Koningsdam Promenade Deck

[Nghthawke]

I always tell people who are interested in taking a cruise for the first time to pick their ship carefully and to spend some time looking at the deck plans. One of the reasons hubby and I sail with HAL are the beautiful promenade decks. Nothing beats a walk on the promenade deck and those beautiful vistas of the rocky mountains; fjords; sunrises and sunsets; whales; dolphins and flying fish; etc. One of the first things we do when we board HAL is to walk the promenade deck and one of the very last things we do on disembarkation day is take a slow walks while the ship enters its final port and docks.

 

http://www.hollandamerica.com/main/DeckPlans.action?ship=ko&deck=p&deep=0

 

Now, maybe I am not reading the deck plans carefully; and maybe the image of the Koningsdam is inaccurate; but has anyone else noticed that the lifeboats will be completely blocking the views on the promenade deck?

 

Link to Promenade Deck Walk on the Nieuw Amsterdam:

Edited March 15, 2015 by Nghthawke
link to deck plan

[CowPrincess]

Looking at the deck plan that you linked, that certainly isn't like the HAL promenade decks we've come to know and love. :(

[visagrunt]

I think it's very difficult to know until we actually see the boats in place.

 

Clearly the balconies on Deck 4 and the cut in profile of the promenade suggest that the boats won't ride as high as they do on the Vista/Signature classes. But on those two classes you need a good 2 m of clearance to allow for people walking under the boats. If the boats are hanging outboard of the railing, however, you can bring them down somewhat; allow for views from the balconies and allow for views from the promenade.

 

HAL has made a very specific point of retaining the promenade--having made that point, I have faith that designers won't screw it up.

[mountainmare]

I jump in before others bring up the brilliant designers who ruined the back of the Veendam and Rotterdam with poolettes.

[VioletHorse]

Isn't lifeboat placement due to newer SOLAS regulations which new builds must comply with?

 

Pehaps some of the CC members with more technical knowledge of maritime rules could explain.

[ScriptOhio]

I think it could have to do with eliminating "restricted view" balconies (on deck 4) which results in more revenue for the cruise line.

[visagrunt]

I jump in before others bring up the brilliant designers who ruined the back of the Veendam and Rotterdam with poolettes.

 

I have no problem with the aft retreat concept. The sea view pools are a waste of space in my view. (shrug)

[Susie51]

Isn't lifeboat placement due to newer SOLAS regulations which new builds must comply with?

 

Pehaps some of the CC members with more technical knowledge of maritime rules could explain.

 

The placement of the lifeboats level with the promenade deck seems like in the case of an emergency they would be more quickly accessible.

[ZSandy25]

Oh, I love the promenade, we love it so much we have twice booked lanai cabins so we could "live on the promenade". Hope we will be able to take that stroll on the new ship.

[foodsvcmgr]

If I understand them correctly, latest SOLAS regs require the lifeboats to be AT the embarkation level, NOT to have to be lowered to the emergency embarkation deck point. Hence this design, similar to what is found on CELEBRITY SOLSTICE class ships, the promenade view is obstructed except in places where no lifeboats are mounted.

[sail7seas]

I always tell people who are interested in taking a cruise for the first time to pick their ship carefully and to spend some time looking at the deck plans. One of the reasons hubby and I sail with HAL are the beautiful promenade decks. Nothing beats a walk on the promenade deck and those beautiful vistas of the rocky mountains; fjords; sunrises and sunsets; whales; dolphins and flying fish; etc. One of the first things we do when we board HAL is to walk the promenade deck and one of the very last things we do on disembarkation day is take a slow walks while the ship enters its final port and docks.

 

http://www.hollandamerica.com/main/DeckPlans.action?ship=ko&deck=p&deep=0

 

Now, maybe I am not reading the deck plans carefully; and maybe the image of the Koningsdam is inaccurate; but has anyone else noticed that the lifeboats will be completely blocking the views on the promenade deck?

 

Link to Promenade Deck Walk on the Nieuw Amsterdam:

 

 

 

From all we have read here from folks who have also questioned about HAL's usual fully walk around deck, Koningsdam will have the life boats on the deck and if you can walk past all the way around, it will be a lot of dodging to get past. No one who loves the HAL walk deck are going to love this change, it doesn't seem.

 

[VioletHorse]

If I understand them correctly, latest SOLAS regs require the lifeboats to be AT the embarkation level, NOT to have to be lowered to the emergency embarkation deck point. Hence this design, similar to what is found on CELEBRITY SOLSTICE class ships, the promenade view is obstructed except in places where no lifeboats are mounted.

 

 

Thanks for the info. I thought I'd read something like that on CC, but it was a couple of years ago. Those lovely views from the promenade are going to be a thing of the past as the older ships are retired or leave the fleet.

[Topsham]

If I understand them correctly, latest SOLAS regs require the lifeboats to be AT the embarkation level, NOT to have to be lowered to the emergency embarkation deck point. Hence this design, similar to what is found on CELEBRITY SOLSTICE class ships, the promenade view is obstructed except in places where no lifeboats are mounted.

 

 

Brand new... ROYAL VIKING... note the location and open boat deck. I know at least two other ships that are planned for the next two/three years and the deck is open and boats are in davits as Viking Star. This is a designer/owner to make up this choice.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Topsham

[Topo Gigio]

Off topic, but any word of when the rest of her deployment will be published?

[arzz]

The saddest part about the promenade deck on the Konigsdam for me will be the loss of outdoor space that is shaded where you can either walk next to the waves or sit on a classic wooden steamer chair and commune with the sky and water in the shade.

 

I am very sensitive to the sun - I burn and I get hives. I have really enjoyed HAL's wrap around promenades for the shade.

 

We took a Seaborn cruise a couple of years ago and really missed the promenade decks of Holland America. There was NO shaded outside venue on that ship. I would not do that ship again for that reason.

 

I know that the steel is cut and she is well into production but possibly HAL could create some shaded outdoor public space on the Konigsdam where one could commune with the ocean in the shade and NOT have to pay extra for it like you do with the cabanas. Verandas are very nice but they are private and not social - one of the great joys of cruising is the camaraderie - especially on the long cruises. Public space in the shade please.

[Topsham]

I feel sorry for your problem with the new ship. I can see the only place where you can have some shade and see the sea.... aft end of Lido Deck... port side..... under the overhang of the Panorama Deck above it. There is a bar over on starboard side, but the port side is over. Only problem... the sun moves every day and the captain keeps changes the courses. For sure... 50% of the sun will be on that side. Other problem.. it looks that area under the overhang is glazed. It is going to be hot for sure.

 

Having a balcony does not help either... again... 50% of the time is on the wrong side.... unless you only do transatlantic crossing.

 

Can't help and the building is too advanced at this time. Of course.... 15 other HAL ships will have Lower Promenade Deck for many years.

[foodsvcmgr]

CELEBRITY REFLECTION and I understand recently QUEEN VICTORIA have added nice canvas "awnings" along various sections of the outside decks to offer a shady alternative. On REFLECTION a couple weeks ago and observed at least 25% of lounge chairs outside offered at least some degree of sun protection.

 

This would appear to be neither that costly or that difficult to do, requiring no real structural alterations. If this is not already being planned for KONINGSDAM, can't imagine why it could not be added in response to passenger demand.

[arzz]

foodsvcmgr

 

That was my point. I know it is too late to recover a proper promenade deck but I cannot imagine that other space could not be arranged somewhere on the outside decks. I cannot be the only person around who limits their exposure to pure sun. I would think such an area could be very popular.

[bishop84]

View of the Koningsdam at Maghera showing the Promenade Deck without the lifeboats. Looks like the balconies on Beethoven Deck behind the boats will not get much of a view or sun! Sorry tried to make the photo smaller and post it but couldn't.

 

Edited March 16, 2015 by bishop84

[Vict0riann]

That's a great picture, and the best size to examine closely. Thanks.

[chengkp75]

Its not that SOLAS requires the boats to be at the embarkation level, but that the new, much larger boats are too heavy for the old gravity davit, so they are hung in fixed davits. The Norwegian Breakaway class has a similar promenade deck with the boats hanging in the way. I believe they have made some public balcony areas above to give the view, but not the walking and viewing experience. The fixed davits also, as another poster noted, does away with obstructed view cabins by placing the boats outside public venues, and creates more balcony cabins.

[Topsham]

True Cheng.

 

Looks like KONINGSDAM is using the same or very similar boats for the Nw AMSTERDAM. Nw A using 3 tenders and 6 lifeboats + emergency boat. KONINGDAM is planning 3 tenders and 7 lifeboats and a smaller lifeboat.

 

Note... I'm saying these numbers on EACH side.

 

The tenders and boats are not the large boats now using on the large NCL ship. Also... the davits on the Nw A, EUDAM and other Vistas seem to be using the same design. The KONINGSDAM also the same design.... the different is that 'pivot' point for each arm is sited in different place. On Vistas.... the pivot is high on a built pillar. The KONINGSDAM arms are pivoted onto the deck itself. No difference.... just what the designers... a nice wooden boat deck with a view OR no boat deck but a view for the balcony cabins that would be behind the boat. Owners choice.

 

I must that I do like the 'boardwalk' the NCL ships above the boats. Best of all worlds.

 

Stephen

[chengkp75]

True Cheng.

 

Looks like KONINGSDAM is using the same or very similar boats for the Nw AMSTERDAM. Nw A using 3 tenders and 6 lifeboats + emergency boat. KONINGDAM is planning 3 tenders and 7 lifeboats and a smaller lifeboat.

 

Note... I'm saying these numbers on EACH side.

 

The tenders and boats are not the large boats now using on the large NCL ship. Also... the davits on the Nw A, EUDAM and other Vistas seem to be using the same design. The KONINGSDAM also the same design.... the different is that 'pivot' point for each arm is sited in different place. On Vistas.... the pivot is high on a built pillar. The KONINGSDAM arms are pivoted onto the deck itself. No difference.... just what the designers... a nice wooden boat deck with a view OR no boat deck but a view for the balcony cabins that would be behind the boat. Owners choice.

 

I must that I do like the 'boardwalk' the NCL ships above the boats. Best of all worlds.

 

Stephen

 

Ah, I've looked closer. Some renderings show the boats permanently hung outboard on fixed davits and some show them swung inboard. I see on the actual construction pictures that there are in fact swinging davits. So, yes, by placing the boat outboard of the promenade deck, instead of above it like older ships, you increase the space in the ship, and reduce the "wastage" of space required by the old gravity davits.

 

And now that muster locations are generally inside the ship, there is no need for a larger promenade, so we can block that space up with boats, and when they are swung out, there is enough room for gathering people to load the boat. I know most people like the indoors musters, but what they don't realize is that if the fire is in the same zone as their muster station, the first thing done is to shut off all ventilation for the entire zone, so they will most likely be moved outdoors at that time.

Edited March 16, 2015 by chengkp75

[Topsham]

ChEng...

 

 

 

It looks that the keel of the boats will be over on the deck... but close to the ship's side. Just partly exposed. Just a few distance to swing the boats out. Mind... it would only moments to move the boat as in the Vista class. What I don't like about modern ships is that they cannot be moved should they loose power.... and even with the reserve in the hydraulic system. You know... hydraulics and one pin hole and you loose the system... even it only one boat isolated. Have enough experience of hydraulic systems.... hatch covers, shell side doors, winches etc. It is always something small that makes the whole system 'useless'!

 

I do not agree with the plans to have musters inside. For a muster... fine. For a real emergency.... you need people outside where they need to be. Close one fire zone OK? I don't want to another 500 or 1,000 people waiting on the other side of a fire door. We learned a lot of the loss of CONCORDIA. Too expensive to go back to the old days.... until it happens again.

[Vict0riann]

I don't think I will ever want to sail on her. I'll stick with the smaller ships.