Why Ban e-Cigarettes?

[MMOMOM]

Nicotine is a drug and it does create a "high." Do you really not know this?

 

As for the FDA, they are not yet fully involved because these companies refuse to submit for testing. Gosh, golly, I wonder why?

 

Please do not talk down to me or insult me, thank you, regarding your crack, 'do you really not know this?'....again, not nice.:( And, you're wrong as far as I know regarding the FDA from what I've read. It's really all about taxable income, not safety, when you get right down to is. They tested 18 cigs from 2 companies and found a trace of something in only 1, coming to the conclusion that one was a defect. Either way, in the 'real' world things are different than on a board without faces. Really doesn't matter. I'm certainly not arguing any point regarding the e-cig itself, safety or otherwise ... just the way you people carry on ... if it isn't one thing it's another!:eek: You got your non-smoking, try and be content with that instead of creating more problems! :)

[mm1251]

I enjoy e-cigs occasionally when we vacation (I quit smoking 20 years ago or so). It is a fun way to be oh so bad! They are water vapor, but some have slight odors (smoke one in a car with the windows up around honest non-smokers and they can fill you in). The flavored e-cigs are the ones that you can smell the most. Vanilla, cherry, etc. I can understand the ban based on that plus the impression that it is a real cigarette. Militant, Larry Hagman-esq non-smokers will complain until THEY can't breath when they see you puff away inside. As a company, you just don't want to deal with that.

 

I am sure e-cig smokers will just smile and keep smoking away in the cabin, on the balcony, in the bathroom . . . no one will ever know.

[mn1111]

Seeing your source as being the FDA discredits your post immediately. The tobacco companies keep them well compensated to be sure any and all findings will not affect the real tobacco industry.

 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Forums mobile app

 

This is 100% correct. The tobacco lobby is one of the most powerful (and nastiest) in the country with very deep pockets. They have bought off a high number of congress members along with with their friends at the FDA. It is very much in their interest that e-cigs gain as little market share as possible and they will spend whatever it takes to make sure of it.

[lovetocruiserccl]

Good points by the OP. But another reason to ban e-cigarettes is the fact that they mimic real cigarettes.

 

As smoking is becoming "unacceptable" in the collective conscience of our society, an activity that looks almost like smoking will also be perceived to be unacceptable, even if the arguments against it are weak.

 

Essentially it is an emotional reaction to ban them - but a completely understandable one which will affect only a minority of people. They can always use patches or gum if in a tight spot.

 

How easy it is to find solutions for individuals who are addicted to a substance. Patches and gum. Being a minority is so very hard.

 

 

Love To Cruise RCCL

[Justcat]

Okay I've read this whole thread now and while I agree that e-cigarettes are less annoying than the average variety I will say after living with e-cig smokers for three months you CAN smell them! Every time I was in the car with them the little "whiffs" of scent (some pleasant some not so much) would drift into my seat. I honestly had to quit riding with them because some of the concoctions they used gave me terrible headaches.

[Paul65]

Please do not talk down to me or insult me, thank you, regarding your crack, 'do you really not know this?'....again, not nice.:(

 

 

I think you are just over-sensitive, when people point out to you that some of your information is wrong. I certainly wasn't trying to be unpleasant, when I first responded to you saying that some of what you believed about e-cigs was based on common misconceptions. But you claimed that I "just wanted to jump right down your throat with my ideas ...."

 

Just a suggestion, but you should be a little more open to the idea that you are not always right about everything. That's my opinion, even though you've already shown that you are not really interested in other people's opinions. :cool:

[MMOMOM]

I think you are just over-sensitive, when people point out to you that some of your information is wrong. I certainly wasn't trying to be unpleasant, when I first responded to you saying that some of what you believed about e-cigs was based on common misconceptions. But you claimed that I "just wanted to jump right down your throat with my ideas ...."

 

Just a suggestion, but you should be a little more open to the idea that you are not always right about everything. That's my opinion, even though you've already shown that you are not really interested in other people's opinions. :cool:

 

I told you I was done with this conversation with you, but seems you might want to take MY suggestion and check the mirror instead of the microscope. You are STILL telling me what I am and what I am not, what I think and what I don't, what I'm interested in and what I'm not ... just because my opinion differs from yours. That's not even a discussion, it's bullying! I feel like I'm talking to a child ... one with not very good manners at that. Now let it go!

[Camlott]

Anyone worried about second hand exposure from an ecig should be avoiding the show lounge. The ingredients used to make the fog for the shows are the same as an ecig minus the nicotine and flavorings. Although many of the fog juices used will contain a scent which is basically the equivalent to the flavoring in ecig juices.

 

Guess what... No long term studies have been done regarding the safety of these fog machines either. I can guarantee you if you sit in a show for an hour, you are getting way more exposure than you could ever possibly get sitting on your balcony!

 

http://www.uic.edu/sph/glakes/harts1/HARTS_library/smokefog.txt

[Paul65]

I told you I was done with this conversation with you, but seems you might want to take MY suggestion and check the mirror instead of the microscope. You are STILL telling me what I am and what I am not, what I think and what I don't, what I'm interested in and what I'm not ... just because my opinion differs from yours. That's not even a discussion, it's bullying! I feel like I'm talking to a child ... one with not very good manners at that. Now let it go!

 

If you're done with this conversation, you don't have to reply, but I will keep replying, if you keep trying to lecture me on niceness, while the theme of most of your posts has been to insult everyone with a different opinion than your own, accusing them of just wanting to have something to complain about. (Then feigning innocence and making trite statements about how we should all just get along.) You have posted ugly stuff all through the thread, starting with accusing me of "jumping down your throat" just because I corrected you on something. I think you may even agree, now, that you were initially wrong about things like e-cigs only putting out "water vapor," Even though you were smugly insulting me for suggesting so initially.

 

I'm OK with looking in the mirror. I don't think I've posted anything wrong or that I'm ashamed of having said, though I understand that my writing style can sometimes come off as being a bit smug, as well. Are you willing to look in the mirror an admit that you've been rather condescending toward those whose opinions are different from your own? Believe it or not, the majority of people who complain about smoking really are bothered by smoking and are not just looking for something to complain about. But this thread was not intended to be a complaint session about e-cigs, and with a couple exceptions, it hasn't been. So why the need to make digs about "the complainers" over and over in your posts?

[estoyer]

Wow!

[Paul65]

Anyone worried about second hand exposure from an ecig should be avoiding the show lounge. The ingredients used to make the fog for the shows are the same as an ecig minus the nicotine and flavorings. Although many of the fog juices used will contain a scent which is basically the equivalent to the flavoring in ecig juices.

 

Guess what... No long term studies have been done regarding the safety of these fog machines either. I can guarantee you if you sit in a show for an hour, you are getting way more exposure than you could ever possibly get sitting on your balcony!

 

http://www.uic.edu/sph/glakes/harts1/HARTS_library/smokefog.txt

 

The article lists glycol fogs (which would be similar to vapor from e-cigs) as one of several types of theatrical fogs. The others would be very different from e-cig vapor. One of the downsides to using the glycol fogs, by the way, is that they can coat stage surfaces and make them slippery. So many theaters avoid them for that reason. (I doubt the small amount from an e-cig would create any significant slipping hazard, though.)

 

But the article concludes with information about what type of respirators to use to avoid breathing each of the different types of fog, so it didn't leave a comforting feeling.

 

 

Edit: As a P.S. - I'm not really trying to pass myself off as an expert in theatrical fog machines, but I do happen to have a sister who's in the theater industry, which is why I know a little bit about them. She's the one who once told me about the problems with glycerine or glycol type fogs. The actors definitely don't like them.

[MMOMOM]

If you're done with this conversation, you don't have to reply, but I will keep replying, if you keep trying to lecture me on niceness, while the theme of most of your posts has been to insult everyone with a different opinion than your own, accusing them of just wanting to have something to complain about. (Then feigning innocence and making trite statements about how we should all just get along.) You have posted ugly stuff all through the thread, starting with accusing me of "jumping down your throat" just because I corrected you on something. I think you may even agree, now, that you were initially wrong about things like e-cigs only putting out "water vapor," Even though you were smugly insulting me for suggesting so initially.

 

I'm OK with looking in the mirror. I don't think I've posted anything wrong or that I'm ashamed of having said, though I understand that my writing style can sometimes come off as being a bit smug, as well. Are you willing to look in the mirror an admit that you've been rather condescending toward those whose opinions are different from your own? Believe it or not, the majority of people who complain about smoking really are bothered by smoking and are not just looking for something to complain about. But this thread was not intended to be a complaint session about e-cigs, and with a couple exceptions, it hasn't been. So why the need to make digs about "the complainers" over and over in your posts?

 

Done deal Paul ....

[Camlott]

But the article concludes with information about what type of respirators to use to avoid breathing each of the different types of fog, so it didn't leave a comforting feeling.

 

 

Edit: As a P.S. - I'm not really trying to pass myself off as an expert in theatrical fog machines, but I do happen to have a sister who's in the theater industry, which is why I know a little bit about them. She's the one who once told me about the problems with glycerine or glycol type fogs. The actors definitely don't like them.

 

I guess my real point is that just like we don't know the true safety/danger of ecig's (specifically second hand exposure)... The same can be said of theatrical fog machines which I view as nothing more than an ecig on steroids! They both operate the same, just with different scales/purposes of use.

 

In general, I have not ever heard complaints or concerns about the use of fog machines from passengers. The fog does sometimes irritate my throat if its exceptionally heavy, so I suppose asthma sufferers would be even more affected. That being said, I haven't ever worried about my health because of an hour long show though.

[cruisegirl1]

The couple at the table next to ours on our August 2013 Enchantment cruise were smoking some sort of E cigs (actually the product that looks like a pen), in the MDR at dinner. Either the staff did not see it - or decided not to say anything.

 

M

[Charles4515]

I guess my real point is that just like we don't know the true safety/danger of ecig's (specifically second hand exposure)... The same can be said of theatrical fog machines which I view as nothing more than an ecig on steroids! They both operate the same, just with different scales/purposes of use.

 

In general, I have not ever heard complaints or concerns about the use of fog machines from passengers. The fog does sometimes irritate my throat if its exceptionally heavy, so I suppose asthma sufferers would be even more affected. That being said, I haven't ever worried about my health because of an hour long show though.

 

Fog machines and their use has nothing to do with cruise line policy on e-cigs. That is creating a diversion. But fog machines don't have nicotine do they? So they are not e-cigs on steroids. If Fog Machines do have harmful chemicals they should not be used.

[BillOh]

They wouldn't be first. Princess allows ecigs everywhere on their ships except Theatre and MDR.

 

 

That should include elevators as well, I consider using them in confined areas like sneezing without covering your mouth.

[Camlott]

Fog machines and their use has nothing to do with cruise line policy on e-cigs. That is creating a diversion. But fog machines don't have nicotine do they? So they are not e-cigs on steroids. If Fog Machines do have harmful chemicals they should not be used.

 

I'm not trying to create a diversion. A fog machine and ecig are the SAME thing and use the SAME ingredients! The only differece is an ecig adds nicotine and is obviously a extremely miniature version of a fog machine. :rolleyes:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatrical_smoke_and_fog

[Charles4515]

I'm not trying to create a diversion. A fog machine and ecig are the SAME thing and use the SAME ingredients! The only differece is an ecig adds nicotine and is obviously a extremely miniature version of a fog machine. :rolleyes:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatrical_smoke_and_fog

 

Fog machines are not nicotine delivery devices. They are not e-cigs. E- Cigs are not made to create fog. They are made to deliver nicotine. They are not the same thing. I don't see any purpose to discussing fog machines when the discussion is about why cruise lines restrict e-cigarettes.

[reney313]

I'm not trying to create a diversion. A fog machine and ecig are the SAME thing and use the SAME ingredients! The only differece is an ecig adds nicotine and is obviously a extremely miniature version of a fog machine. :rolleyes:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatrical_smoke_and_fog

 

Agreed. And to my knowledge, the nicotine in the ecig is consumed by the user and not exhaled.

 

I will have to go back to all my research when I first decided to buy an ecig. I researched for months and months (obsessively, like I do on CC when cruising!).

 

Funny enough, there are many household items that people use (like air sanitizers) that contain the same glycol. For people not directly using the ecig, I don't think breathing any of vapor will hurt them more than what they breathe in from the air sanitizer in their bathroom, or windex while cleaning.

 

http://scorecard.goodguide.com/chemical-profiles/pesticides.tcl?edf_substance_id=57-55-6

 

And here is a study of it being used in common household/commercial items:

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jam.2007.0626

[Camlott]

Fog machines are not nicotine delivery devices. They are not e-cigs. E- Cigs are not made to create fog. They are made to deliver nicotine. They are not the same thing. I don't see any purpose to discussing fog machines when the discussion is about why cruise lines restrict e-cigarettes.

 

I will concede that I veered slightly off the original topic of this thread and for that I apologize to OP.

 

I believe that the reason RCI lumped ecig's into the new restrictions was because they took the easy route. I also believe that the new restrictions will have no long term effect on the profits of the company so in their minds why try and wade through the issue's of ecig's.

 

I will still cruise with RCI, but I am disappointed that they chose a tighter policy to begin with unlike the approach that Princess chose to try regarding ecig's. Policies can and will be modified, but rarely will they ever loosen the policy. I just wish they had given themselves a little more room to change the policy until after they saw if there was a problem allowing ecig's on balconies. They pretty much boxed themselves into never allowing them.

[Paul65]

I will still cruise with RCI, but I am disappointed that they chose a tighter policy to begin with unlike the approach that Princess chose to try regarding ecig's. Policies can and will be modified, but rarely will they ever loosen the policy. I just wish they had given themselves a little more room to change the policy until after they saw if there was a problem allowing ecig's on balconies. They pretty much boxed themselves into never allowing them.

 

I wouldn't be too pessimistic about it. They did recently loosen the alcohol policy and begin allowing a limited amount of wine to be brought on. So, there is precedence for going from strict to more permissive. As more and more information comes out about e-cigarettes, they may decide to loosen up a bit in the future. I could see them starting to allow in-cabin use, for instance, where it would not even be observed by other passengers, and I don't think an e-cig would leave the kind of residue requiring extra cleaning that tobacco smoke does.

[Camlott]

I wouldn't be too pessimistic about it. They did recently loosen the alcohol policy and begin allowing a limited amount of wine to be brought on. So, there is precedence for going from strict to more permissive. As more and more information comes out about e-cigarettes, they may decide to loosen up a bit in the future. I could see them starting to allow in-cabin use, for instance, where it would not even be observed by other passengers, and I don't think an e-cig would leave the kind of residue requiring extra cleaning that tobacco smoke does.

 

Good point... But that was something that a majority were fighting for. Not likely to be the case for ecig's. Can you imagine the blowback that would happen when the headlines read "RCI decides to loosen it's smoking policy"? :eek: I appreciate your optimism though!

 

In the mean time, I'll be forced to be a rule breaker. (Putting on my flame retardant suit now)

[babyher]

I know there are many different brands of E cigs out there and I am not familiar with all of them. But the ones I have actually seen people use are longer than a regular cigarette , black ( kind of looks like a ladies mascara and when you inhale it flashes a blue light and you exhale the slightest amount of vapor that quickly disapates .

 

Its a real stretch to confuse one of those for an actual cigarette

[baycruiser]

Smoked 2 packs / day for ten years. Chest X-ray for bruised rib... You couldn't even see the bones.

 

Used e cig for two years. Got another X-ray, and doc says I have the lungs of a non-smoker. If I didn't switch to a PV, then I probably would have emphysema by now.

 

I am not addicted to nicotine -- it was one of the 500 other chemicals in the cigarettes.

 

I make my own liquids because I want to know my own ingredients, and I use vegetable glycol. It is nowhere comparable to cigarette, pipe, or cigar smoking at all, and I resent that I am being forced to be around smokers to use my PV. I have no problem not using it on public areas, but my own balcony and stateroom? That's a little nuts.

[celle]

Smoked 2 packs / day for ten years. Chest X-ray for bruised rib... You couldn't even see the bones.

 

Used e cig for two years. Got another X-ray, and doc says I have the lungs of a non-smoker. If I didn't switch to a PV, then I probably would have emphysema by now.

 

I am not addicted to nicotine -- it was one of the 500 other chemicals in the cigarettes.

 

I make my own liquids because I want to know my own ingredients, and I use vegetable glycol. It is nowhere comparable to cigarette, pipe, or cigar smoking at all, and I resent that I am being forced to be around smokers to use my PV. I have no problem not using it on public areas, but my own balcony and stateroom? That's a little nuts.

 

Thank you. I agree.

 

After being a smoker for over 50 years, my DH is now a non-smoker, thanks to e-cigs. He does not want to be banished to use his e-cigs in areas where he will inhale second-hand smoke from the real cigarettes, so he'll discretely confine his e-cig use to our cabin and balcony, where no anti-smoking zealots will even know.

 

DH went through numerous attempts to stop smoking, using patches, gum, pills (doctor-prescribed), hypnosis and acupuncture - all without success. Smoking is a nasty habit, but it is also an incredibly hard addiction to defeat. It is not simply a matter of using will-power, gum or patches.

 

The internet is full of information and misinformation about e-cigarettes. Choose your point of view and you will easily be able to find supporting "evidence" for it.

 

I'm happy because of this:

E-cigarettes - possible, small risk, unproven and not documented by any credible authority.

Real cigarettes - known risks to user and others, proven and documented by multiple, credible authorities.