Is Carnival Corp setting up CCL to be a feeder into their other cruise lines

[Keel Haul]

IMO CCL is near the end of its shelf life. It is being prepped for sale to the Chinese for sole use in their waters.

[Lace]

IMO CCL is near the end of its shelf life. It is being prepped for sale to the Chinese for sole use in their waters.

 

Which would make more sense they want a step program into their better products now, to get a taste.

[Retiringworkingstiff]

Which would make more sense they want a step program into their better products now, to get a taste.

You both are kidding right?

 

(1) Vista being built as we speak.

(2) Check the prices of real estate in Shanghai, Beijing, I doubt people over there want lower end products.

[Aplmac]

You both are kidding right?

 

(1) Vista being built as we speak.

(2) Check the prices of real estate in Shanghai, Beijing, I doubt people over there want lower end products.

Selling off their eight older, smaller Fantasy Class boats to the Chinese

would make the remaining Carnival fleet look quite nice!

 

If/when that ever happened, the fleet would look Modern

with Destiny/Sunshine being their oldest/smallest ship.

See

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Cruises

for a fairly good line-up of the whole Carnival fleet.

 

.

[Retiringworkingstiff]

Selling off their eight older, smaller Fantasy Class boats to the Chinese

would make the remaining Carnival fleet look quite nice!

 

If/when that ever happened, the fleet would look Modern

with Destiny/Sunshine being their oldest/smallest ship.

See

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Cruises

for a fairly good line-up of the whole Carnival fleet.

 

.

Not sure if you understanding, you don't "dump" your old "boats" onto the Chinese!

 

Have you been to Shanghai or Beijing, not to mentioned Hong Kong? Tons of rich folks there, in case you haven't heard.

[CruzCrazy]

You know, I don't understand why everyone is so down on Carnival. On carnival, with the way their pricing is now, you are paying 70-80% of the price you would pay to go on another mass market ship. What makes you think that you are going to get the same quality as RCI when you pay only 80% of what you pay on RCI. Not going to happen ! As it is everywhere with everything these days, you get what you pay for!

 

I just priced our annual December cruise (having just sailed Glory last month--already in planning mode for 2014). After sailing on Carnival exclusively 10 times, I checked out a promo e-mail from RCI and found that the two of us can sail of Oasis of the Seas for about $350 LESS than the Breeze for the same week in Dec. 2014. That difference in price comes from a WOW sale (OBC) and a police/firefighter/EMT discount on Oasis, but money is money. Granted, the Oasis is 7 days and the Breeze is 8, but when you do the math and calculate price per day, the Oasis is still $13 per day cheaper than the Breeze. I had always assumed that we would pay 25%-30% more on RCI, but sometimes it pays to actually put in your dates and check it out for yourself.

 

Having been loyal to Carnival for so long and becoming platinum, here I am wondering "why not?" when it comes to trying RCI.

 

We have never had a bad Cruise on Carnival and had more or less decided on the Breeze next, but we don't particularly like where they are going with these new menus, and for the last couple of cruises we have been walking along the promenade at night wondering what to do...piano bar not hopping, comedy club not open a couple of nights, stopped into the playlist production show and heard one of the lead singers butchering a song--so as usual we were relegated back to the casino to find any fun.

 

I still think Carnival offers a decent product (though not as good as it once was), and we will probably be back, but the door has been opened for us to at least check out the competition, especially when we can do it for LESS money overall. Although my circumstance is probably the exception and not the rule when it comes to price, we may find we like it and decide at this stage RCI is worth the extra money in the future.

 

If Carnival's business model is to get first-time cruisers and then filter them to their more upscale lines, I agree with other posters who've implied they'd better be careful. RCI is out there waiting.

[dshefter]

I have sailed a variety of cruise lines and you do notice little differences. The nicest ship I have been on was the NCL Pearl. Very modern. Had lots of amenities, including a cigar lounge. Had bowling alleys. Food was better than expected, but they basically want to steer you to the specialty restaurants.

 

Thought the Coral Princess had the best food. It was a very nice ship, but definitely catered to an adult crowd. Itinerary had a lot to do with it (Panama Canal).

 

Took my first Carnival Cruise in 26 years in December of 2012. Pleasantly surprised by the Dream. Food was good. Service was good. Yes, Carnival tries to nickel and dime you with photos/drinks/etc., but it's no different than Princess or NCL.

 

We're not huge drinkers so our bar bills are never that crazy. Plus, I find a way to bring some scotch onboard.

 

My beef with Carnival is no cigar lounge. How about a nice lounge for people to enjoy a cigar after dinner. Princess and NCL both offer.

 

And I don't think Carnival's ships are as modern as let's say Royal Caribbean or NCL. The new RCL ships look pretty cool. Haven't sailed on any of them, but you don't see Carnival building similar ships.

 

As far as pricing, I haven't noticed huge differences unless it's one of the fancy ships (Oasis of the Seas, NCL Breakaway or Epic).

 

I refuse to sail Disney. I am not going to pay double the price for a cruise. I am sorry. You can do two cruises on NCL, CCL, RCI or even X for the price of one Disney Cruise.

 

But I have yet to go on a cruise that I came back with a bad taste. Sure the lines do things that might aggravate us: prices for photos and other services, but you learn to adjust. Nobody says you have to buy the photos. Heck, my wife takes better pictures most of the time.

 

The nice thing is we have choices on cruise lines.

[Lace]

Not sure if you understanding, you don't "dump" your old "boats" onto the Chinese!

 

Have you been to Shanghai or Beijing, not to mentioned Hong Kong? Tons of rich folks there, in case you haven't heard.

 

They must not mind. The old Carnival Jubilee is currently sailing over there as the Henna. Did anyone tell those rich folk it's an old whale tailer?

[Aplmac]

They must not mind.

The old Carnival Jubilee is currently sailing over there as the Henna.

Did anyone tell those rich folk it's an old whale tailer?

And the old Carnival Celebration is sailing for IberoCruises in Spain.

 

If a Chinese businessman gets a good deal on the lot of them

they'll get spruced up at dry dock and no one will know or care.

 

 

Duzn't matter who buys them, just move the old things

and freshen up the image of your fleet!

 

.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Aplmac

[Retiringworkingstiff]

They must not mind. The old Carnival Jubilee is currently sailing over there as the Henna. Did anyone tell those rich folk it's an old whale tailer?

Let's not get into a fight here ...

 

Henna? Yes, it's there, $700/person tops.

 

Your definition of rich and mine seems to be quite different.

 

Bye!

[Sparky2]

Haven't read this thread in it's entirety, but would like to share this thought.

 

Other cruise lines share their loyalty program across the lines. I really wish CCL would do the same. We have over 50 cruises beween Carnival and Princess. Elite on Princess and a few days short for Diamond on Carnival. Each cruise line is different, but both have good points.

 

Maybe if the lines shared the loyalty, cruisers would be encouraged to try the other lines under the CCL umbrella.

 

Shirley

 

I know we would then try other CCL brands.

[Retiringworkingstiff]

And the old Carnival Celebration is sailing for IberoCruises in Spain.

 

If a Chinese businessman gets a good deal on the lot of them

they'll get spruced up at dry dock and no one will know or care.

 

 

Duzn't matter who buys them, just move the old things

and freshen up the image of your fleet!

 

.

LOL!

 

Yes, it better be the whole lot and a super deal at that.

 

Just a few ships/boats here and there, wasting their time.

 

I know, I deal with them regularly at a business level.

[Lace]

Let's not get into a fight here ...

 

Henna? Yes, it's there, $700/person tops.

 

Your definition of rich and mine seems to be quite different.

 

Bye!

 

That's quite a bargain. The rich can get a good deal. Putting the Fantasy fleet would be an improvement. In addition to an additional 22,000 GWT.

 

What size ships do the rich currently cruise on?

[Retiringworkingstiff]

That's quite a bargain. The rich can get a good deal. Putting the Fantasy fleet would be an improvement. In addition to an additional 22,000 GWT.

 

What size ships do the rich currently cruise on?

OK Lace, I said Bye but you sound like a reasonable person to talk to.

 

I am sort of hijacking the thread but here we go …

 

- Over the last say 10 years, the economy has begun to take shape in China. They now have the very poor (say about 85% of the population); the so called middle class (say 14.8% of the population); the rich (0.15% of the population) and the really rich (.05% of the population).

 

- The very poor … no further discussion required.

 

- The Middle Class, forget it, most of them still feel VERY insecure. Chinese are traditionally big savers, the MC saves, saves, saves. Taking a cruise, USD $4,000 for a family of 4? No way, that’s only for the rich!

 

- The Rich, net worth say USD$50 Million and up. Those people want to accumulate more wealth. Again, feeling insecure, they still think they need to look after the family for the next 3 generations. To get further ahead, on top of knowing what you are doing, you need to flaunt your wealth. That, unfortunately, has been and still is, the Chinese way. CCL, HAL, RCI i.e. mass market stuff … not going to cut it. They will be looked down upon by their business friends, end of relationships.

 

- The RR, net worth in the billions (USD), they don’t cruise like you and I. They have their own yacht(s), complete with servants.

 

Mass market cruise products are for the future Middle Class over there, when will they be ready? In 15 years, if they are lucky!

 

So, I doubt dumping old ships/boats to them would work, not at this time. They are not interested, doesn’t make economic sense, the MC is not ready.

 

Chinese are huge gamblers, including most that are considered middle class. RCI sent the Mariner over there I believe sometime in 2013. During the Singapore to Hong Kong inaugural cruise, I understand they removed many slot machines and replaced them with baccarat tables. Baccarat is 50-50 chance (so I’ve been told). Dumping old ships/boats over there, only if someone is interested to turn them into high octane casinos at sea, but that’s a different industry all together. Case in point, there is this little place called Macau, 45 minutes from Hong Kong by speed boat, a few casinos over there, yes, MGM, Sands etc. Annual turnover in gambling far exceeds Vegas, that happened more than a few moons ago.

 

Now I am just talking China mainly, other Far East countries, very similar in spending habits.

 

Hope you know why I said I don’t want to get into any arguments, it’s just a very different world/culture over there. It is what it is! Big $$$s for sure.

[EZ4]

This has been covered before. Either you do or someone close to you does. No non-employee would beat the drum as hard as you do.

 

He's 20 something and has been cruising on his parents dime. ;)

[gpnfish]

I just priced our annual December cruise (having just sailed Glory last month--already in planning mode for 2014). After sailing on Carnival exclusively 10 times, I checked out a promo e-mail from RCI and found that the two of us can sail of Oasis of the Seas for about $350 LESS than the Breeze for the same week in Dec. 2014. That difference in price comes from a WOW sale (OBC) and a police/firefighter/EMT discount on Oasis, but money is money. Granted, the Oasis is 7 days and the Breeze is 8, but when you do the math and calculate price per day, the Oasis is still $13 per day cheaper than the Breeze. I had always assumed that we would pay 25%-30% more on RCI, but sometimes it pays to actually put in your dates and check it out for yourself.

 

Having been loyal to Carnival for so long and becoming platinum, here I am wondering "why not?" when it comes to trying RCI.

 

We have never had a bad Cruise on Carnival and had more or less decided on the Breeze next, but we don't particularly like where they are going with these new menus, and for the last couple of cruises we have been walking along the promenade at night wondering what to do...piano bar not hopping, comedy club not open a couple of nights, stopped into the playlist production show and heard one of the lead singers butchering a song--so as usual we were relegated back to the casino to find any fun.

 

I still think Carnival offers a decent product (though not as good as it once was), and we will probably be back, but the door has been opened for us to at least check out the competition, especially when we can do it for LESS money overall. Although my circumstance is probably the exception and not the rule when it comes to price, we may find we like it and decide at this stage RCI is worth the extra money in the future.

.

 

 

Hey Cruz Crazy!

 

I don't think you will be disappointed on RCI. Honestly, that's our favorite cruise line. Out of our 20 trips we have been with them the most.

 

We paid about $750 pp for a balcony on Dream and I could not come anywhere close to that for an RCI's Freedom of the seas balcony . Around $300 pp more if I remember correctly. For a quick-planned getaway I just couldn't justify it, not even with our Emerald Discount. Didn't look at Oasis or Allure very much. Their balconies are even pricier yet and that is for one looking down on onside of ship.

 

Maybe your pricing is for ocean views or insides. A lot closer between the cruiselines on that category.

 

Anyway- Enjoy your Cruise!

[cjknox]

He's 20 something and has been cruising on his parents dime. ;)

 

Sorry to burst you little bubble EZ4 but I'm not in my 20s, I don't know where you got that from? :confused:

[CruzCrazy]

Hey Cruz Crazy!

 

I don't think you will be disappointed on RCI. Honestly, that's our favorite cruise line. Out of our 20 trips we have been with them the most.

 

We paid about $750 pp for a balcony on Dream and I could not come anywhere close to that for an RCI's Freedom of the seas balcony . Around $300 pp more if I remember correctly. For a quick-planned getaway I just couldn't justify it, not even with our Emerald Discount. Didn't look at Oasis or Allure very much. Their balconies are even pricier yet and that is for one looking down on onside of ship.

 

Maybe your pricing is for ocean views or insides. A lot closer between the cruiselines on that category.

 

Anyway- Enjoy your Cruise!

 

The crazy thing is those prices are both for balconies--a lido deck midship balcony on the Breeze and a 5D midship oceanview balcony on the Oasis. I couldn't believe the nice police/fire/EMT discount on the Oasis for that particular sailing and category (they had a much smaller discount on the central park and boardwalk balconies and none for the outsides and interiors for the 2 cruises we looked at), and I even called RCI to make sure the WOW OBC was combinable, and they assured me it was. Admittedly, I can get ES on the Breeze and lock in any price drops all the way until 2 days before departure, but at least I found out that RCI will honor price drops until final payment due date...

 

We haven't booked the Oasis yet--still deciding between Dec. 6 and Dec. 13. The Dec. 6 sailing is the week we prefer because of our anniversary--but the itinerary that week is Western and DH prefers Eastern, so we may take the week of the 13th. Looks like the 13th would cost about $40 more, LOL.

 

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement. Change is exciting but can be a little intimidating :) I'm afraid I may try to get on any ship in port with a whale tail--old habits die hard.;)

[Keel Haul]

Not sure if you understanding, you don't "dump" your old "boats" onto the Chinese!

 

Have you been to Shanghai or Beijing, not to mentioned Hong Kong? Tons of rich folks there, in case you haven't heard.

I started importing to the UK from various regions in China in the 90s.The Beijing region is one of my favorites because of the cooking style.

The Chinese tourist is like most other tourist, the largest % like to travel to places where they speak the same language and eat the same food.

I know Miami was the 5th poorest cities in the US but to use your rather infantile analogy have you checked out the real estate prices in it more exclusive area's.

I think with some minor alterations to the fleet it will be a marriage made in heaven, after all the Chinese have been sailing in junk for centuries.

[Keel Haul]

Sorry to burst you little bubble EZ4 but I'm not in my 20s, I don't know where you got that from? :confused:

I got it from your birth date on your public information page.

 

Why have you removed the date

[Retiringworkingstiff]

I started importing to the UK from various regions in China in the 90s.The Beijing region is one of my favorites because of the cooking style.

The Chinese tourist is like most other tourist, the largest % like to travel to places where they speak the same language and eat the same food.

I know Miami was the 5th poorest cities in the US but to use your rather infantile analogy have you checked out the real estate prices in it more exclusive area's.

I think with some minor alterations to the fleet it will be a marriage made in heaven, after all the Chinese have been sailing in junk for centuries.

Read my post #89.

 

Resorting to words of a degrading nature shows your weakness.

 

You have just received the honour of earning a spot on my IGNORE list.

[Lace]

OK Lace, I said Bye but you sound like a reasonable person to talk to.

 

I am sort of hijacking the thread but here we go …

 

- Over the last say 10 years, the economy has begun to take shape in China. They now have the very poor (say about 85% of the population); the so called middle class (say 14.8% of the population); the rich (0.15% of the population) and the really rich (.05% of the population).

 

- The very poor … no further discussion required.

 

- The Middle Class, forget it, most of them still feel VERY insecure. Chinese are traditionally big savers, the MC saves, saves, saves. Taking a cruise, USD $4,000 for a family of 4? No way, that’s only for the rich!

 

- The Rich, net worth say USD$50 Million and up. Those people want to accumulate more wealth. Again, feeling insecure, they still think they need to look after the family for the next 3 generations. To get further ahead, on top of knowing what you are doing, you need to flaunt your wealth. That, unfortunately, has been and still is, the Chinese way. CCL, HAL, RCI i.e. mass market stuff … not going to cut it. They will be looked down upon by their business friends, end of relationships.

 

- The RR, net worth in the billions (USD), they don’t cruise like you and I. They have their own yacht(s), complete with servants.

 

Mass market cruise products are for the future Middle Class over there, when will they be ready? In 15 years, if they are lucky!

 

So, I doubt dumping old ships/boats to them would work, not at this time. They are not interested, doesn’t make economic sense, the MC is not ready.

 

Chinese are huge gamblers, including most that are considered middle class. RCI sent the Mariner over there I believe sometime in 2013. During the Singapore to Hong Kong inaugural cruise, I understand they removed many slot machines and replaced them with baccarat tables. Baccarat is 50-50 chance (so I’ve been told). Dumping old ships/boats over there, only if someone is interested to turn them into high octane casinos at sea, but that’s a different industry all together. Case in point, there is this little place called Macau, 45 minutes from Hong Kong by speed boat, a few casinos over there, yes, MGM, Sands etc. Annual turnover in gambling far exceeds Vegas, that happened more than a few moons ago.

 

Now I am just talking China mainly, other Far East countries, very similar in spending habits.

 

Hope you know why I said I don’t want to get into any arguments, it’s just a very different world/culture over there. It is what it is! Big $$$s for sure.

 

All interesting information, with one flaw, although not really a flaw.

 

Depending in how the ship is marketed and implemented will probably dictate their clientele. Obviously, if I wanted to cruise China, boarding a ship that primarily was Chinese in all aspects from language to print, I would be the ultimate ignorant American as I can't engage in either. I would be best suited cruising a ship that catered to a Western culture. Watching the Love Boat in the 80's seeing the specialty cruises and shows touring that part of the world had me dreaming that was the perfect was to explore that part of the world, without doing it Cunard style.

[Retiringworkingstiff]

All interesting information, with one flaw, although not really a flaw.

 

Depending in how the ship is marketed and implemented will probably dictate their clientele. Obviously, if I wanted to cruise China, boarding a ship that primarily was Chinese in all aspects from language to print, I would be the ultimate ignorant American as I can't engage in either. I would be best suited cruising a ship that catered to a Western culture. Watching the Love Boat in the 80's seeing the specialty cruises and shows touring that part of the world had me dreaming that was the perfect was to explore that part of the world, without doing it Cunard style.

Lace, very reasonable and civil comments from you too ...

 

At the risk of naming another cruise line here ... V...king I believe has a small ship/boat over there, itin called Splendor of China or something like that. I understand about 1/2 of the passengers are westerners (English speaking), the others are locals who do speak some English. You will be surprised how well you will fit in and not feeling like a stranger.

 

I have been thinking about doing that itn, only thing is my friends keep telling me the Yangtze looks very dirty and muddy.

[Retiringworkingstiff]

The crazy thing is those prices are both for balconies--a lido deck midship balcony on the Breeze and a 5D midship oceanview balcony on the Oasis. I couldn't believe the nice police/fire/EMT discount on the Oasis for that particular sailing and category (they had a much smaller discount on the central park and boardwalk balconies and none for the outsides and interiors for the 2 cruises we looked at), and I even called RCI to make sure the WOW OBC was combinable, and they assured me it was. Admittedly, I can get ES on the Breeze and lock in any price drops all the way until 2 days before departure, but at least I found out that RCI will honor price drops until final payment due date...

 

We haven't booked the Oasis yet--still deciding between Dec. 6 and Dec. 13. The Dec. 6 sailing is the week we prefer because of our anniversary--but the itinerary that week is Western and DH prefers Eastern, so we may take the week of the 13th. Looks like the 13th would cost about $40 more, LOL.

 

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement. Change is exciting but can be a little intimidating :) I'm afraid I may try to get on any ship in port with a whale tail--old habits die hard.;)

Congrats! Your Due Diligence really pays off!

[skyeman27]

Haven't read this thread in it's entirety, but would like to share this thought.

 

Other cruise lines share their loyalty program across the lines. I really wish CCL would do the same. We have over 50 cruises beween Carnival and Princess. Elite on Princess and a few days short for Diamond on Carnival. Each cruise line is different, but both have good points.

 

Maybe if the lines shared the loyalty, cruisers would be encouraged to try the other lines under the CCL umbrella.

 

Shirley

 

Agree 100% with this post...