This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[Drico]

 

Yes, I agree.

 

 

 

Yes, of course, but let's be practical.

If they are to say they will not smoke while I am on my verandah that puts pressure on me to limit the amount of time I spend on my verandah in order to allow them time to smoke. I am NOt okay about being answerable to anyone else (my neighbor) for how much time I can be on my verandah and when.

 

 

LOL! I guess I should have expected that answer. One of my brothers who goes on an occasional cruise w/me smokes, and as soon as he has the chance he tells our neighbors he smokes, and if it is a problem let him know and he won't smoke while they are enjoying their balcony. Never have had a problem.

[sail7seas]

 

LOL! I guess I should have expected that answer. One of my brothers who goes on an occasional cruise w/me smokes, and as soon as he has the chance he tells our neighbors he smokes, and if it is a problem let him know and he won't smoke while they are enjoying their balcony. Never have had a problem.

 

While you and your brother may not have thought you ever had a problem, you really don't know if your neighbors did. Some people are either too timid, shy, polite, reserved, or non-confrontational to be explicit in what is displeasing them. They well may have 'suffered' the smoke or restrictions on their free use of their verandah whenever they wished and never told you. You have no way to know how many times he may have been smoking and they did not use their verandah as they did not want to suffer the smoke. I shouldn't have to be made uncomfortable or make a specific request of any other guest in order for me to enjoy full use of my verandah when I wish.

 

I know :D, you likely thought this is what I would answer. :)

 

[Sow There]

We just returned from our first HAL cruise - and without intention of creating bad feelings on this thread, I will offer my observations if anyone really cares to read them-

There were times when we needed to be in our cabin due to nearby smokers - although the smoke was not a constant on our balcony, there were a couple times when we really wanted to enjoy being outside - for example 7:30AM having a cup of coffee. And yes, the door needed to be closed to not to smell the smoke.

 

Being outside at the aft pool was nearly impossible - almost the entire seating/table area was constantly (not exaggerating) filled with smokers. And when the door leading to this area was left open - which was frequently - the smoke poured inside the ship through the hallway.

 

While on a HAL ship tour (which we only did a couple times) there were smokers in the group who did not walk a little ways away when they lit up, and in fact were smoking in the middle of the tour group as we were being led through narrow streets with no opportunity to escape their smoke.

 

The casino - always smelled of smoke, but nothing compared to out by the aft pool

 

All this said, I used to smoke - and during those years I was conscientious of stepping away from others, of being aware if my smoke was intruding on others.

I did not experience this courtesy on the Ryndam.

 

There needs to be an effort by HAL to determine a way that all can be happy - smokers and non. Smoking balcony sections, smoking tables sections outside - something! I met people who do in fact choose HAL because they can smoke on their balconies - and I would think that this trend will continue as other lines expand their non-smoking policy. I don't know what the answer is - but there needs to be some type of effort on Hals part to achieve a better balance than it currently stands. JMHO.

 

Interesting summary of your experiences.

 

Having sailed on HAL a number of times, most before the policies were being vreated, smoking on board was not an issue on Cruise Critic and because there were many venues where smoking occurred the issue was not a basis for complaint or confrontation.

 

Our experience matches that of Drico. We've often been asked if we minded if someone lit up. We always say no but theer are occasions where others in the immediate area say they would prefer not.

 

No problem. Ever. And it didn't require an edict from on high for basic courtesy to carry the day. (Basic courtesy goes both ways. If the non smoker expects to be away for an extended period he should advise the smoking neighbor just as the smoking neighbor should advise the non smokers.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Sow There

[sammiedawg]

Sow There, as you say you are recounting experiences from awhile back in time.

This cruise line currently has an adverse selection process going on, smokers are flocking to HAL. The mix of passengers includes a higher percentage of smokers which compounds the problem. Some cruises are worse than others and I've recounted a few on this thread.

I sail Oceania and Princess regularly and I can say unequivocally their passenger mix has decidedly fewer smokers.

[mountainmare]

What smokers often don't realize is that it is not only the neighbor next door who is impacted, we have been driven inside by the people below (this was an aft cabin where the smoke tends to rise up, not out). HAL allows smoking on verandas, it is our choice to book a veranda on HAL--and take a chance that we will be smoked out. Smokers book HAL knowing that they can smoke on their veranda. While it is very nice to be considerate of neighbors it is neither required nor expected.

We spend most of our cruise on our balcony, from very early in the morning to reading very late at night, therefore we are waiting for a policy change before we book another HAL cruise.

[Mmtrip]

Let me just start by saying - I know little overall about HAL's passenger breakdown (ethnicity wise) or their US cruises vs European cruises vs other itineraries nor do i know how HAL compares to the other Mass Market Cruise lines that are often spoken of here.

 

What I would like to know is if these factors impact what smoking policies each line has overall.

 

Why I bring this up? I have cruised only 4 x's and I noticed that on the 1 cruise I took out of a European Port (Rotterdam) where there was an 70+% Dutch passenger population (less than 20% US/Canadian) there were noticeably more smokers on the ship. WAY more.

 

After being stationed in Germany for the year, my DH and I were accustomed to a lot more exposure to second hand smoke than we are here in So Cal., so on the ship, it didn't seem shocking at the time. (Now, Italy was shocking for us.)

 

In Summary - I just wonder -

 

a. Do the Lines (HAL and otherwise) have a large Non-N. American passenger populations?

b. Do they sail the same European ports that HAL does?

c. Are these factors when deciding on smoking policies for each line?

d. Maybe a stretch for the topic but - what is the comparison between % of population that smokes here in N. America vs Europe vs Australia?

 

Trying to understand the motivation for different policies for the different lines.

[TrulyBlonde]

I just booked a 35 day Oct 2015 from CA to Oz/NZ and did not realize they allowed smoking on balconies. We are very concerned and I wonder because this is leaving from Cali and the length of sea days if the demographic will be more smokers or a much older group that gave it up years ago for health reasons etc. This will be our 1st HAL cruise although we have cruised close to 20 and mainly luxury lines. Very concerned about what we are reading especially in this day and age when it is prohibited in so many areas. Any thoughts?

[bajakiter]

We have been waiting for a couple of years for HAL to adopt the "no smoking on balconies " policy. It doesn't appear to be happening soon.

With some of the other cruise lines adopting this policy, it appears from this thread that more smokers are switching to HAL.

We have never sailed with another line.

Oh what to do? We don't want to wait forever.

Perhaps, take our chances that our neighbors will be non smokers. What are the odds? 50/50.

Looking at Princess but prefer HAL's itinerary.

[TrulyBlonde]

I loved this itinerary and timing, but actually after reading all of this will not risk it with the smoking and sent my Amex TA an email requesting a cancellation. 50/50 is too much risk for us..:((

[mountainmare]

You just never know. But there could be only one smoker booked on your cruise and if that person is next to you then you will think it is a smokey cruise. You have picked a wonderful cruise, if the chance of being smoked out is too stressful then look at a different cruise line or maybe take a land trip (I'm not being smart or disrespectful, this is what we have done).

MAYBE (I'm just dreaming here) the policy will change by Oct 2015.

[tip]

What smokers often don't realize is that it is not only the neighbor next door who is impacted, we have been driven inside by the people below (this was an aft cabin where the smoke tends to rise up, not out). HAL allows smoking on verandas, it is our choice to book a veranda on HAL--and take a chance that we will be smoked out. Smokers book HAL knowing that they can smoke on their veranda. While it is very nice to be considerate of neighbors it is neither required nor expected.

We spend most of our cruise on our balcony, from very early in the morning to reading very late at night, therefore we are waiting for a policy change before we book another HAL cruise.

 

 

Very well said. We have six HAL cruises under our belts and will not book another until HAL recognizes that we are now in the 21st Century.

[Lizzie68]

I loved this itinerary and timing, but actually after reading all of this will not risk it with the smoking and sent my Amex TA an email requesting a cancellation. 50/50 is too much risk for us..:((

 

That's really sad, and I wish you would let HAL know by contacting them. For a 35-day cruise, people fly in from all over, so there would be no demographic in play as to smoking.

[suz1607]

I must say this has gotten absurd! The more cruise lines restrict smoking the more complaints I read about smokers! It is about to turn me off of even reading cruise critic --- thanks for having only one thread which I can avoid if I want! The whole situation has almost become a power play. I know smoking is not good for anyone --- smokers and non-smokers alike --- but many other things are like that. I have cruised happily for 50 years. Guess that was back in the time when people were just happy to have a vacation and did not try to regulate what everyone around them did. Kind of reminds me of what I read about prohibition in the 1920's. Just getting this off my chest --- and am sure I will get flamed!

[kennicott]

I must say this has gotten absurd! The more cruise lines restrict smoking the more complaints I read about smokers! It is about to turn me off of even reading cruise critic! I have cruised happily for 50 years. Guess that was back in the time when people were just happy to have a vacation and did not try to regulate what everyone around them did. Kind of reminds me of what I read about prohibition in the 1920's. Just getting this off my chest --- and am sure I will get flamed!

 

Fifty years ago you just acquiesced to pier group pressure, correct, and inhaled their smoke, without a gripe, right? Well, I did too, but as I recall that era I must admit I was as ignorant as you were in subjecting myself to second hand smoke and today I regret I didn't have the courage to stand up and say "no more". Remember all the meetings and board room gatherings where many smoked and by late in the day all our eyes were watering due the smoke cloud layer that had reached our necks?

 

Oh yes, those were the days back then when people were happy to have a "vacation" regardless of any consequences. Of course, "just happy" would have been arguable then if they knew it was going to knock many years off their life, and perhaps render the remaining years anything but quality, meaning "agony", "rather be dead". I recall too the arguments over asbestos poisoning, similar to the argument you just rendered regarding tobacco smoke, people were just happy to have a job, forget what they were breathing, they were happy. Happy at the time that is.

 

Fact is I knew all along that smoking cigarettes is dangerous to a person’s health, thus I didn't ever smoke. What I did not understand was that secondhand smoke is no different. Passive smoke means that a nonsmoker is still ingesting the dangerous chemicals in tobacco. Nonsmokers are at risk of developing all the same health issues as a smoker. Secondhand smoke should be avoided and can be avoided or at the least reduced by not being anywhere in the vicinity of those that do.

 

We were on the Prinsendam a few years ago for almost a three month voyage. At that time they did allow smoking inside in some locations. One of those areas was the best dance floor on the ship, but hardly anyone smoked there because there were quite a number of single older ladies who really enjoyed dancing just before dinner and detested smoking. HAL provided four men to dance with them. We like to dance too so got to know many of them during the voyage. Unfortunately, it so happened, a group of hard core smokers who had previously been chatting and smoking regularly up on the Lido decided to gravitate to this area, not to dance, but to smoke and smoke, during the final four or five weeks of the trip. This smoking practice really upset every one on the regulars who danced in the evening, particularly the ladies, in one case a lady who was a long time HAL cruiser was so irritated I believe she pulled the pin on the line due this experience.

 

I'm not certain for sure what is going on with HAL here, we are over 220 days with them total. Other than the dance floor experience I previously mentioned we haven't been put off that much by smokers, except for my wife occasionally down in the Casino. Last time we were on HAL was last February for 30 days when we didn't encounter any smoking issues. However, it appears to me that HAL has become a magnate for smokers since they are the only line left that allows smoking on balconies. From all accounts this has gotten out of hand.

 

Until a few days ago we had a 29 day HAL voyage booked beginning next October 26 in Athens. I canceled it this week. Not necessarily due the smoke issue but primarily due to all the political unrest in the mid-east which appears to be getting worse not better. But the smoking issue on HAL was certainly a factor in our decision. Right or wrong, so be it.

 

With all due respect though, please do not patronize me with the old days gibberish, when I too am a part of the old days and I do recognize that we made big, big mistakes back then, due nothing else but absolute ignorance. Fortunately, somebody has some brains and guts today to say no.

[chrispb]

Fifty years ago you just acquiesced to pier group pressure, correct, and inhaled their smoke, without a gripe, right? Well, I did too,

.

 

Just curious, are you suffering from that inhalation all these years later?

[sail7seas]

Just curious, are you suffering from that inhalation all these years later?

 

Wow, that's the 'take away' from such a thoughtful, well written post?

That truly is a rather personal question. Not everyone wishes to discuss the state of their health on a public internet forum. :eek:

 

Edited November 12, 2014 by sail7seas

[Lizzie68]

Just curious, are you suffering from that inhalation all these years later?

 

The question was not posed to me, but it can take many years for emphysema to manifest itself - as well a lung cancer.

[kennicott]

Just curious, are you suffering from that inhalation all these years later?

 

I guess that is a fair question. Answer: Not that I know of, yet.

 

However, I'm an Alaskan and worked mostly outdoors until my late twenties, commercial bush pilot. About that time and for about three years I did a lot of inside work where everyone smoked, as I previously mentioned. So I quit that job and went back to the wilds of Alaska. That lasted about three years, then I was offered an executive position where once again I was subject to smoke filled rooms. Fortunately, the heat was on smoking and smokers, so gradually more and more office environments became smoke free as well as public places and restaurants. So maybe I escaped, due our clean outdoor air up here.

 

My wife used to smoke when we were in the bush but quit about the time we became more citified. I recall dorm room arguments back in my college days regarding smoking. Smokers would screech "There is no proof" and to a certain extent they were correct, not because there wasn't any proof but because it was a closely guarded secret, protected by the moneyed tobacco interests. Fortunately, government began making research inroads into the hazard and the public at large became more and more aware. Remember the coach of the Chicago Bears, Mike Ditka? He owned/owns a restaurant in Chicago and when the city stopped the smoking in his establishment he went nuts. Was going to run for President or something and get everybody straightened out. Haw. Laissez faire capitalism, anybody?

 

Anyway, back to HAL and their smoking policy. Like other commentators here, I look at this exercise as evolutionary. Hopefully, more sooner than later, they will tighten up smoking restrictions. Question right now is: How much of an attractant is HAL's current liberal smoking policy for smokers excluded from smoking on other lines? If there is a significant increase in smokers going up the gangway, well then, count us out.

Edited November 12, 2014 by kennicott

[DesertPesce7751]

I'm on the Statendam right now for a 31 day cruise and haven't noticed ANY smokers. No smell on the balcony, no smell in the casino…nothing! I think that goes to show that the policy isn't a draw for most passengers. Then again, this itinerary is very nature/education/history focused, so maybe people with those (our) values are less likely to smoke in the first place. I see the smoking going away on HAL in the near future. Clientele like those of Carnival might welcome it for years to come. Different values.

[kennicott]

I see the smoking going away on HAL in the near future. Clientele like those of Carnival might welcome it for years to come. Different values.

 

Unfortunately you picked a poor example DesertPesce, You indicate, "Carnival clientele might welcome in for years to come smoking on balconies". Fact is, Carnival Cruise Lines is a good representative of a no smoking policy, proven by it having a much more smoking restrictive policy than their sister line HAL has. Matter of fact, Carnival Cruise Lines tried to implement one of the first no smoking at all on one of their ships, only to be handed their butts. They acquiesced and changed the policy back to allowing limited smoking.

 

Now, Carnival Corp owns well over half of all cruise ship tonnage in the world. Big mistake to equate "Carnival" with slovenly practices unless you want to include Seabourne, Cunard, etc, etc. However, in this instance you are not doing that, instead you are of the misleading impression that HAL, a Carnival Corp subsidiary, is the good buy regarding smoking and Carnival Cruise Lines, also a Carnival Corp subsidiary, is the bad guy. Big mistake.

 

Once again, HAL is of the Carnival Corp family and apparently they are the only one carrying on the huff and puff tradition of allowing smoking on the balcony. In other words, HAL is carrying the smoking baggage for all of the Carnival Corp family.

 

That therein begs the question, is HAL carrying the smoking baggage for the entire industry alone, who else allows smoking on the balcony?

[jimmy2x]

I'm on the Statendam right now for a 31 day cruise and haven't noticed ANY smokers. No smell on the balcony, no smell in the casino…nothing! I think that goes to show that the policy isn't a draw for most passengers. Then again, this itinerary is very nature/education/history focused, so maybe people with those (our) values are less likely to smoke in the first place. I see the smoking going away on HAL in the near future. Clientele like those of Carnival might welcome it for years to come. Different values.

 

My, that is just a wee bit condescending. After all these years, I had no idea that smoking or not smoking was part of a value system. Guess I'd better give away all those books, can the degree, and most certainly stay away from the great outdoors.:D

[chrispb]

Wow, that's the 'take away' from such a thoughtful, well written post?

That truly is a rather personal question. Not everyone wishes to discuss the state of their health on a public internet forum. :eek:

 

 

I didn't ask you. Boy, what an over-reaction:cool:

[chrispb]

I guess that is a fair question. Answer: Not that I know of, yet.

 

However, I'm an Alaskan and worked mostly outdoors until my late twenties, commercial bush pilot. About that time and for about three years I did a lot of inside work where everyone smoked, as I previously mentioned. So I quit that job and went back to the wilds of Alaska. That lasted about three years, then I was offered an executive position where once again I was subject to smoke filled rooms. Fortunately, the heat was on smoking and smokers, so gradually more and more office environments became smoke free as well as public places and restaurants. So maybe I escaped, due our clean outdoor air up here.

 

My wife used to smoke when we were in the bush but quit about the time we became more citified. I recall dorm room arguments back in my college days regarding smoking. Smokers would screech "There is no proof" and to a certain extent they were correct, not because there wasn't any proof but because it was a closely guarded secret, protected by the moneyed tobacco interests. Fortunately, government began making research inroads into the hazard and the public at large became more and more aware. Remember the coach of the Chicago Bears, Mike Ditka? He owned/owns a restaurant in Chicago and when the city stopped the smoking in his establishment he went nuts. Was going to run for President or something and get everybody straightened out. Haw. Laissez faire capitalism, anybody?

 

Anyway, back to HAL and their smoking policy. Like other commentators here, I look at this exercise as evolutionary. Hopefully, more sooner than later, they will tighten up smoking restrictions. Question right now is: How much of an attractant is HAL's current liberal smoking policy for smokers excluded from smoking on other lines? If there is a significant increase in smokers going up the gangway, well then, count us out.

 

Thank you. Glad to hear you are well. I bet you have some interesting stories from your bush pilot days:)

[LindaM]

My, that is just a wee bit condescending. After all these years, I had no idea that smoking or not smoking was part of a value system. Guess I'd better give away all those books, can the degree, and most certainly stay away from the great outdoors.:D

 

Educated people can have an addiction, as you indicated. However, I'm sure there are many more uneducated smokers out there, who would not be interested in a port specific European cruise. You can jump on me....it is the truth, if you've ever studied the demographics of smokers. The OP was spot on, even though it could be construed as condescending.

[Host Walt]

REMINDER - This thread is about HAL's on board smoking policies. The site is about cruising. It's not a health issues site nor is it a site discussing the health aspects of smoking.

 

Please avoid topic drift.

 

Thanks.