Istanbul - head scarfs

[texancruzer]

All I can come back and say is "our experiences" are what I am talking about. Not what some site says or doesn't say…..

 

In Egypt we had a MALE Muslim guide who stayed with us the entire 15 days - 24/7. We still keep in touch on Facebook.

 

It was him that informed us that non Muslims were not required to cover their heads and many devout Muslims looked upon it in a negative light. When we visited the large mosque in Cairo I had a scarf and covered my head when I entered…..but let it slip to my neck as I walked in since there were many tourists not covered.

 

In Turkey on our first visit (2007-May) I was wearing long pants and a long top with sleeves just past my elbows. Upon entering the Blue Mosque I was handed a large blue napkin looking cloth - which I put over my head. The lady at the door who handed it to me shook her head and pointed to my exposed arms (which was only about 6 inches worth) so I wrapped it around me wrap style……. upon entering there were many tourists un-scarfed.

 

On our second visit (2011- Nov) I was completely covered with long sleeves so no napkin was given to me. Again - no head scarf. Again - no tourists were covered.

 

We will be visiting again early next May and again I will take a scarf. I will cover my head if appropriate. I understand that things have become more strict so if I need to - I will.

 

My point is - be prepared, but follow what instructions are given to you when you get there…….. whether it be to cover or not to cover ;)

[ROCruiser]

I took a picture of the posted dress code when we visited the Blue Mosque last November. You can find the picture here, about half way down on the page. In some pictures, the light-blue head coverings are the "public" reusable ones that you can get at the entrance.

 

Not at the Blue Mosque, but when we visited another mosque in Cairo, our friend was wearing a pair of leggings and she was asked to cover herself with a rented robe. Now I always remember not to wear tight leggings when going into mosques. This may not apply at all mosques though.

[texancruzer]

I took a picture of the posted dress code when we visited the Blue Mosque last November. You can find the picture here, about half way down on the page. In some pictures, the light-blue head coverings are the "public" reusable ones that you can get at the entrance.

 

Not at the Blue Mosque, but when we visited another mosque in Cairo, our friend was wearing a pair of leggings and she was asked to cover herself with a rented robe. Now I always remember not to wear tight leggings when going into mosques. This may not apply at all mosques though.

 

This sign was not there when we visited. There was no sign.

 

I do find it interesting though the part about no photos or video allowed during prayer.

When we were there we WEREN'T even allowed inside during prayer. Only Muslims. We waited out side for about 15 minutes our first trip and then on our second trip we knew so we timed our visit around prayers.

 

So even though the sign indicates you may be allowed in during prayer…… be prepared to have to wait if this is not the case. (you will know since there is a separate entrance for visitors and they just won't let you in :D )

Edited September 12, 2014 by texancruzer

[lanceholt]

The sign was there when we visited the Blue Mosque in April of this year. There were NO women without head scarves, dress was without exception modest. We visited three mosques and this was true at all. At the Blue Mosque we were given plastic bags to carry our shoes. If you don't have the proper dress, you will be given blue scarves/garments to cover yourself. Men in shorts are required to wrap a blue square around their waist to cover their legs. True of children as well. You will not be able to "slip in" if you are not dressed properly believe me.

 

Some people who are saying otherwise may have been there in years past. In general we didn't see any shorts etc on the street. I wore full length pants, long sleeve shirt, and had a scarf ready to cover my head on entrance into a mosque.

 

All this really added to our experience as we were respecting the local customs/requirements and didn't feel entitlement to not follow those rules. Our two days in Istanbul were some of the most interesting, illuminating, memorable experiences of our lives and we have been to a lot of places so this is saying something.

[lanceholt]

As to prayer times, our gude from Ekol timed our tour and visits so that we were not at the mosques during prayer times so that we didn't have to wait. We did see individuals praying at the Blue Mosque but this wasn't during their regular prayer times. One of our biggest thrills, was when we had just left the Blue Mosque and heard the call to prayer. The Turkish people are very welcoming and your experience will be good believe me.

[cruisemom42]

The sign was there when we visited the Blue Mosque in April of this year. There were NO women without head scarves, dress was without exception modest. We visited three mosques and this was true at all. At the Blue Mosque we were given plastic bags to carry our shoes. If you don't have the proper dress, you will be given blue scarves/garments to cover yourself. Men in shorts are required to wrap a blue square around their waist to cover their legs. True of children as well. You will not be able to "slip in" if you are not dressed properly believe me.

 

Some people who are saying otherwise may have been there in years past. In general we didn't see any shorts etc on the street. I wore full length pants, long sleeve shirt, and had a scarf ready to cover my head on entrance into a mosque.

 

All this really added to our experience as we were respecting the local customs/requirements and didn't feel entitlement to not follow those rules. Our two days in Istanbul were some of the most interesting, illuminating, memorable experiences of our lives and we have been to a lot of places so this is saying something.

 

 

As I said earlier in this thread, things change and Istanbul has definitely become a more conservative country in the last decade. It sounds like there is a requirement to "cover" at the Blue Mosque now, which wasn't always so.

 

I have no problem with following local rules and customs. I was only a bit surprised to find folks taking others to task for doing something that was not required at the time.

 

As you also say, Istanbul (and Turkey in general) is a fascinating place. I'll be spending another few days in Istanbul next month and I'm really looking forward to it.

[CintiPam]

As you also say, Istanbul (and Turkey in general) is a fascinating place. I'll be spending another few days in Istanbul next month and I'm really looking forward to it.

 

Enjoy your visit, cruisemom. We had another four days in Istanbul in May, and it was even better than our first visit.

[Hlitner]

There has always been right and wrong....and not observing proper dress in a Mosque (even when you can get away with it) is wrong, disrespectful, and just feeds into the Ugly American (or Westerner) label. Yes, you might not get stopped because most folks are too polite, but that does not make it right. There is a reason they put up those signs at the Blue Mosque (most Mosques do not have signs in ENGLISH) and that reason is because many tourists ignored proper courtesy and respect for the Mosque!

 

I should add that it is not just Muslims, who follow some interesting traditions about women! Anyone who has ever visited the Western Wall (Wailing Wall) in Jerusalem can attest to that fact!

 

Hank

Edited September 24, 2014 by Hlitner

[pieshops]

There has always been right and wrong....and not observing proper dress in a Mosque (even when you can get away with it) is wrong, disrespectful, and just feeds into the Ugly American (or Westerner) label. Yes, you might not get stopped because most folks are too polite, but that does not make it right. There is a reason they put up those signs at the Blue Mosque (most Mosques do not have signs in ENGLISH) and that reason is because many tourists ignored proper courtesy and respect for the Mosque!

 

I should add that it is not just Muslims, who follow some interesting traditions about women! Anyone who has ever visited the Western Wall (Wailing Wall) in Jerusalem can attest to that fact!

 

Hank

 

So so very true. Every person who travels should research local customs and abide by them and not think everyone is going to conform to you. Nothing gets me more mad then when I see an "ugly American" in another country.

[cruisemom42]

There has always been right and wrong....and not observing proper dress in a Mosque (even when you can get away with it) is wrong, disrespectful, and just feeds into the Ugly American (or Westerner) label. Yes, you might not get stopped because most folks are too polite, but that does not make it right. There is a reason they put up those signs at the Blue Mosque (most Mosques do not have signs in ENGLISH) and that reason is because many tourists ignored proper courtesy and respect for the Mosque!

 

I should add that it is not just Muslims, who follow some interesting traditions about women! Anyone who has ever visited the Western Wall (Wailing Wall) in Jerusalem can attest to that fact!

 

Hank

 

IF this is in response to my post, either I am being woefully unclear or you are intentionally not understanding me.

 

There was no sign when I first went to the Blue Mosque. The man at the entrance told us not to cover. Let me repeat: He didn't merely say it was okay to go in without a scarf, he emphatically told us NOT to. We later had a lengthy discussion with our guide about Turks and their pride (at that time) in being more secular, especially in Istanbul, than some other nearby nations. At around the same time, there was also a lengthy article in the NY Times about women in Turkey and the issue of covering. I have quoted it here in the past.

 

Believe me, I absolutely respect local traditions. I would never dress inappropriately. I don't try to "get away" with things. I put on the equivalent of a burka to visit a particular mosque in Syria. I had a scarf with me at that visit to the Blue Mosque in 2006. But in that situation, at that time, what we were being told was that the "more" was not to cover. Women were not expected to cover at that location and in fact to insist on doing so would be wrong and cause unwanted attention to ourselves.

 

As another example: I was walking around Cairo in an area few tourists visit with a guide who had become a personal friend (following a previous trip). The area is one where there are numerous very old mosques and other Islamic monuments. (Al-Muizz street). It's a beautiful area and a shame that few people see it.

 

We went inside several mosques on the street. In one, we did not cover (neither she nor I nor any other woman inside was covered). In another, they were quite strict that we both had to be covered and very "modestly" attired. She explained to me when I asked that it depends on what sect is responsible for the mosque and their interpretation of what is correct. She was very gracious but had no problem telling me what was the proper thing to do. And I had no problem complying.

 

Islam is not monolithic. Mosques are not all run under one set of rules, and they are not immune to changes in religious and political climate.

 

I maintain that it is never wrong to follow the lead of those who are much more familiar with what is correct and proper in their own country, city, and individual religious establishment than I am.

 

I'll say no more.

Edited September 24, 2014 by cruisemom42

[CintiPam]

Cruisemom, as you undoubtedly have read, unfortunately you can definitely see the effects of the more conservative government on sites such as the Blue Mosque by the head scarf rules these days.

 

Also even in very sophisticated Istanbul, on our May four-day visit, we observed many more local women in much more conservative clothing since our first visit in 2008.

[texancruzer]

IF this is in response to my post, either I am being woefully unclear or you are intentionally not understanding me.

 

There was no sign when I first went to the Blue Mosque. The man at the entrance told us not to cover. Let me repeat: He didn't merely say it was okay to go in without a scarf, he emphatically told us NOT to. We later had a lengthy discussion with our guide about Turks and their pride (at that time) in being more secular, especially in Istanbul, than some other nearby nations. At around the same time, there was also a lengthy article in the NY Times about women in Turkey and the issue of covering. I have quoted it here in the past.

 

Believe me, I absolutely respect local traditions. I would never dress inappropriately. I don't try to "get away" with things. I put on the equivalent of a burka to visit a particular mosque in Syria. I had a scarf with me at that visit to the Blue Mosque in 2006. But in that situation, at that time, what we were being told was that the "more" was not to cover. Women were not expected to cover at that location and in fact to insist on doing so would be wrong and cause unwanted attention to ourselves.

 

As another example: I was walking around Cairo in an area few tourists visit with a guide who had become a personal friend (following a previous trip). The area is one where there are numerous very old mosques and other Islamic monuments. (Al-Muizz street). It's a beautiful area and a shame that few people see it.

 

We went inside several mosques on the street. In one, we did not cover (neither she nor I nor any other woman inside was covered). In another, they were quite strict that we both had to be covered and very "modestly" attired. She explained to me when I asked that it depends on what sect is responsible for the mosque and their interpretation of what is correct. She was very gracious but had no problem telling me what was the proper thing to do. And I had no problem complying.

 

Islam is not monolithic. Mosques are not all run under one set of rules, and they are not immune to changes in religious and political climate.

 

I maintain that it is never wrong to follow the lead of those who are much more familiar with what is correct and proper in their own country, city, and individual religious establishment than I am.

 

I'll say no more.

 

I am with ya'. Again, our guide in Cairo also told us not to cover. I did, went in and no one else was covered, so let my scarf slip to my shoulders.

 

The thing here is to be prepared. Dress conservatively, take a scarf and follow the rules…… whatever they may be CURRENTLY.

[lanceholt]

There has always been right and wrong....and not observing proper dress in a Mosque (even when you can get away with it) is wrong, disrespectful, and just feeds into the Ugly American (or Westerner) label. Yes, you might not get stopped because most folks are too polite, but that does not make it right. There is a reason they put up those signs at the Blue Mosque (most Mosques do not have signs in ENGLISH) and that reason is because many tourists ignored proper courtesy and respect for the Mosque!

 

I should add that it is not just Muslims, who follow some interesting traditions about women! Anyone who has ever visited the Western Wall (Wailing Wall) in Jerusalem can attest to that fact!

 

Hank

 

That is how we feel also. We have had wonderful experiences all over Europe, but we respect local beliefs and customs and don't argue about them or complain that this is not as good or the same as "back home." I am a feminist and Catholic but at the invitation of our guide went into the women's area at the Blue Mosque and said a prayer for example. BTW, our guide was a progressive woman but covered her head entering every mosque.

 

We are looking forward to being in Istanbul next year.

[CruiseIreland]

We're just back from Istanbul. At both the Sulemanye and Blue Mosques, scarves were proffered in a way that brooked no refusal, but politely. Signs were very clear. I had to attach the bottoms of my shorts at the Blue Mosque but not at the Sulemanye. Funnily, a tablemate, a Moslem lady, told us she refused to wear the scarf at the Blue Mosque.

 

They were both wonderful and I would have worn a burka to visit them if I had to.;)

[Vineyard View]

I did not know about covering entire arms instead of just shoulders. glad I read this! Thank you. Do men also need to have their arms covered?

[CruiseIreland]

I did not know about covering entire arms instead of just shoulders. glad I read this! Thank you. Do men also need to have their arms covered?

No, a tee shirt or polo shirt is fine.

[Vineyard View]

So for women - knees, head, arms

And for men- knees only?

 

Thank you!

[CintiPam]

So for women - knees, head, arms

And for men- knees only?

 

Thank you!

 

For women: knees, head and shoulders.

 

For men: knees and shoulders.

[Vineyard View]

Thank you.

 

Interesting.......