Is Carnival Corp setting up CCL to be a feeder into their other cruise lines

[gpnfish]

You know, I don't understand why everyone is so down on Carnival. On carnival, with the way their pricing is now, you are paying 70-80% of the price you would pay to go on another mass market ship. What makes you think that you are going to get the same quality as RCI when you pay only 80% of what you pay on RCI. Not going to happen ! As it is everywhere with everything these days, you get what you pay for!

[Blk_Amish]

I wonder if after this introduction many newbies would book another cruise. First impression and all that. After all as many said they can go to Applebee's at home. What would be the difference?

 

I remember the excitement of our first cruise which included MDR dining as well. We were hooked on cruising ever since and never looked back.

 

In my world, a cruise even on Carnival is a big deal. Its not a bad value but they NEED to include things like tips upfront. Heaven forbids, by doing the might lead to the dreaded fare increase.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Blk_Amish

[glrounds]

The recent move by Princess to over low cost short cruises, with FCC, seems to be attracting a lot of traditionally CCL cruisers to try Princess. I was recently on one out of LA. A lot of the people I talked with had only cruised on CCL before, but were doing the Princess cruise because of the low price and the FCC given. Most indicated that they would be doing Princess Cruises in the future, even after they used the FCC on a 7 day or longer cruise. For Princess the recent offers seem to be successful in not only filling the ships, but also as a marketing tool.

 

Coup le this with the recent changes in dining on Carnival and it seems like it might be a strategy to encourage people to go up market in the CCL family. Getting those that like the more traditional aspects to go Princess and using CCL to be for less traditional, maybe more in competition with NCL, new cruisers.

 

This makes a lot of sense, RDC. I was a little down on Carnival since they went to 100% single supplement for SOLO cruisers, clobbered their loyalty program, and everything else in general was going down hill. I looked around and found a great cruise on Princess. First Alaskan cruise of the season last May for a terrific SOLO price. Had a terrific time. Beautiful ship well maintained, clean ship. Definitely a more traditional line with more reserved cruisers. You can see the upscale touches everywhere.

 

Was tempted to jump on one of the Princess FCC offers, but nabbed a Carnival cruise just yesterday with NO SOLO SUPPLEMENT, so it's another 4-dayer for me in several weeks. :)

[Blk_Amish]

You know, I don't understand why everyone is so down on Carnival. On carnival, with the way their pricing is now, you are paying 70-80% of the price you would pay to go on another mass market ship. What makes you think that you are going to get the same quality as RCI when you pay only 80% of what you pay on RCI. Not going to happen ! As it is everywhere with everything these days, you get what you pay for!

 

Not for everyone. Traveling the same week each year I paid comparable price on RCL, Princess and Carnival. My upcoming cruise on Royal Princess is the same as on Carnival Magic. My cheapest cruise was not on Carnival. If you are retired and live close to port, you can enjoy the cheap fares. Carnival still markets to parents who travel during peak times, not always cheap deal. Some already pay the higher rate and want to get what they pay for. After going down the water slide with your kids, getting dolled up and sharing a nice dining experience, with table cloth:D

 

Many are disappointed because they have redefined casual to mean cheap. Not long ago RCL was not better than Carnival just different. Now, Carnival is putting itself in a sea of its own boat ride, not cruise.

 

Last few cruises

RCL $599 (hump Balcony)

Princess $449+ (Alaska)

Carnival $600+ (cove balcony)

Royal Princess $599 (inside)

Edited December 17, 2013 by Blk_Amish

[travelplus]

You make some excellent points OP. I myself was reading reviews before taking my first cruise. I knew that Carnival was the budget cruise line and had some things that did not attract me. So I went over to Royal Caribbean and booked my first cruise.

 

If people know what to expect before boarding then they won't set their expectations high. The reason that Carnival had problems with their ships is because they try to spend as little as possible on maintaining their ships. Also they are more mass marketed and offer the basics to cruising.

 

This may be fine for some people who want to be introduced to cruising with loud parties on 4 day cruises.

 

But for my Father and my needs I strongly advised my Father that we should go with Royal on a 14 night Trans Atlantic cruise which we enjoyed.

 

This is the reason for competition as if there was one cruiseline taking all the passengers they could charge a pretty penny for mass produced food, shows etc.

 

As the saying goes you get what you pay for. I am not discounting Carnival by any means and this is not to say I wouldn't consider trying them but as of now our needs do not meet the demographic or on board experience at this time.

[misstopgun]

I believe that "entry level" is could be part of the strategy. IMO the main part of the strategy is to position Carnival as the "casual", "relaxed" or "low cost" cruising option. This would appeal to new cruisers, people who want a casual atmosphere in all aspects of the cruise, or those who want a quick, low cost, getaway. For the record, I can adapt to the casual dining strategy (which also has cost reduction aspects). However, I do not like the 2.0 entertainment.

 

Until recently, I contended that Carnival, NCL, and RCI were more similar than different. The recent rapid changes at Carnival now have me believing that Carnival wants to create a unique position for themselves in the industry. Some will like it and some will move on.

 

The risk with the "entry level" strategy is that some may "move up" to RCI or some other competitor instead of the CCL brands.

 

If they could somehow incorporate their loyalty programs they could avoid the risk of the switch in brands. After the Triumph situation I was pretty much forced to take RCL because my vacation time was booked and other Carnival itineraries did not appeal to me. I really enjoyed my RCL cruise but also enjoy my diamond status on Carnival.

 

If I could still enjoy the same perks on Princess I would be happy to pay a bit more for a better experience. You see, sometimes, to those of us that have to fly to our destinations, free laundry means a lot in baggage fees. As it is, we pay more for our flights most times than we do for the cruise itself. (not counting onboard spending) I am aware that most cruise line offer more in the way of perks and with much less sail time but who wants to start all over?

 

I really enjoyed my RCL cruise but never felt "at home" as I do on Carnival. People on RCL don't know that I am a seasoned cruiser and don't extend that "welcome back" attitude as Carnival does. If Carnival could extend their loyalty perks to their other brands, then you bet, I would be on the first ship leaving.

 

I wouldn't be dealing with the changes and "cutbacks" and I would still be giving them my money. I would be exploring new pay venues for dining. I would be on different itineraries so once again spending money on excursions I have not yet experienced, (because trust me, I have done all on Carnival I am physically fit for or cared to do.)

 

I just thank goodness that our needs are simple and the main goal of any cruise is still to relax and escape everyday jobs and expectations. Carnival still fits that goal. Too many changes, who knows? After all, if I am flying anyway, why not make it a land based trip to an all inclusive? We have done this in the past but became bored after a few days, but the older we get, and the less active we are, the possibility is once again in our minds. I see that in the future if things continue to regress, then not only will we not be sailing Carnival, we will not be sailing at all.

 

Why wouldn't the Carnival corporation want us to upgrade comfortably to a new line under their umbrella I wonder? It took since 2002 to get where we are. We would be very fortunate indeed to be able to get to this same level on another line. In another twelve years we would be lucky to board in wheelchairs. Meanwhile, we will would still be cruising and spending more on their sister ships if the benefits were corporate, rather than fleet wide.

[davy jones]

Top Gun - I agree with what you say. A combined loyalty program would encourage passengers to explore the other Carnival lines if they wish. I believe that Royal does this with X.

 

As others have said, the "move up" strategy is not new. The auto industry has been doing it forever. Chevy to Buick to Caddys, Fords to Lincolns, Toyota to Lexus, etc. Hotels, retail, and other industries do the same thing. I think that Carnival wants to clearly position themselves as the "casual", or "entry level" line.

 

Loyalty clubs aren't a big thing for me. We can only sail once or twice a year, mainly from NE ports and spread our cruises around multiple lines. That doesn't get you much more than an invite to a party that is often more like an advertising pitch for the cruise line.

 

I agree with you about Royal. Their product is good, but they seem to want to cater to those who sail them exclusively and that is felt throughout the ship. I don't get that same vibe from Carnival or NCL. NCL has outstanding perks for suite passengers, but I still don't feel the Royal vibe on NCL.

 

We will still sail Carnival on occasion. Our needs our usually simple and casual dining is usually fine with us, provided the food is good. If we want an inexpensive, relaxing getaway, Carnival will be considered. If we want better evening entertainment on a specific cruise, we'll probably head elsewhere for that sailing.

[beachbum53]

The recent move by Princess to over low cost short cruises, with FCC, seems to be attracting a lot of traditionally CCL cruisers to try Princess. I was recently on one out of LA. A lot of the people I talked with had only cruised on CCL before, but were doing the Princess cruise because of the low price and the FCC given. Most indicated that they would be doing Princess Cruises in the future, even after they used the FCC on a 7 day or longer cruise. For Princess the recent offers seem to be successful in not only filling the ships, but also as a marketing tool.

 

Couple this with the recent changes in dining on Carnival and it seems like it might be a strategy to encourage people to go up market in the CCL family. Getting those that like the more traditional aspects to go Princess and using CCL to be for less traditional, maybe more in competition with NCL, new cruisers.

 

Wouldn't that be a bit like General Motors hoping that those who lease or purchase a Chevy Spark would (within a year or so) upgrade to a more expensive vehicle, like a Buick or Cadillac? No harm in Carnival Corp. cross-promoting their other lines to CCL customers. Those who can afford it will no doubt, at some point, try out one or more of Carnival Corp.'s other higher-priced lines, even without cross-promoting. But so long as there are people that want to go on a cruise and can only afford CCL's prices, Carnival will be there to fill that need. And of course, there will always be the detractors that will turn their noses up at Carnival and continue to refer to Carnival as "the Walmart of the seas".

[Jimmy Geegitz]

CCL has been cut-backed to the point that it would serve best as an introductory line / 'gateway' to cruising / extreme budget line.

 

It would not surprise me one bit of CCL started to advertise the sister brands to those sailing on CCL ships. They could cross promote and whatnot. Problem being is that would take money away from CCL...and they are their own company.

 

I agree. This makes a lot of sense.

[spunkie4]

Haven't read this thread in it's entirety, but would like to share this thought.

 

Other cruise lines share their loyalty program across the lines. I really wish CCL would do the same. We have over 50 cruises beween Carnival and Princess. Elite on Princess and a few days short for Diamond on Carnival. Each cruise line is different, but both have good points.

 

Maybe if the lines shared the loyalty, cruisers would be encouraged to try the other lines under the CCL umbrella.

 

Shirley

[RDC1]

You make some excellent points OP. I myself was reading reviews before taking my first cruise. I knew that Carnival was the budget cruise line and had some things that did not attract me. So I went over to Royal Caribbean and booked my first cruise.

 

If people know what to expect before boarding then they won't set their expectations high. The reason that Carnival had problems with their ships is because they try to spend as little as possible on maintaining their ships. Also they are more mass marketed and offer the basics to cruising.

 

This may be fine for some people who want to be introduced to cruising with loud parties on 4 day cruises.

 

But for my Father and my needs I strongly advised my Father that we should go with Royal on a 14 night Trans Atlantic cruise which we enjoyed.

 

This is the reason for competition as if there was one cruiseline taking all the passengers they could charge a pretty penny for mass produced food, shows etc.

 

As the saying goes you get what you pay for. I am not discounting Carnival by any means and this is not to say I wouldn't consider trying them but as of now our needs do not meet the demographic or on board experience at this time.

 

Don't agree with your comments about maintenance. The recent issue with the Carnival ships I don't think are about maintenance as much as the original design of the ships. They were designed with a single main power distribution panel that provides a single point of failure. The ships built by Fincantieri in Italy seem to be built this way. Even though they have multiple engine rooms they have a single power distribution system.

 

Keep in mind that Celebrity (one of the RCL lines) have had major problems with their propulsion systems (the pod designs). Azmara has also had a couple of problems with fires in the main power distribution area a few years back. These were on cruises in Asia so they did not make the news here.

[arush5268d]

Don't agree with your comments about maintenance. The recent issue with the Carnival ships I don't think are about maintenance as much as the original design of the ships. They were designed with a single main power distribution panel that provides a single point of failure. The ships built by Fincantieri in Italy seem to be built this way. Even though they have multiple engine rooms they have a single power distribution system.

 

Keep in mind that Celebrity (one of the RCL lines) have had major problems with their propulsion systems (the pod designs). Azmara has also had a couple of problems with fires in the main power distribution area a few years back. These were on cruises in Asia so they did not make the news here.

 

 

Were people forced to poop in bags for days on end on those cruises?

[jimbo5544]

Bingo.

 

Double bingo.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app from my IPhone

[cjknox]

Were people forced to poop in bags for days on end on those cruises?

 

That's not the point.

 

This is a problem that can happen on many active cruise ships if the right combination of circumstances are in place. As has been stated many times, the issue is redundancy, or the lack thereof, and if a pipe bursts or something else becomes defective or malfunctions the rest is history.

[arush5268d]

That's not the point.

 

This is a problem that can happen on many active cruise ships if the right combination of circumstances are in place. As has been stated many times, the issue is redundancy, or the lack thereof, and if a pipe bursts or something else becomes defective or malfunctions the rest is history.

 

Other cruise lines seems to have redundancy in their ships electrical system. An engine room fire doesn't cripple the whole vessel.

 

Althought it is a bit hard to compare since nearly all of the fires in recent times were on Carnival Corp flagged ships. :rolleyes:

[stevenr597]

We had recently completed a European Cruise the Royal Princess. We did notice that cost cutting which we had experienced on Carnival was also being applied to Princess. I always had thought that Carnival was the competition of NCL and RCCL, but after our Princess trip I do feel that Princess would be closer to these two lines and Carnival would be the bargain basement Wal-Mart Cruise Line.

 

I do think that Carnival is trying to imitate the old G.M. You first bought a Chevrolet and then moved to a Pontiac, Olds, or Buick and then to a Cadillac. The problem with this strategy was that all of the brands lost their unique identify.

 

I do feel that this is what is happening to Carnival. While Princess used to be a classy unique product, I do feel that is is becomming Carnival Light.

 

Our next cruise will be on Celebrity.

[arush5268d]

We had recently completed a European Cruise the Royal Princess. We did notice that cost cutting which we had experienced on Carnival was also being applied to Princess. I always had thought that Carnival was the competition of NCL and RCCL, but after our Princess trip I do feel that Princess would be closer to these two lines and Carnival would be the bargain basement Wal-Mart Cruise Line.

 

I do think that Carnival is trying to imitate the old G.M. You first bought a Chevrolet and then moved to a Pontiac, Olds, or Buick and then to a Cadillac. The problem with this strategy was that all of the brands lost their unique identify.

 

I do feel that this is what is happening to Carnival. While Princess used to be a classy unique product, I do feel that is is becomming Carnival Light.

 

Our next cruise will be on Celebrity.

 

 

That is a very fair review of your observations. Thanks for sharing.

[RDC1]

Other cruise lines seems to have redundancy in their ships electrical system. An engine room fire doesn't cripple the whole vessel.

 

Althought it is a bit hard to compare since nearly all of the fires in recent times were on Carnival Corp flagged ships. :rolleyes:

 

Yes and No. There seems to be a trend in ships built by Fincantieri in Italy having a single point of failure. There have been other ships by other lines that have had similar failures and having to be towed back to port. The big difference is they have been far away from the US and usually closer to port so they have not made the news.

 

Crystal Harmony, Costa Allegra, Royal Princess are some examples that have had to be towed in.

[arush5268d]

Yes and No. There seems to be a trend in ships built by Fincantieri in Italy having a single point of failure. There have been other ships by other lines that have had similar failures and having to be towed back to port. The big difference is they have been far away from the US and usually closer to port so they have not made the news.

 

Crystal Harmony, Costa Allegra, Royal Princess are some examples that have had to be towed in.

 

I don't remember which thread it was but someone pulled up the past 9 ship fires. 7 of the 9 were Carnival Corp & plc brands. That is a problem. I will say again that there is much more to this story than is visible on the surface. The problems run deep and I suspect it goes all the way back to Carnival ordering ships as cheap as possible - hence poor engine room design, prone to fires and lack of redundancy.

[RDC1]

I don't remember which thread it was but someone pulled up the past 9 ship fires. 7 of the 9 were Carnival Corp & plc brands. That is a problem. I will say again that there is much more to this story than is visible on the surface. The problems run deep and I suspect it goes all the way back to Carnival ordering ships as cheap as possible - hence poor engine room design, prone to fires and lack of redundancy.

 

 

I am the one that posted that. Other cruiselines had other fires from other causes that were not listed. Those listed were limited to major lines (Carnival, RCI, NCL) that had specific causes being engine rooms. RCI had several fires that were not listed because their causes were not related to engines but did include Kitchen, laundry, elevator motors, etc. all of which could be considered to be related to maintenance but were not related to engines or generators.

[silvercrikhix]

The recent move by Princess to over low cost short cruises, with FCC, seems to be attracting a lot of traditionally CCL cruisers to try Princess. I was recently on one out of LA. A lot of the people I talked with had only cruised on CCL before, but were doing the Princess cruise because of the low price and the FCC given. Most indicated that they would be doing Princess Cruises in the future, even after they used the FCC on a 7 day or longer cruise. For Princess the recent offers seem to be successful in not only filling the ships, but also as a marketing tool.

 

Couple this with the recent changes in dining on Carnival and it seems like it might be a strategy to encourage people to go up market in the CCL family. Getting those that like the more traditional aspects to go Princess and using CCL to be for less traditional, maybe more in competition with NCL, new cruisers.

 

Yes, of course!

[paulypride]

Mom, Sis and I are some of those who have taken advantage of the Princess offers with the cruises on the west coast. We booked the cruise before the specials were announced. We like the vibrancy of Carnival but the ports are repetitive, not a surprise given the few ports over here.

 

We even cancelled our 7day PV/PV/Cabo cruise and booked a 10 San Diego/Cabo/La Paz/Loreto/PV cruise on Princess. We were looking forward to doing the overnight in PV. A year or so ago we were supposed to go to Cabo/La Paz/PV and it changed to Cabo/Cabo/PV.:(

 

 

 

I wish that Princess would port a ship in NYC year round!

[SadieN]

I wish that Princess would port a ship in NYC year round!

 

Hopefully they will have better scheduled than on the West Coast.

 

Princess is fire-selling the 3&4day cruises here. The days are wrong for these. For the most part the three day cruises start on Monday and the four day cruises start on Thursdays.

[glrounds]

Hopefully they will have better scheduled than on the West Coast.

 

Princess is fire-selling the 3&4day cruises here. The days are wrong for these. For the most part the three day cruises start on Monday and the four day cruises start on Thursdays.

 

You're quite right, Sadie.

 

I have no idea why they are completely switching around the days. The 3-dayers are ideal for those people that can't get off work in LA. They can leave work a tad early on Friday, catch the ship, walk off the ship Monday and still get to work that day at a reasonable time. Changing the days around screws up that entire process.

 

For a while there, Princess had even dropped its SOLO SUPPLEMENT on their 4 day cruises on the West Coast, but still double the 4-day cost of my IMAGINATION cruise on the same date Jan 26th, an itinerary which also has the SOLO SUPPLEMENT dropped. My experience on PRINCESS was so great last Spring, I would almost wish I had booked her instead of my Carnival cruise.

 

Sent from my Sansung 10.1 Tab 3

[Cruising Rules]

Interesting thread. We always look a the other lines, Disney, RCCL, Princess and others every time we book. Prices tend to be much higher on like itineraries and cabins than CCL. Entry level? The general consensus on most of the threads and with our personal contacts seems to be that there are more similarities than differences especially between CCL, RCCL, NCL and Princess.

 

Can't say as we have sailed only Disney and Carnival. The reason why for us is that, to date, we have never has less than a great vacation experience with Carnival. In our 8 years we haven't seen a ton of changes as I am sure some of you more veteran cruisers have. We could sail the other lines and I'm sure we will at some point. Just not enough reason to.

 

The Europe itineraries on some of the more luxury lines are very tempting now with longer 10 and 14 day trips with air fare included.

 

If you shop the various online travel cruise sites you can pretty easily find pricing on RCL, Celebrity, Princess HAL and others that compare nicely to CCL. Just booked a Celebrity cruise for $40 less then the similar CCL seven night itinerary.