Shadow --- i'll wait for the facts

[chengkp75]

Oh dear- this was all difficult enough without implanting further unpleasant pictures. Sorry (second sorry in 3 posts- I'm not doing well here!)

 

No worries, I've found myself composing one of my techno rants and posting it and finding myself 3 pages behind:p

[bogey]

Maybe if all of us who are SS regulars just ignore these threads about Shadow, they'll just go away. It's an unfortunate occurrence, but things like that sometimes happen. I'm sure SS management is taking action to avoid any future occurrence and that's good enough for me. In all of our many cruises with SS and Radisson/Regent we've never had even a hint of a sanitation issue. And, yes, we have cruised Shadow.

 

Doug,

 

I've thought about your comments and think you make an excellent point. While I find the Shadow news to be very troubling, my experience with Silversea over the past several years has been so positive that I'm willing to believe that this is an aberration that will be dealt with appropriately.

 

Like you, we have never seen any signs of a sanitation problem. And I don't think the overall "culture" of the line could be anything but excellent when I see the amazingly upbeat attitudes of so many crew members on each of the three SS ships we've sailed.

 

Thanks for helping me re-set my attitude.

 

Bogey

[Travelcat2]

Doug,

 

I've thought about your comments and think you make an excellent point. While I find the Shadow news to be very troubling, my experience with Silversea over the past several years has been so positive that I'm willing to believe that this is an aberration that will be dealt with appropriately.

 

Like you, we have never seen any signs of a sanitation problem. And I don't think the overall "culture" of the line could be anything but excellent when I see the amazingly upbeat attitudes of so many crew members on each of the three SS ships we've sailed.

 

Thanks for helping me re-set my attitude.

 

Bogey

 

I must respectfully disagree. Recent reviews reflect the problems that existed on the Shadow. One review thought that the galley buffet looked like a buffet of leftovers. While our two experiences are Silversea have been excellent, it appears that the issues on the Shadow have been there for a few months. As a Regent loyalist, if a Regent ship failed in the way the Shadow has, I would be saying the same thing - even though we have cruised on Regent 15 times and have not had an issue. While I do not suggest abandoning the cruise line, I do feel that they need to do something to instill confidence in their customers. Just my opinion.

[commodoredave]

Maybe if all of us who are SS regulars just ignore these threads about Shadow, they'll just go away. It's an unfortunate occurrence, but things like that sometimes happen. I'm sure SS management is taking action to avoid any future occurrence and that's good enough for me. In all of our many cruises with SS and Radisson/Regent we've never had even a hint of a sanitation issue. And, yes, we have cruised Shadow.

 

I appreciate your sense of loyalty to a cruise line that you have enjoyed over the years. But the inspection report clearly proves that there are serious sanitation and integrity issues on the Shadow, and possibly throughout the SS fleet. Sticking your head in the sand does not make it better, nor does it send the right signal to SS leadership about the improvements they need to make in future.

[MuseCruiser]

Well, times changes, and opinions can change. We have been very loyal SS cruisers--over 200 days, but our last cruise was so disappointing, we went on another luxury line to check them out. My fear is that SS has encountered such dire financial circumstances they are a "shadow" (pun intended) of their former self. Its very unfortunate because they used to be the best of the best and their name was stellar in the cruise world. Not the case anymore.

[billcrooz]

Well, times changes, and opinions can change. We have been very loyal SS cruisers--over 200 days, but our last cruise was so disappointing, we went on another luxury line to check them out. My fear is that SS has encountered such dire financial circumstances they are a "shadow" (pun intended) of their former self. Its very unfortunate because they used to be the best of the best and their name was stellar in the cruise world. Not the case anymore.

 

Could you tell us what was so disappointing that you are so upset!

[MuseCruiser]

Hi Billcrooz

 

I think you've misrepresented my feeling...we weren't "so upset" just disappointed in our experience, compared to SS in the past. We started traveling on SS 2004, and our last cruise was about 3 months ago. Over the years, we noticed a slight but somewhat steady "cost cutting" approach but it was pretty minimal until about a year or so ago. I'd almost say that starting 6-12 months ago, they had a real drop-off in terms of the feeling of luxury. I even had a talk with Paulo, the Hotel Director, about this. The "little things" began to add up. No more cut fresh flowers in the rooms, no more champagne waiting for me on embarkation, no more fresh fruit in the room without requesting it, the hors d'oeuvres were shockingly sad. It used to be that I could go to the pool area in the morning, have my cappuccino, and ask for a bagel and cream cheese, which was always served without question or comment. This time, the waiter looked at me like I was crazy, and told me that was not on the menu by the pool. While true, over the past 9 years, I had never been given that response. One of our group asked if we could have a mexican dinner one night. We were told no, and then given 3 different explanations why this was impossible. Another night, we asked for a Thai dinner, and we were served a Filipino meal (I wonder if it came from the crew mess?). (When we commented that the dishes weren't Thai, the head waiter replied that there were no Thai cooks on the ship, only Filipino staff, so they cooked what they knew. What?) One night we ordered Dover Sole for the following night, and when we arrived at the dining room the following night, no one knew we had ordered this. I complained to the restaurant manager about this, he said he would check into it then never returned to our table. One night in La Terrazza we asked if we could see the maitre d' to request a special order in the main dining room for the following night and he sent the waiter over (he did not even come over) to inform us that we would have to call the main restaurant ourselves. One night one guest asked if he could have pasta carbonara in La Terrazza one night of the cruise and he was told no, that the chef was overwhelmed with just the regular menu.

 

Never in 9 years of sailing SS had we been told "no"--especially time after time. Drinks were confused in the bar night after night (this was always the opposite in the past), and just the cost cutting seemed to add up and up and up. It was so disappointing we made a reservation on Crystal a month later just to try them out and had an amazing experience.

 

This post is not geared to be a rant against SS, but you asked the question, so this is the answer. They seemed to us just a glimmer of what they used to be. For us, it might be time to move on, there are other fish in the sea (sorry, I couldn't resist).

[UKCruiseJeff]

Musecruiser,

 

Very sad to read your post. The tone of it isn't anger but a sort of sad resignation. Almost - dare I say - bereavement?

 

Thanks for posting.

 

Jeff

[Travelcat2]

Hi Billcrooz

 

I think you've misrepresented my feeling...we weren't "so upset" just disappointed in our experience, compared to SS in the past. We started traveling on SS 2004, and our last cruise was about 3 months ago. Over the years, we noticed a slight but somewhat steady "cost cutting" approach but it was pretty minimal until about a year or so ago. I'd almost say that starting 6-12 months ago, they had a real drop-off in terms of the feeling of luxury. I even had a talk with Paulo, the Hotel Director, about this. The "little things" began to add up. No more cut fresh flowers in the rooms, no more champagne waiting for me on embarkation, no more fresh fruit in the room without requesting it, the hors d'oeuvres were shockingly sad. It used to be that I could go to the pool area in the morning, have my cappuccino, and ask for a bagel and cream cheese, which was always served without question or comment. This time, the waiter looked at me like I was crazy, and told me that was not on the menu by the pool. While true, over the past 9 years, I had never been given that response. One of our group asked if we could have a mexican dinner one night. We were told no, and then given 3 different explanations why this was impossible. Another night, we asked for a Thai dinner, and we were served a Filipino meal (I wonder if it came from the crew mess?). (When we commented that the dishes weren't Thai, the head waiter replied that there were no Thai cooks on the ship, only Filipino staff, so they cooked what they knew. What?) One night we ordered Dover Sole for the following night, and when we arrived at the dining room the following night, no one knew we had ordered this. I complained to the restaurant manager about this, he said he would check into it then never returned to our table. One night in La Terrazza we asked if we could see the maitre d' to request a special order in the main dining room for the following night and he sent the waiter over (he did not even come over) to inform us that we would have to call the main restaurant ourselves. One night one guest asked if he could have pasta carbonara in La Terrazza one night of the cruise and he was told no, that the chef was overwhelmed with just the regular menu.

 

Never in 9 years of sailing SS had we been told "no"--especially time after time. Drinks were confused in the bar night after night (this was always the opposite in the past), and just the cost cutting seemed to add up and up and up. It was so disappointing we made a reservation on Crystal a month later just to try them out and had an amazing experience.

 

This post is not geared to be a rant against SS, but you asked the question, so this is the answer. They seemed to us just a glimmer of what they used to be. For us, it might be time to move on, there are other fish in the sea (sorry, I couldn't resist).

 

Your post was very meaningful and I appreciate your writing it. While we have only taken two Silversea cruises (none within the past year), I have read many times that the cut-backs are really showing. You were able to say it all in one paragraph.

 

Sometimes I wonder if Silversea overextended itself financially in recent years when they added new ships. Whatever the reason, they certainly will not become more profitable by the cutbacks they have put in place and certainly not by paying less attention to food quality and storage.

 

In any case, this may be our last Silversea cruise and we have enjoyed the time we have spent aboard their ships (particularly the Whisper -- such a lovely ship).

[commodoredave]

Hi Billcrooz

 

I think you've misrepresented my feeling...we weren't "so upset" just disappointed in our experience, compared to SS in the past. We started traveling on SS 2004, and our last cruise was about 3 months ago. Over the years, we noticed a slight but somewhat steady "cost cutting" approach but it was pretty minimal until about a year or so ago. I'd almost say that starting 6-12 months ago, they had a real drop-off in terms of the feeling of luxury. I even had a talk with Paulo, the Hotel Director, about this. The "little things" began to add up. No more cut fresh flowers in the rooms, no more champagne waiting for me on embarkation, no more fresh fruit in the room without requesting it, the hors d'oeuvres were shockingly sad. It used to be that I could go to the pool area in the morning, have my cappuccino, and ask for a bagel and cream cheese, which was always served without question or comment. This time, the waiter looked at me like I was crazy, and told me that was not on the menu by the pool. While true, over the past 9 years, I had never been given that response. One of our group asked if we could have a mexican dinner one night. We were told no, and then given 3 different explanations why this was impossible. Another night, we asked for a Thai dinner, and we were served a Filipino meal (I wonder if it came from the crew mess?). (When we commented that the dishes weren't Thai, the head waiter replied that there were no Thai cooks on the ship, only Filipino staff, so they cooked what they knew. What?) One night we ordered Dover Sole for the following night, and when we arrived at the dining room the following night, no one knew we had ordered this. I complained to the restaurant manager about this, he said he would check into it then never returned to our table. One night in La Terrazza we asked if we could see the maitre d' to request a special order in the main dining room for the following night and he sent the waiter over (he did not even come over) to inform us that we would have to call the main restaurant ourselves. One night one guest asked if he could have pasta carbonara in La Terrazza one night of the cruise and he was told no, that the chef was overwhelmed with just the regular menu.

 

Never in 9 years of sailing SS had we been told "no"--especially time after time. Drinks were confused in the bar night after night (this was always the opposite in the past), and just the cost cutting seemed to add up and up and up. It was so disappointing we made a reservation on Crystal a month later just to try them out and had an amazing experience.

 

This post is not geared to be a rant against SS, but you asked the question, so this is the answer. They seemed to us just a glimmer of what they used to be. For us, it might be time to move on, there are other fish in the sea (sorry, I couldn't resist).

 

Thanks for your honesty and frankness. We enjoyed our last Silversea cruise and we're planning on sailing with her again in 2014, However, we've cancelled our plans based on the sanitation issues and what we have heard from others on this board. I do hope things improve and get back to normal as there are a few itineraries that we'd rather do with Silversea, including the Galapagos.

[wripro]

Musecruiser,

 

Wilfred, I really appreciate your frank assessment of your last SS cruise. I know what loyal passengers you were and that makes the disappointment all the more severe. I started feeling that way about SS on the last cruise we were on together on the Shadow (no surprise) in Asia in 2006 and though the subsequent cruises on SS have been much better it has never regained the specialness it once had. Of course, all cruise lies have cut back since the recession but imo SS more than the others I have sailed. I hope you find a new home at sea you love.

[Dmgmd50]

Hi Billcrooz

 

I think you've misrepresented my feeling...we weren't "so upset" just disappointed in our experience, compared to SS in the past. We started traveling on SS 2004, and our last cruise was about 3 months ago. Over the years, we noticed a slight but somewhat steady "cost cutting" approach but it was pretty minimal until about a year or so ago. I'd almost say that starting 6-12 months ago, they had a real drop-off in terms of the feeling of luxury. I even had a talk with Paulo, the Hotel Director, about this. The "little things" began to add up. No more cut fresh flowers in the rooms, no more champagne waiting for me on embarkation, no more fresh fruit in the room without requesting it, the hors d'oeuvres were shockingly sad. It used to be that I could go to the pool area in the morning, have my cappuccino, and ask for a bagel and cream cheese, which was always served without question or comment. This time, the waiter looked at me like I was crazy, and told me that was not on the menu by the pool. While true, over the past 9 years, I had never been given that response. One of our group asked if we could have a mexican dinner one night. We were told no, and then given 3 different explanations why this was impossible. Another night, we asked for a Thai dinner, and we were served a Filipino meal (I wonder if it came from the crew mess?). (When we commented that the dishes weren't Thai, the head waiter replied that there were no Thai cooks on the ship, only Filipino staff, so they cooked what they knew. What?) One night we ordered Dover Sole for the following night, and when we arrived at the dining room the following night, no one knew we had ordered this. I complained to the restaurant manager about this, he said he would check into it then never returned to our table. One night in La Terrazza we asked if we could see the maitre d' to request a special order in the main dining room for the following night and he sent the waiter over (he did not even come over) to inform us that we would have to call the main restaurant ourselves. One night one guest asked if he could have pasta carbonara in La Terrazza one night of the cruise and he was told no, that the chef was overwhelmed with just the regular menu.

 

Never in 9 years of sailing SS had we been told "no"--especially time after time. Drinks were confused in the bar night after night (this was always the opposite in the past), and just the cost cutting seemed to add up and up and up. It was so disappointing we made a reservation on Crystal a month later just to try them out and had an amazing experience.

 

This post is not geared to be a rant against SS, but you asked the question, so this is the answer. They seemed to us just a glimmer of what they used to be. For us, it might be time to move on, there are other fish in the sea (sorry, I couldn't resist).

 

I think you really hit the nail on the head. The quality of the food was so poor on our Silver Shadow sailing in January that we actually dreaded going to dinner. Certainly not what we experienced several years before on our previous SS cruise.

[oregon50]

Ahhhhh.....the disgruntled are coming out of the closet to post their real life SS experiences. It was about 2006 when things began heading south

on a course set by management. It has taken this long and this drastic an action for some to realize what this company has been doing.

 

We had a great experience on a fourth quarter 2011 Cloud cruise. It was like the SS of old. In turn, we booked on 4 ships covering 60 days of the first quarter of 2012. Ship after ship, it was a constant let down. Every disappointment could be traced to top level management decisions.

 

We placed an Orion booking after touring their ship in port. They had great itineraries and thought it worth a try. Three weeks later they were sold to Linblad and we cancelled. Linblad kept the deposit.

 

You want something that resembles luxury? Europa.

[commodoredave]

The Europa and Europa 2 from Hapag Lloyd are the best ships at sea.

 

Interesting. Orion is off the list and Europa is now on. I will be checking it out to see what looks good for 2014.

[CanadianKate]

We are very excited about our upcoming visit to Madagascar in 2015 by Crystal as part of our world cruise. ....

 

So far we have been happy with Crystal.

 

I'm glad to hear this as I'm dreading the 'larger' ship. But Crystal was the only one to offer the itinerary I wanted on a 'smaller' ship (the Queens do it but I couldn't face going back to large ships.) My only goal was to get from Sydney or Perth to Capetown but this particular itinerary is so creative that the bits in between all look like a bonus to me instead of something to endure. Despite my current fear of travel, especially back to Africa, I'm very excited about this cruise despite it being so far in the future and me having so much travel before then.

 

I look forward to meeting you after Perth (our embarkation point.)

[UKCruiseJeff]

The quality of the food and service is better than SS,SB and Crystal.

 

Others might not like these ships but great to have the choice if you really want to go up a level.

Prices are reasonably high compared with the other lines.

German efficiency.We would be like that if we had lost the war.:)

 

Thanks.

[Merriem]

Do you know anything about the smoking policy on their ships? Hopefully limited, but you never know

[Tarpeian Rock]

The quality of the food and service is better than SS,SB and Crystal.

 

Others might not like these ships but great to have the choice if you really want to go up a level.

Prices are reasonably high compared with the other lines.

German efficiency.We would be like that if we had lost the war.:)

 

 

 

Yeah, you could enjoy your efficient cruise assuming you didn't mind the smell of the ovens in your nose. What a shockingly offensive comment. To say nothing of the fact that a victorious Third Reich might have had a word or two to say about who would be politically allowed to enjoy a cruise.

[connlach]

I may have misread something but I notice that a Hapag Lloyd ship got a score of 69 from CDC in Nov 2012 so surely that would put anyone off ever wanting to sail with them?

[chengkp75]

I may have misread something but I notice that a Hapag Lloyd ship got a score of 69 from CDC in Nov 2012 so surely that would put anyone off ever wanting to sail with them?

 

While the 69 score is quite a bit lower than the Shadow, have you read the green sheets of the respective reports? About 70% of the violations were either equipment (improper screws, improper markings), documentation, water chlorination control, pool problems, or lack of protection (sneeze guards), similar to many found on the Shadow. The other 28% deals with cleanliness issues. I see only two mentions of food safety; milk dispensers in the officer and crew messes not in temp range, and a time control tag on the milk dispensers of the cappuccino machines.

 

I did not see any evidence where the staff tried to hide things from the inspectors, nor anything that would make the inspectors feel they needed to physically destroy food to prevent its reuse, as found on the Shadow.

 

Most of the MS Columbus 2 violations were minor ones (1-2 points each) which cumulatively added up to the poor score. I don't think even the two food safety violations would be more than 3-4 points each.

 

The hidden food, pans, and equipment found on the Shadow were definitely 5 point deductions.

 

If you look at the green sheets, each "item #" can only be one deduction, no matter how many times the same thing is found, or how many comments the inspectors make regarding the violation.

[connlach]

While the 69 score is quite a bit lower than the Shadow, have you read the green sheets of the respective reports? About 70% of the violations were either equipment (improper screws, improper markings), documentation, water chlorination control, pool problems, or lack of protection (sneeze guards), similar to many found on the Shadow. The other 28% deals with cleanliness issues. I see only two mentions of food safety; milk dispensers in the officer and crew messes not in temp range, and a time control tag on the milk dispensers of the cappuccino machines.

 

I did not see any evidence where the staff tried to hide things from the inspectors, nor anything that would make the inspectors feel they needed to physically destroy food to prevent its reuse, as found on the Shadow.

 

Most of the MS Columbus 2 violations were minor ones (1-2 points each) which cumulatively added up to the poor score. I don't think even the two food safety violations would be more than 3-4 points each.

 

The hidden food, pans, and equipment found on the Shadow were definitely 5 point deductions.

 

If you look at the green sheets, each "item #" can only be one deduction, no matter how many times the same thing is found, or how many comments the inspectors make regarding the violation.

 

But surely a score of 69 is still not good and it included food violations. I find it amazing that people on here are talking them up when they got a lower score but did not mention this. It goes to show you can read into things what you want or comment on things based on your agenda. Sadly perfection in any industry is not guaranteed as a score of 69 proves or a score of 84 on Sea Dream or 81 on Princess. Mistakes will be made by the whole industry.

 

Strange how a huge issue was not made of any of these reports:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5287

 

I am not suggesting Silversea have done nothing wrong and they clearly have to resolve these issues which they have clearly taken steps to do.

[chengkp75]

But surely a score of 69 is still not good and it included food violations. I find it amazing that people on here are talking them up when they got a lower score but did not mention this. It goes to show you can read into things what you want or comment on things based on your agenda. Sadly perfection in any industry is not guaranteed as a score of 69 proves or a score of 84 on Sea Dream or 81 on Princess. Mistakes will be made by the whole industry.

 

Strange how a huge issue was not made of any of these reports:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5287

 

I am not suggesting Silversea have done nothing wrong and they clearly have to resolve these issues which they have clearly taken steps to do.

 

Still can't agree with you. While any failing score is not good, it is the tenor of the Shadow report that is disturbing.

 

Yes, the Columbus had "food violations", but did you see what they were? The milk in the crew messes were found in the 44-45*F temperature range, rather than the required 41*F range (would you know if your refrigerator at home was keeping dairy at 41*F? The Shadow had milk and cheese found in non-refrigerated crew cabins. Doesn't this show a vast difference in severity of the infraction?

 

Generally, failing scores are noticed on the boards, and then goes away as the ship is reinspected. What has caused the furor here is what the USPH states as an "organized effort to remove ... in order to avoid inspection". Yes, mistakes are made by the whole industry, but this was not a "mistake" on the part of the Shadow management, it was deliberate. By no means are any ship perfect, but from my experience in the industry, this is an incident unique to Silversea.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Still can't agree with you. While any failing score is not good, it is the tenor of the Shadow report that is disturbing.

 

Yes, the Columbus had "food violations", but did you see what they were? The milk in the crew messes were found in the 44-45*F temperature range, rather than the required 41*F range (would you know if your refrigerator at home was keeping dairy at 41*F? The Shadow had milk and cheese found in non-refrigerated crew cabins. Doesn't this show a vast difference in severity of the infraction?

 

Generally, failing scores are noticed on the boards, and then goes away as the ship is reinspected. What has caused the furor here is what the USPH states as an "organized effort to remove ... in order to avoid inspection". Yes, mistakes are made by the whole industry, but this was not a "mistake" on the part of the Shadow management, it was deliberate. By no means are any ship perfect, but from my experience in the industry, this is an incident unique to Silversea.

 

 

You know that you are losing an argument whe you have to stoop to using common sense .....:D

[connlach]

You know that you are losing an argument whe you have to stoop to using common sense .....:D

 

Especially if it ignores the actual facts or goes against an agenda........

[chengkp75]

C'mon guys, lets back off from the personal attacks, and not let this degenerate to a Carnival hater thread. If someone is firm in their beliefs, that is fine with me, and I will continue to present my firmly held beliefs. No problem.