart from other lines. If that were not the case, then during the daytime hours you might as well be on any ship.

 

Totally agree. And I would add that there is also a very great deal more to Cunard than simply QM2 and crossings. There appears to be a prevalent belief in certain sections of the "Cunard community" that QM2 is not only the flagship, but the only ship in the fleet.

 

J