Reason for staffing "reductions": delays in Visa application approvals?

[rkacruiser]

There have been some reports on this Message Board about what seem to be fewer and more over-worked Stewards, particularly in the Dining Rooms of some HAL ships. A Business News report today is saying that businesses are losing billions due to severe delays in granting U.S. visas to business people from China, Russia, India, Malaysia, and Indonesia. Since most of the Dining Room Stewards come from Indonesia, I am wondering if this is the reason for the understaffing rather than the assumed purposeful cutbacks ordered by the executives of Holland America in Seattle.

 

Does anyone have any knowledge about the difficulty HAL employees are having in obtaining visas needed to enter the United States?

 

24 cruises: 10 Holland America, 3 Princess, 3 Pacific Far East Line, 2 Royal Viking Line, 1 each: Cunard, NCL, RCCL, Sitmar, American Hawaii, Home Lines

[elmorejj]

The Indonesians are definitely having a hard time being approved for their visas. I have been told by HAL Hotel managers and other high up officers that this is the reason for shortages in staff for the DRs and cabin stewards. One Maitre D` told me in Dec. that they had only rec`d 6 visas that month for the fleet. He also told me they are training Filipinos for the DR as they don`t have a problem getting visas. I have already met 2 Filipinos who have been trained for the DR.....jean

[gizmo]

It takes much longer to get a visa since 911. I think someone told me about 3 months but this was some time ago. I could be completely wrong on the time frame.

 

I don't believe this has anything to do with the service issues. Most of the service issues have cropped up recently. Hal has had plenty of time to handle the delays in getting visas.

[RevNeal]

HAL has just added another big ship to the fleet -- the Westerdam -- and they had to take crew from other ships to staff her because the ss Jakarta simply hasn't been able to keep up with the significant increase in new staff positions which need to be filled.

 

Think about it ... a company doesn't DOUBLE its work-force needs in about 6 years without at least few problems in meeting the increased staffing needs.

 

Greg+

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Until Departure on the MS Zaandam, Panama Canal

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[gizmo]

Rev,

 

I agree with you but they just didn't acquire a ship suddenly and have to start looking for staff.

[darnapar]

No, but you cannot apply for a visa to early or they become void. There are ballet and opera stars who are having trouble getting a visa done in time for performances how much harder for someone who wants a cabin stewards job, from a "non friendly" country.

[Spender Nui]

I agree with all that you've said but also consider that many of the eligible Indonesians are not renewing contracts. They're leaving when their time is up. Also we were told some left on the spot when the new system was dictated to them.

[gizmo]

If Hal can't get the help they need why don't they do something about it? I can understand waiting 6 months after 911 to see if things improved but unfortunately they have not.

[Randyk47]

We talked for quite awhile with our room steward on the Oosterdam the last morning of the cruise. We were waiting in our room for our number to be called and he asked if he could get started on getting the room ready for the next occupant. We stayed out of his way and chatted for quite a few minutes. He didn't launch into some hard luck story about his family back home or sick mother or anything like that. We'd already tipped him so I felt he was being very honest. He said he was sorry he didn't get to see us as much as he wanted. His room assignments had gone from 12 SS cabins to 15 cabins and the extra rooms really kept him busy. So busy he didn't feel he could do as much for his passengers as he once had been able to do. Might add here that he kept our room very well but it was a little slower than our previous cruises. He clearly stated that HAL had cut the ratio and not one word about visas or any other problems getting staff. He'd been with HAL 12 years so he wasn't exactly a beginner.

 

Until Galaxy

 

 

[peaches from georgia]

I don't think anyone can deny that HAL definetely has cut back on staff, both dining room and housekeeping. It may have begun in 2001 for govt. security/visa reasons and adding several ships has certainly added to the need for labor, but with all the other changes that are now obvious, I don't think it's possible that HAL is also not involved in some major payroll cuts strictly for profitability reasons that are now beginning to take their toll on the level of service to the passengers.

[RevNeal]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> but they just didn't acquire a ship suddenly and have to start looking for staff.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

You're quite correct, it's not as if HAL didn't know that the expansion was going to happen. HALHQ knew the expansion was coming and they should have found a way to train more new staff members more quickly. However, growing pains were going to be unavoidable no matter what happened. I think we should realize that fact, and give it a little consideration during this period of expansion.

 

Think about it. Over just the last 18 months (since December 2002) HAL has added THREE of their largest-ever ships. This expansion has been larger and quicker than any other expansion in the line's history, and it happened almost without a pause after the acquisition of the Prinsendam in 2002, the Amsterdam and the Zaandam in 2000, and the Volendam in November of 1999. And, during this time, only one ship -- the old Westerdam -- left the fleet.

 

Count the ship expansion and the time period in which it happened: over the past 4 years HAL has experienced a net gain of 6 new ships, 3 of them significantly larger than any other ship in the line's history. In effect, HAL has DOUBLED its fleet and its staffing needs in just 54 months.

 

Let's put some crew-numbers onto these facts. Over the last 18 months HAL has expanded their staffing need by about 2400 crew members JUST for the three Vista ships. A little more than 2000 of these new staff members will be from Indonesia and the Philippines. How many people can the ss Jakarta train for HAL service in 18 months?

 

I'm convinced that a portion of the problem is that HAL wanted to reduce the number of staff members and, thus, save a little money. That's the bean-counters at work. HOWEVER, even if that had not been the case it does seem rather unlikely to me that HAL could have met their full staffing needs given the huge expansion of the fleet over the last 18 months. And, indeed, an argument can be made that many of the service-quality issues we've been hearing about over the last year or so MAY reflect the fact that the Jakarta isn't doing as good a job as they once were ... PERHAPS due to the fact that they're trying to push through too many people too quickly.

 

HAL should have been better prepared for the fleet-expansion.

 

Greg+

Maasdam: Western Caribbean Cruise Pictures

Volendam: Wayfarer Cruise Pictures and Video

Statendam: Hawaii Cruise Pictures and Video

Volendam: Alaska Inside Passage Cruise Pictures

 

 

Until Departure on the MS Zaandam, Panama Canal

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<a href="http://www.escati.com/counter98/free_time_codes.htm">

</center>

[gizmo]

Rev,

 

Well said !

[mariner]

When Alaska wants to raise a passenger ship tax, the cruise lines pump dollars to their lobbyists in Washington to block it.

 

I'm sure HAL could pump more to DC and get the State Dept to expedite their crew needs.

[rkacruiser]

Mariner makes an interesting point. I have wondered much the same thing. But, the Immigration and Naturalization Service is just a Bureau within the State Department. Being a bureaucracy, "lobbying", as one thinks of the practice, might not have any effect.

 

I wonder if those of us who are supporters of Holland America Line could do anything to help the Company if delays in visa approvals are in fact a problem.

 

Any ideas?

 

24 cruises: 10 Holland America, 3 Princess, 3 Pacific Far East Line, 2 Royal Viking Line, 1 each: Cunard, NCL, RCCL, Sitmar, American Hawaii, Home Lines

[Guest]

WOULD YOU CLEAN UP 15 CABINS FOR $50.00 PER MONTH PLUS TIPS? I doubt it.

 

 

 

[elmorejj]

re the above post, don`t forget the $200 a month the company sends home to the crews family.jean

[localady]

Jean-

I've never heard that HAL did that, but I am sure glad they do! Their staff works so hard and endures being away from their families for so long.... They deserve that and more IMHO!

 

Happy Cruising!

 

7/04 Ryndam Alaska B2B

12/04 Rotterdam Panama Canal

7/05 Prinsendam Baltic

 

RCCL x2(1999), Volendam (2000), Millinneum (2000), Veendam (2001), Disney (2001), Statendam (2003), Amsterdam (2003)

 

[elmorejj]

localady, I have been told this by many, many crew members. One deck steward on our recent cruise said his wife gets really mad if her check from HAL is a day or two late! he said she turns into a tiger!!.jean

[localady]

Jean-

I sure hope HAL continues this for families of the crew! But this may be part of the new system that the crew is concerned about.

 

Happy Cruising!

 

7/04 Ryndam Alaska B2B

12/04 Rotterdam Panama Canal

7/05 Prinsendam Baltic

 

RCCL x2(1999), Volendam (2000), Millinneum (2000), Veendam (2001), Disney (2001), Statendam (2003), Amsterdam (2003)

 

[gizmo]

I will probably get crucified for this but I will say it anyway. If Hal is having trouble getting staff why not get staff from somewhere else? Other cruise lines do and I do not read about all these visa problems on other boards.

What is important is service.

[Randyk47]

You'll get no grief from me Gizmo. I was thinking exactly the same thing.

 

Until Galaxy

 

 

[Jacqueline]

Its true, although it will give hal loyalists one more thing to complain about.

For jobs such as room stewards I cant see why they couldnt hire central europeans. I havent had any language problems with them on other lines.

 

Jacqueline

Constellation 3/20/04

HAL Westerdam 7/30/04

Tahitian Princess August 2003

Grand Princess Western Caribbean 2003

Brilliance of the Seas Baltic 2002

Ocean Princess- Alaska 2001

Celebrity Zenith- Bermuda 2001

Grand Princess Med 2000

 

[peaches from georgia]

What we really don't know is whether the decline in number of dining room and room stewards is because of visa problems, a purposeful cutback by HAL to cut costs, or a combo of both. If obtaining visas for Indonesians really isn't the problem then HAL obviously is not going to do anything about the decline in service. If visas are the problem then I think HAL has to immediately institute a Plan B, probably adding stewards of other nationalities, to get their service back up to expected standards.

[gizmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by peaches from georgia:

What we really don't know is whether the decline in number of dining room and room stewards is because of visa problems, a purposeful cutback by HAL to cut costs, or a combo of both. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Agree. One thing that bothers me is the removal of serving stations in the dining room. This leads me to believe it is more of a cutback than a visa problem.

[elmorejj]

I was told by a Maitre D` recently, that will probably be the next step, bringing in stewards from other countries. As long as I get top notch service, friendliness etc I have no problem with it. My favorites are the Filipinos anyway, and they don`t seem to have any problems with visas.jean