Panama Expansion-Princess Plans

[vandalayceo]

On a recent cruise attended a most traveled luncheon, at our table a Senior Engineering Officer.

He offered the following regarding the expected completion of the Panama expansion in late 2105 or early 2016 as regarding present Princess plans.

Presently only Island and Coral are Panamax. Expansion will allow Grand, Gem, Caribbean and Crown class ships to transit canal.

Princess will deploy ships of these classes to Canal voyages-exactly which ones not yet decided, or he did not know.

Coral and/or Island will then be assigned to World Cruise duty.

Not sure what this implies for the small ships-sale?

[caribill]

It also suggests there may be less cruises around South America even though they have been quite popular.

[paul929207]

As to the small ships, the CEO of Carnival Corp has said the the Ocean Princess is for sail. Most likely the Pacific is available too.

[Thrak]

On a recent cruise attended a most traveled luncheon, at our table a Senior Engineering Officer.

He offered the following regarding the expected completion of the Panama expansion in late 2105 or early 2016 as regarding present Princess plans.

Presently only Island and Coral are Panamax. Expansion will allow Grand, Gem, Caribbean and Crown class ships to transit canal.

Princess will deploy ships of these classes to Canal voyages-exactly which ones not yet decided, or he did not know.

Coral and/or Island will then be assigned to World Cruise duty.

Not sure what this implies for the small ships-sale?

 

Please pardon my ignorance but what ships are "Gem" class? I'm unfamiliar with this term.

[vandalayceo]

Please pardon my ignorance but what ships are "Gem" class? I'm unfamiliar with this term.

 

Sub class of Grand category-Diamond and Sapphire.

[paul929207]

The expansion of the canal has been delayed several times. I doubt Princess will commit to anything until they can be use the project will be done.

[Kamloops50]

The latest I've heard is that the new expansion won't be ready until early to mid 2016. Some parts are only about 60% complete.

[AE_Collector]

Not sure what this implies for the small ships-sale?

 

Why would the two small ships being left off of a list of existing ships that will be able to go through the enlarged canal imply that the small ships might be sold? Obviously they will fit though the existing canal like the Coral and Island.

 

As to the small ships, the CEO of Carnival Corp has said the the Ocean Princess is for sail. Most likely the Pacific is available too.

 

How recently? We have been on the two small ships for our 6 most recent cruises this year and we heard while onboard that while the thought of selling them had been contemplated, the word is that the decision was made to keep them.

 

Terry

[piper28]

How recently? We have been on the two small ships for our 6 most recent cruises this year and we heard while onboard that while the thought of selling them had been contemplated, the word is that the decision was made to keep them.

 

Terry

 

It was an item in the most recent financial report, hmm, a month ago or so? Definitely looks like their days are numbered, and supposedly the Ocean is officially available for sale.

[Loonbeam]

The expectation is that the Ocean will be sold and the Pacific used for some more exotic itineraries for a while until eventual sale. As noted, its likely the Coral or Island will assume world cruise duties as some point, greatly increasing the capacity on these very lucrative routes. The other of the two will probably be assigned to various markets with smaller ports, like the med or asia to take advantage of their smaller size.

 

That said, I am not sure this means less SA routes. It will now be technically possible for a ship like the Grand to circumnavigate CA/SA and I can see that being a popular offering 2 or 3 times a year.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Island is being "ruined" (in the eyes of many) before taking up duty on the Venice-based Grand Mediterranean itinerary. Sadly, they will probably make the same changes to Coral once it no longer does the Panama and Alaska scenic-viewing itineraries. No more public aft-balconies, no more complete Promenade deck, no more Universe Lounge or "On the Bayou."

[Pam in CA]

As to the small ships, the CEO of Carnival Corp has said the the Ocean Princess is for sail. Most likely the Pacific is available too.

I heard that the Pacific is also available. It'll probably be sold after the Ocean. :(

[Host Jazzbeau]

I heard that the Pacific is also available. It'll probably be sold after the Ocean. :(

 

It makes sense. Once they sell Ocean, Pacific will be an orphan.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Host Jazzbeau

[caribill]

We have been on the two small ships for our 6 most recent cruises this year and we heard while onboard that while the thought of selling them had been contemplated, the word is that the decision was made to keep them.

 

From the text of the phone conference call Carnival Corp held recently with stock analysts:

 

In July, Princess announced plans to build another new ship which will enter service in 2017. The vessel will carry 3600 passengers and feature the successful design platform introduced by sister ships, Royal Princess and the aforementioned Regal Princess.

 

 

In keeping with our company’s strategy of measured capacity growth, this will be our only new build in 2017. And we also have plans underway to sell the smaller Ocean Princess.

[paul929207]

Why would the two small ships being left off of a list of existing ships that will be able to go through the enlarged canal imply that the small ships might be sold? Obviously they will fit though the existing canal like the Coral and Island.

 

 

 

How recently? We have been on the two small ships for our 6 most recent cruises this year and we heard while onboard that while the thought of selling them had been contemplated, the word is that the decision was made to keep them.

 

Terry

At the last quarterly earnings conference call. Late September of so.

[paul929207]

I heard that the Pacific is also available. It'll probably be sold after the Ocean. :(

The CEO only mentioned the Ocean P. but I am sure both would be available if the right offer is made.

[Loonbeam]

I had not heard about the changes to the aft balconies. Turning them into cabins?

 

Island is being "ruined" (in the eyes of many) before taking up duty on the Venice-based Grand Mediterranean itinerary. Sadly, they will probably make the same changes to Coral once it no longer does the Panama and Alaska scenic-viewing itineraries. No more public aft-balconies, no more complete Promenade deck, no more Universe Lounge or "On the Bayou."

[Host Jazzbeau]

I had not heard about the changes to the aft balconies. Turning them into cabins?

 

Yup

[fishywood]

It goes without saying that no cruises through the new locks will be open for booking until Princess (and all the other lines) have seen the locks working.

 

The wild card in all this speculation is the amount of the toll to pass through the new locks. While nothing has been announced for passenger ships, the toll for a 1400 foot cargo ship will be four times the current toll for a 980 foot cargo ship. So how well will a 14 or 15 day cruise with government taxes and fees equal to or likely greater than the fare of the lowest priced cabins (presumably in the $800 to $900 range) actually sell?

[kesdjmarouse]

The expansion of the canal has been delayed several times.

[Lovetocruiseprincess]

It goes without saying that no cruises through the new locks will be open for booking until Princess (and all the other lines) have seen the locks working.

 

The wild card in all this speculation is the amount of the toll to pass through the new locks. While nothing has been announced for passenger ships, the toll for a 1400 foot cargo ship will be four times the current toll for a 980 foot cargo ship. So how well will a 14 or 15 day cruise with government taxes and fees equal to or likely greater than the fare of the lowest priced cabins (presumably in the $800 to $900 range) actually sell?

 

A big price increase isn't something I had thought about. :( We've been through many times & would still like to do it again but not at a premium price. This might be a good time to check it out once more at the old prices. ;)

[BillB48]

It goes without saying that no cruises through the new locks will be open for booking until Princess (and all the other lines) have seen the locks working.

 

The wild card in all this speculation is the amount of the toll to pass through the new locks. While nothing has been announced for passenger ships, the toll for a 1400 foot cargo ship will be four times the current toll for a 980 foot cargo ship. So how well will a 14 or 15 day cruise with government taxes and fees equal to or likely greater than the fare of the lowest priced cabins (presumably in the $800 to $900 range) actually sell?

 

I don't think the toll structure for passenger ships will be that much of a wild card and should remain close to present levels. Presently the tolls for passenger ships is $134 per passenger berth and the passenger capacity on present Panamax ships is around the 2000 passenger mark. The current interior rate for a partial transit of the Island next month is a little over $700 (not a bad price for 11 days!) along with the fees, taxes etc. an additional $326. The price they need to charge for the cabin is separate from what they will have to fork over to the Canal. When (or if) the Ruby makes a trip through the new and improved locks then they have another 1000 passengers to pay the necessary taxes and fees. So for passenger ships I think they will be able to just pass along the cost to the end user (us) and not significantly impact their price the cruise line needs to charge.

 

I share your skepticism on the cargo ships. The largest container ships going through the Canal carry around 4000 twenty foot equivalent units (TEUs) paying in the vicinity of $300,000 per transit. The new locks are designed for ships carrying 12-13,000 TEUs. If they linearly increase the tolls that would put the tolls at almost a million bucks per transit. That would be about double for the what same sized ship pays at the Suez Canal. Panama Canal tolls are already in general higher than Suez, I don't think they want to price themselves out of business. Time will tell.