Changes in the last ten years?

[RuthC]

The newer ships don't have couches in the insides and I miss that.

That's not a universal. I've stayed in many inside cabins on all the ships except the Nieuw Amsterdam. The only one that didn't have a couch or a love seat was the single inside on the Prinsendam.

 

The flat screen TVs that were put on the shelf designed for the old style CRT TVs are difficult to control unless you can get the remote high enough to beam over the shelf... a nuisance to me but a generation of ships will cure that.

Someone told me a trick to work around that problem: bounce the remote signal off the ceiling. It works! :D

Aim for an area close to the TV, on the ceiling. Sometimes you have to work at it a bit to find the sweet spot.

[RMLincoln]

Someone told me a trick to work around that problem: bounce the remote signal off the ceiling. It works! :D

Aim for an area close to the TV, on the ceiling. Sometimes you have to work at it a bit to find the sweet spot.

 

Great suggestion! I will be able to try it on Maasdam in November.

 

As HAL moves their S class ships out of their fleet we will likely get to cruise on their Signature ships eventually, which I'm looking forward to! If they have couches in the outside rooms we will enjoy those :) I've only been on one Vista class ship, O'dam, and was very cramped in the inside (glad it was only a week) but apparently there are other insides with loveseats and I will pay more for more comforts next time. 3 Stars and still much to learn and more to cruise! m--

[VTcruisenut]

We haven't cruised since 2011 and I am wondering what kinds of changes have taken place since then? Is cruising still the best vacation deal- or should we be looking at all inclusives? your thoughts?

[cruisemom42]

Nobody seems to have commented upon the improved affordability of cruising on HAL . To the extent that the cost of virtually everything has gone up since 2004: postage, designer coffees, gasoline, air fare, food - you name it - the fact that the cost of cruising as a percentage of ones disposable income has actually decreased by remaining virtually the same in dollars, while the purchasing power of those dollars has been eroded --- should be seen as a positive.

 

Not everyone would consider this a plus. I would prefer paying the same % for my cruise that I did a decade ago or more if it meant still getting the same quality of food and level of personalized service. These are two of the three areas where I feel there has been the greatest decline.

 

The third area is ship refurbishment and infrastructure. Reading reports from passengers here over the last 2-3 years has at times given me pause about the condition and level at which some of HAL's ships seem to be maintained.

[navybankerteacher]

Not everyone would consider this a plus. I would prefer paying the same % for my cruise that I did a decade ago or more if it meant still getting the same quality of food and level of personalized service. These are two of the three areas where I feel there has been the greatest decline.

 

The third area is ship refurbishment and infrastructure. Reading reports from passengers here over the last 2-3 years has at times given me pause about the condition and level at which some of HAL's ships seem to be maintained.

 

Agreed - the cheapening of the experience is a negative. But "improved" affordability should be seen as something of an off-set. It is clear that all lines are seeking to attract customers: some by adding "enhancements" to the experience - such as water rides, skating rinks, carousels, etc.; all by adding specialty restaurants to offset the decline in quality of MDR offerings; and all mass market lines by holding down fares - which unavoidably has to mean cuts in service and maintenance.

 

As in virtually all industries, the customer base gets what it wants - which roughly translates to what it is willing to pay for.

[cruisemom42]

Agreed - the cheapening of the experience is a negative. But "improved" affordability should be seen as something of an off-set. It is clear that all lines are seeking to attract customers: some by adding "enhancements" to the experience - such as water rides, skating rinks, carousels, etc.; all by adding specialty restaurants to offset the decline in quality of MDR offerings; and all mass market lines by holding down fares - which unavoidably has to mean cuts in service and maintenance.

 

As in virtually all industries, the customer base gets what it wants - which roughly translates to what it is willing to pay for.

 

Yes...all very true. And I've learned to go elsewhere to find the cruise experience I previously could get on the mass-market lines. So long as those options exist, I suppose one shouldn't complain too much. :cool:

[sail7seas]

Yes...all very true. And I've learned to go elsewhere to find the cruise experience I previously could get on the mass-market lines. So long as those options exist, I suppose one shouldn't complain too much. :cool:

 

 

Why shouldn't one complain if they wish? :D

Just because the majority doesn't want to pay to get more why should not

those who want to complain about it do so? If everyone stays silent, the company thinks everyone is happy when perhaps that is not the case.

 

Speak up. Say what you like and don't like. Let them know the cutbacks you severely object to. How do they know if we don't say?

 

[cbr663]

Not everyone would consider this a plus. I would prefer paying the same % for my cruise that I did a decade ago or more if it meant still getting the same quality of food and level of personalized service. These are two of the three areas where I feel there has been the greatest decline.

 

The third area is ship refurbishment and infrastructure. Reading reports from passengers here over the last 2-3 years has at times given me pause about the condition and level at which some of HAL's ships seem to be maintained.

 

These have been my areas of greatest concern also. I have though come to accept that the current HAL product is the de facto product that it wants to provide, and it isn't a high quality offering. Then again, it isn't priced to be a high quality offering either. So, like you, I am looking elsewhere for something that better meets my needs.

[Lizzie68]

These have been my areas of greatest concern also. I have though come to accept that the current HAL product is the de facto product that it wants to provide, and it isn't a high quality offering. Then again, it isn't priced to be a high quality offering either. So, like you, I am looking elsewhere for something that better meets my needs.

 

When you see evident cuts in maintenance of furnishings, I worry there may be cuts in maintenance in areas we do not see. It kind of niggles at me - so yes, I would definitely prefer to pay more for the quality we used to have.

[cruisemom42]

Why shouldn't one complain if they wish? :D

Just because the majority doesn't want to pay to get more why should not

those who want to complain about it do so? If everyone stays silent, the company thinks everyone is happy when perhaps that is not the case.

 

Speak up. Say what you like and don't like. Let them know the cutbacks you severely object to. How do they know if we don't say?

 

 

I suppose we are all free to use the boards for whatever purpose works for us (within the guidelines, of course.)

 

However, I have never regarded these boards as the proper forum for voicing complaints about things that are best addressed directly to the cruise lines. The vast majority of persons reading these forums are cruisers, not representatives from the cruise lines. Are we posting here only for the few "THEM" that you mention in your reply?

 

In support of my position, I do not see anywhere in the stated purpose of Cruise Critic's online forums the mention of them being a place for people to complain to the cruise lines about perceived issues, cutbacks, etc.

 

The mission statement: "Our mission is provide a haven on the internet, if you will, that will provide a resource for those planning a cruise and for those that love cruising."

 

I prefer to view these boards as just that -- a resource to provide information to fellow cruisers about ships, ports, and life at sea in general. If that includes providing factual discussion of things like cutbacks or changes, that's fine. However, using the forums as a grindstone to repeatedly complain about things tends to make them an unpleasant place to visit for people who are excited about their upcoming cruise.

 

If one has valid complaints, by all means voice them -- to the company. The recent trend of broadcasting dissatisfactions "at large" to as many people as possible in an attempt to extort a favorable outcome from the company involved is not something I agree with.

 

Of course, you are free to have a different opinion, but you did ask!

[Lizzie68]

I suppose we are all free to use the boards for whatever purpose works for us (within the guidelines, of course.)

 

However, I have never regarded these boards as the proper forum for voicing complaints about things that are best addressed directly to the cruise lines. The vast majority of persons reading these forums are cruisers, not representatives from the cruise lines. Are we posting here only for the few "THEM" that you mention in your reply?

 

In support of my position, I do not see anywhere in the stated purpose of Cruise Critic's online forums the mention of them being a place for people to complain to the cruise lines about perceived issues, cutbacks, etc.

 

The mission statement: "Our mission is provide a haven on the internet, if you will, that will provide a resource for those planning a cruise and for those that love cruising."

 

I prefer to view these boards as just that -- a resource to provide information to fellow cruisers about ships, ports, and life at sea in general. If that includes providing factual discussion of things like cutbacks or changes, that's fine. However, using the forums as a grindstone to repeatedly complain about things tends to make them an unpleasant place to visit for people who are excited about their upcoming cruise.

 

If one has valid complaints, by all means voice them -- to the company. The recent trend of broadcasting dissatisfactions "at large" to as many people as possible in an attempt to extort a favorable outcome from the company involved is not something I agree with.

 

Of course, you are free to have a different opinion, but you did ask!

 

A great post and another time I wish there was a "Like" button. Or better yet, Applause, LOL! Yes, this gives us pause to think and while voicing our complaints and concerns, direct them also to the right area.

[SeagoingMom]

When you see evident cuts in maintenance of furnishings, I worry there may be cuts in maintenance in areas we do not see. It kind of niggles at me - so yes, I would definitely prefer to pay more for the quality we used to have.

And can you not do that by switching to a luxury line? Folks who used to shop at Kmart, Walmart, or Target, for example, might, as their personal quality requirements and incomes increase, move up to Penney's, Macy's, Neiman Marcus, even Barney's, believing that they would be paying more to get more. Isn't the same true of cruise lines?

 

If I choose to shop at Goodwill, or Belk, or Bergdorf Goodman, for that matter, I do not complain about these stores being below my standards.

[sail7seas]

So.... those who have a complaint should ask permission to voice that complaint?

Who gets to decide if they may or may not complain?

 

[cruisemom42]

So.... those who have a complaint should ask permission to voice that complaint?

Who gets to decide if they may or may not complain?

 

 

Where did I suggest something even remotely like that? :rolleyes: I began and ended my post by saying basically that folks are free to use the boards as they wish (within guidelines) and free to have a different opinion.

 

This forum beats all for folks reading things into others' posts.

[sail7seas]

Yes...all very true. And I've learned to go elsewhere to find the cruise experience I previously could get on the mass-market lines. So long as those options exist, I suppose one shouldn't complain too much. :cool:

 

Where did I suggest something even remotely like that? :rolleyes: I began and ended my post by saying basically that folks are free to use the boards as they wish (within guidelines) and free to have a different opinion.

 

This forum beats all for folks reading things into others' posts.

 

Just for the sake of clarification......

I underlined where I read it.

 

[sail7seas]

When you see evident cuts in maintenance of furnishings, I worry there may be cuts in maintenance in areas we do not see. It kind of niggles at me - so yes, I would definitely prefer to pay more for the quality we used to have.

 

That thought has occurred to me. I'm not sure I actually worry about but I have wondered from time to time.

 

[navybankerteacher]

I don't think anyone is questioning anyone else's right to complain - perhaps just commenting on the venue chosen. I am doubtful of anyone in Seattle putting much weight on what they read here: essentially anonymous posts, some of which are classifiable as angry rants rather than thoughtful suggestions.

 

I always do turn in the comment folder at the end of each cruise, with impressions and suggestions added. I have also written to HAL specifically raising my areas of concern; I have no great hopes of their taking very seriously my recommendations concerning making better efforts to maintain the special characteristics which won many of us to HAL in the first place, but I am more hopeful that those expressions might be noted more seriously than our comments here.

[navybankerteacher]

That thought has occurred to me. I'm not sure I actually worry about but I have wondered from time to time.

 

 

Visible cost cutting has to at least suggest the possibility of behind-the-scenes cost cutting.

[cruz chic]

There is no doubt that HAL reads these boards. They do take into consideration what people write so it's not unheard of. One instance is when they were going to do away with the medals for 100, 300, 500 days etc. While it means very little to me it did upset many people. Hal reversed it's decision on that. While I wouldn't put much hope on them reversing policies from words written on CC I don't understand why some feel the need to quiet others. If you don't want to read it there is a very easy solution to it. Stop reading.

[cruisemom42]

Just for the sake of clarification......

I underlined where I read it.

 

 

You do realize that to "suppose" means "to hold as an opinion"?

 

So to paraphrase, you read my saying that "It's my opinion that folks shouldn't complain too much" to somehow mean that I have said people have to ask permission to complain?

 

Or, to use a different example, if I had said "I suppose one shouldn't eat too much," you would interpret that as me having said people need to ask permission to eat? ;)

[cbr663]

When you see evident cuts in maintenance of furnishings, I worry there may be cuts in maintenance in areas we do not see. It kind of niggles at me - so yes, I would definitely prefer to pay more for the quality we used to have.

 

We do also. We had a winter cruise booked on the Westerdam and after the recent incident in June involving the Westerdam we cancelled it. I no longer felt confident sailing on the ship. We can see when cost cutting trumps quality, but it is much more difficult to see when cost cutting trumps safety. In our case, having a fire break out and then learning that the fire suppression equipment malfunctioned was too many incidents for us.

[sail7seas]

You do realize that to "suppose" means "to hold as an opinion"?

 

So to paraphrase, you read my saying that "It's my opinion that folks shouldn't complain too much" to somehow mean that I have said people have to ask permission to complain?

 

Or, to use a different example, if I had said "I suppose one shouldn't eat too much," you would interpret that as me having said people need to ask permission to eat? ;)

 

 

 

Yes, I do understand the concept of parsing a statement.

 

Depends what is is. :D

 

 

[cbr663]

<snip>

 

However, I have never regarded these boards as the proper forum for voicing complaints about things that are best addressed directly to the cruise lines. The vast majority of persons reading these forums are cruisers, not representatives from the cruise lines. Are we posting here only for the few "THEM" that you mention in your reply?

 

 

 

 

 

I prefer to view these boards as just that -- a resource to provide information to fellow cruisers about ships, ports, and life at sea in general. If that includes providing factual discussion of things like cutbacks or changes, that's fine. However, using the forums as a grindstone to repeatedly complain about things tends to make them an unpleasant place to visit for people who are excited about their upcoming cruise.

 

If one has valid complaints, by all means voice them -- to the company. The recent trend of broadcasting dissatisfactions "at large" to as many people as possible in an attempt to extort a favorable outcome from the company involved is not something I agree with.

 

 

Well stated.

[Lizzie68]

And can you not do that by switching to a luxury line? Folks who used to shop at Kmart, Walmart, or Target, for example, might, as their personal quality requirements and incomes increase, move up to Penney's, Macy's, Neiman Marcus, even Barney's, believing that they would be paying more to get more. Isn't the same true of cruise lines?

 

If I choose to shop at Goodwill, or Belk, or Bergdorf Goodman, for that matter, I do not complain about these stores being below my standards.

 

Are you equating HAL with Walmart, Target, K-Mart, etc?:rolleyes: HAL used to be considered a premium line, and still tout their "Signature of Excellence". Darn, I never realised they had officially downgraded to the level of Walmart.

[Lizzie68]

I find it sad that there are one or two posters who have nothing better to do than twist and turn someone else's comments and pick them to pieces. We don't all have to agree but we all benefit from sharing and respecting other opinions and information on cruising. That is what this forum is for.