Is Carnival Corp setting up CCL to be a feeder into their other cruise lines

[RDC1]

The recent move by Princess to over low cost short cruises, with FCC, seems to be attracting a lot of traditionally CCL cruisers to try Princess. I was recently on one out of LA. A lot of the people I talked with had only cruised on CCL before, but were doing the Princess cruise because of the low price and the FCC given. Most indicated that they would be doing Princess Cruises in the future, even after they used the FCC on a 7 day or longer cruise. For Princess the recent offers seem to be successful in not only filling the ships, but also as a marketing tool.

 

Couple this with the recent changes in dining on Carnival and it seems like it might be a strategy to encourage people to go up market in the CCL family. Getting those that like the more traditional aspects to go Princess and using CCL to be for less traditional, maybe more in competition with NCL, new cruisers.

[arush5268d]

CCL has been cut-backed to the point that it would serve best as an introductory line / 'gateway' to cruising / extreme budget line.

 

It would not surprise me one bit of CCL started to advertise the sister brands to those sailing on CCL ships. They could cross promote and whatnot. Problem being is that would take money away from CCL...and they are their own company.

[kcwingwalker]

The recent move by Princess to over low cost short cruises, with FCC, seems to be attracting a lot of traditionally CCL cruisers to try Princess. I was recently on one out of LA. A lot of the people I talked with had only cruised on CCL before, but were doing the Princess cruise because of the low price and the FCC given. Most indicated that they would be doing Princess Cruises in the future, even after they used the FCC on a 7 day or longer cruise. For Princess the recent offers seem to be successful in not only filling the ships, but also as a marketing tool.

 

Couple this with the recent changes in dining on Carnival and it seems like it might be a strategy to encourage people to go up market in the CCL family. Getting those that like the more traditional aspects to go Princess and using CCL to be for less traditional, maybe more in competition with NCL, new cruisers.

Interesting and something to think about:)

[Aplmac]

Sounds like a great business plan to me!

 

You think the folks at Carnival Corp. HQ in Miami,Fla

care which of their several cruise lines you go on?

 

It's all moolah, and it's all good!

Think Corporate, not individual cruise line. ;)

 

.

[SadieN]

Mom, Sis and I are some of those who have taken advantage of the Princess offers with the cruises on the west coast. We booked the cruise before the specials were announced. We like the vibrancy of Carnival but the ports are repetitive, not a surprise given the few ports over here.

 

We even cancelled our 7day PV/PV/Cabo cruise and booked a 10 San Diego/Cabo/La Paz/Loreto/PV cruise on Princess. We were looking forward to doing the overnight in PV. A year or so ago we were supposed to go to Cabo/La Paz/PV and it changed to Cabo/Cabo/PV.:(

[Georgiagolfer]

Would be a great marketing plan for the consumer also, but only if they had reciprocal agreement on their other lines for the loyalty Program, like RCI does.

[davy jones]

I believe that "entry level" is could be part of the strategy. IMO the main part of the strategy is to position Carnival as the "casual", "relaxed" or "low cost" cruising option. This would appeal to new cruisers, people who want a casual atmosphere in all aspects of the cruise, or those who want a quick, low cost, getaway. For the record, I can adapt to the casual dining strategy (which also has cost reduction aspects). However, I do not like the 2.0 entertainment.

 

Until recently, I contended that Carnival, NCL, and RCI were more similar than different. The recent rapid changes at Carnival now have me believing that Carnival wants to create a unique position for themselves in the industry. Some will like it and some will move on.

 

The risk with the "entry level" strategy is that some may "move up" to RCI or some other competitor instead of the CCL brands.

[FlyingCruiserNJ]

Doubt it. CCL itself makes up like over half the overall cruising market. They obviously are more trying to do the Spirit airlines model, which is to fill the ship and then nickel and dime everything to make their money. It would be silly IMO for them to cheapen their brand just to use it as an intro to other lines. Yes, some people will go on a CCL cruise and then move up onto Princess, etc but a lot won't. A lot will notice that the experience isn't all that great on CCL and might just not cruise again, at least not on another Carnival-owned line.

 

The fact is that their revenues are down due to ships not sailing full, and fares being ridiculously low, so they have to cut costs down to the point that they are in danger of producing a product that is so cheap nobody will want to even bother cruising them anymore.

[arush5268d]

Doubt it. CCL itself makes up like over half the overall cruising market. They obviously are more trying to do the Spirit airlines model, which is to fill the ship and then nickel and dime everything to make their money. It would be silly IMO for them to cheapen their brand just to use it as an intro to other lines. Yes, some people will go on a CCL cruise and then move up onto Princess, etc but a lot won't. A lot will notice that the experience isn't all that great on CCL and might just not cruise again, at least not on another Carnival-owned line.

 

The fact is that their revenues are down due to ships not sailing full, and fares being ridiculously low, so they have to cut costs down to the point that they are in danger of producing a product that is so cheap nobody will want to even bother cruising them anymore.

 

CCl does not make up over half of the overall cruising market. Carnival Corporation & plc (The company that owns all of the cruise lines under the Carnival umbrell) owns all the other cruies lines. CCL only has 24 shipos. Royal Caribbean line carries more passengers than Carnival Cruise line does

[FlyingCruiserNJ]

I believe that "entry level" is could be part of the strategy. IMO the main part of the strategy is to position Carnival as the "casual", "relaxed" or "low cost" cruising option. This would appeal to new cruisers, people who want a casual atmosphere in all aspects of the cruise, or those who want a quick, low cost, getaway. For the record, I can adapt to the casual dining strategy (which also has cost reduction aspects). However, I do not like the 2.0 entertainment.

 

Until recently, I contended that Carnival, NCL, and RCI were more similar than different. The recent rapid changes at Carnival now have me believing that Carnival wants to create a unique position for themselves in the industry. Some will like it and some will move on.

 

The risk with the "entry level" strategy is that some may "move up" to RCI or some other competitor instead of the CCL brands.

 

Yes, and your last sentence helps with my argument too. If you make a product that is worthless, who cares how much it costs for consumers? There is a point that the "pizza is made so cheaply that nobody would want to eat it" and once you go there as a company you are done. Carnival is hurting no matter what they tell everyone publicly, and this might just be a desperate effort to create an ULCC model in order to keep pressing forward.

 

Besides, how many people know that CCL and Princess are owned by the same corporation? Most don't and most wouldn't care either. Don't get me wrong. I have loved most of my Carnival experiences and they are still decently fun but they have taken so much away that it is quickly becoming not worth it anymore when there are better options out there. When a company begins to not care about keeping its most loyal and highest revenue producing customers in lieu of newbies who have no brand loyalty and likely never will, they have lost their way.

[FlyingCruiserNJ]

CCl does not make up over half of the overall cruising market. Carnival Corporation & plc (The company that owns all of the cruise lines under the Carnival umbrell) owns all the other cruies lines. CCL only has 24 shipos. Royal Caribbean line carries more passengers than Carnival Cruise line does

 

Thanks for the clarification. I myself confused carnival corp with CCL LOL.

[arush5268d]

Thanks for the clarification. I myself confused carnival corp with CCL LOL.

 

 

Its pretty easy to do. Personally I think the parent company should have a different name to avoid confusion. Especially since the other brands carry more than CCL does. But what do I know.

[TwinPrincessMermaids]

There is a point that the "pizza is made so cheaply that nobody would want to eat it" and once you go there as a company you are done.

 

Yeah, I unfortunately have a ANYTHING CCCorp bias, and that includes HAL and Princess too. (Don't think I have to worry about the other WAY luxury cruises anytime soon.) For me, its either going to be DC or RC, and I suppose NC in a pinch. I haven't tried HAL or Princess, but I don't really care to when there are so many other fish in the sea. X is another one.

Edited December 16, 2013 by TwinPrincessMermaids

[cruzfitter]

Average net revenue per passenger :

 

Carnival $657

Costa $1513

Princess $2374

Holland America $2614

Cunard $5606

Seaborne $7486

 

Who do you think Carnival Corp. wants you to sail with?

 

http://Http://www.cruisemarketwatch.com/market-share/

[FlyingCruiserNJ]

Average net revenue per passenger :

 

Carnival $657

Costa $1513

Princess $2374

Holland America $2614

Cunard $5606

Seaborne $7486

 

Who do you think Carnival Corp. wants you to sail with?

 

http://Http://www.cruisemarketwatch.com/market-share/

 

Well, does that factor in length of sailings? I mean Cunard, HAL, etc usually have longer sailings overall and Carnival does a lot of short stuff. But those higher end niche lines cater to a completely different market. I know I will probably never be able to afford Seabourne or Cunard nor would I probably ever be interested in the type of cruises they offer. 99 percent of people probably feel the same way. However, $657 still is a lot when many of the fares are not even half of that for many sailings. That is still a lot of extra revenue they are getting from each pax on average. Besides, how many children travel Cunard? Carnival? Do children spend any money?

[Colorado Kat]

Interesting thread.

 

I have not gotten any good-deal offers on Princess. Are they mailed or emailed? Or phone?

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Interesting thread.

 

I have not gotten any good-deal offers on Princess. Are they mailed or emailed? Or phone?

 

I get Princess deals emailed and mailed.

 

Bill

[Georgiagolfer]

Interesting thread.

 

I have not gotten any good-deal offers on Princess. Are they mailed or emailed? Or phone?

 

Sign up on their Email list and you will receive them. I get snail mail and email from CCL, Princess, RCI, Cunard, and NCL.

[nealstuber]

Sign up on their Email list and you will receive them. I get snail mail and email from CCL, Princess, RCI, Cunard, and NCL.

 

Nice to get something besides bills!

[cruzfitter]

Well, does that factor in length of sailings? I mean Cunard, HAL, etc usually have longer sailings overall and Carnival does a lot of short stuff. But those higher end niche lines cater to a completely different market. I know I will probably never be able to afford Seabourne or Cunard nor would I probably ever be interested in the type of cruises they offer. 99 percent of people probably feel the same way. However, $657 still is a lot when many of the fares are not even half of that for many sailings. That is still a lot of extra revenue they are getting from each pax on average. Besides, how many children travel Cunard? Carnival? Do children spend any money?

 

I threw in Cunard and Seabourne just because they were Carnival Corp. lines. But for perspective, here are some competing lines:

 

NCL $1445

RCL $1433

DCL $1665

 

I think these lines are similar enough to compare when figuring length of cruise or # of children.

 

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with Carnival's numbers. I'm just showing that these numbers imply that Carnival is the entry level cruise line for Carnival Corp. and that they would prefer that people would move up the ladder where the real profits are made.

[Relayer]

Interesting thread. We always look a the other lines, Disney, RCCL, Princess and others every time we book. Prices tend to be much higher on like itineraries and cabins than CCL. Entry level? The general consensus on most of the threads and with our personal contacts seems to be that there are more similarities than differences especially between CCL, RCCL, NCL and Princess.

 

Can't say as we have sailed only Disney and Carnival. The reason why for us is that, to date, we have never has less than a great vacation experience with Carnival. In our 8 years we haven't seen a ton of changes as I am sure some of you more veteran cruisers have. We could sail the other lines and I'm sure we will at some point. Just not enough reason to.

 

The Europe itineraries on some of the more luxury lines are very tempting now with longer 10 and 14 day trips with air fare included.

[cjknox]

The recent move by Princess to over low cost short cruises, with FCC, seems to be attracting a lot of traditionally CCL cruisers to try Princess. I was recently on one out of LA. A lot of the people I talked with had only cruised on CCL before, but were doing the Princess cruise because of the low price and the FCC given. Most indicated that they would be doing Princess Cruises in the future, even after they used the FCC on a 7 day or longer cruise. For Princess the recent offers seem to be successful in not only filling the ships, but also as a marketing tool.

 

Couple this with the recent changes in dining on Carnival and it seems like it might be a strategy to encourage people to go up market in the CCL family. Getting those that like the more traditional aspects to go Princess and using CCL to be for less traditional, maybe more in competition with NCL, new cruisers.

 

 

This has already been the case. Carnival, Costa and Aida serve as entry level cruise lines then you have the second tier cruise lines like HAL, Princess, P&O, and Ibero. Then you have the third tier lines Cunard and Seabourn. It a good business plan.

[SadieN]

Interesting thread.

 

I have not gotten any good-deal offers on Princess. Are they mailed or emailed? Or phone?

 

Princess is also doing radio ads for their 3&4day sailings out of San Pedro (Los Angeles).

 

For some cruises the whole cruise fare can be used as an FCC towards a 7day or longer cruise. Date requirements apply.

Edited December 17, 2013 by SadieN

[FlyingCruiserNJ]

I threw in Cunard and Seabourne just because they were Carnival Corp. lines. But for perspective, here are some competing lines:

 

NCL $1445

RCL $1433

DCL $1665

 

I think these lines are similar enough to compare when figuring length of cruise or # of children.

 

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with Carnival's numbers. I'm just showing that these numbers imply that Carnival is the entry level cruise line for Carnival Corp. and that they would prefer that people would move up the ladder where the real profits are made.

 

Sure, the yields on CCL are not huge in most cases but I figure that as a mass appeal brand, they would make up for the lower yields with greater volume of cruisers. Of course DCL generates higher yields. I mean, the same itinerary on there costs like 3 or 4 times as much as CCL, and even twice as much as on NCL and RCL. I know because i have priced out family vacation plans on each and DCL is by far the most expensive. Their yields had better reflect that. My original point though, was that a lot of weekenders and one-time cruisers that Carnival seems to be going after these days would never likely be enticed to move up the ladder to the more expensive brands under the umbrella. However, for the loyal and longtimers who spend more over the long run and who help recruit others to spend their money on CCL through word of mouth, watching a brand get gutted is not good. We are also the ones who actually are more likely to move up to a Princess-type but in many cases we don't because we actually like (or used to like a lot more) what the so-called intro cruise line was about.

[cjknox]

OP, this market positioning strategy is not unique to Carnival or the cruise industry. The Volkswagen Auto Group, for example, owns numerous brands like Volkswagen, Audi, and Porsche. Volkswagen is their entry level brand, Audi and Porsche constitute their second tier, while Bentley and Bugatti form their third tier uber luxury brand. Again, this is a proven market strategic placement strategy.

Edited December 17, 2013 by cjknox