Will you reduce DSC

[sjbdtz]

There was a post in my email alerts but not on the thread that summed it all up perfectly; do people really think NCL has provided MULTIPLE unscheduled raises to crew in the past 4 months? That would be completely unprecedented.

 

We don't know the machinations happening on the back-end. This was the first increase since 2009 and NCL may have thought that $0.95 was tolerable by passengers because it was less than $1, but the crew union may have argued saying it was an insufficient increase - forcing the line to increase a 2nd time.

 

 

Would you advocate for NCL providing guests a breakdown like Royal Caribbean (and sister lines) and Carnival (and sister lines) do? I think that would put to rest a lot of noise.

 

No. I wouldn't. I don't tell them how much I make, and I don't know why they should tell me how much they make.

 

I don't ask for the Hotel Director's share of the cruise fare (since they're not part of the DSC), so why should I need to know what the Room Steward makes? It's just none of my business whatsoever.

 

I trust - based on levels of voluntary crew churn - that they consider their compensation reasonable in the context of the DSC, and I leave it between them and their employer.

 

Stephen

 

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[LrgPizza]

The last time there was a big debate about what happens with the DSC, Chengkp75 posted a very thorough explanation (based on his first-hand knowledge) of how this money is used. I'd search for it for you guys if I cared about this at all, but I don't.

[sjbdtz]

The last time there was a big debate about what happens with the DSC, Chengkp75 posted a very thorough explanation (based on his first-hand knowledge) of how this money is used. I'd search for it for you guys if I cared about this at all, but I don't.

 

CruiseCritic editors also wrote an article on the topic: http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=132

 

 

 

 

Stephen

 

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[LMaxwell]

 

However, for somebody who doesn't remove the DSC you certainly seem to advocate on behalf of those who do, unless I've misinterpreted your position.

 

 

My position is the contract states it is a discretionary charge, so therefore people retain the option to choose how they want to handle their business and it is hunky dory with the company. They can leave the DSC on and give nothing extra. They can turn the DSC off and give nothing., They can turn DSC off and walk around handing out $50 bills to everyone they pass. They can alter DSC up or down by any amount they want. I believe in people making their own choices and not telling others what to do, or bullying them or hiding behind a keyboard and hurling insulting names and childish antics.

 

 

I haven't prepaid my DSC because I do not believe in paying months in advance for service that I may or may not get. I view the token discount on prepaying as the same as reducing DSC onboard; it is less money from the guest pocket subsidizing the pool plain and simple no matter how anyone spins it. If service levels are what I expect them to be, then the higher DSC amount isn't an issue for me. However, with multiple DSC increases in a short period of time and the implementation of more drink and dining packages NCL have set up a situation where since they keep raising the charges I am going to pay I expect better services, but the situations they have set up create just the opposite reality. They are backing themselves into a corner by implying better service but creating situations where that will be difficult or impossible to meet.

 

I believe the guest should always retain the right to pay for subjective items such as personal services however they best see fit based on the services received. Do *some* people remove charges and stiff everyone? probably. That's unfortunate and not in the right spirit of things, in my opinion, but unfortunately I have to accept that some people do that and not get myself worked up over it. That's the price paid for the rest of us to retain our options. There is always a fringe that will do things at the extremes, but you can't punish the group as a whole for that (not unless they are school age children).

 

I hope this clarifies my thoughts to you about this.

[Knobhdy]

Would you advocate for NCL providing guests a breakdown like Royal Caribbean (and sister lines) and Carnival (and sister lines) do? I think that would put to rest a lot of noise.

 

I really think the best way to quiet this issue (and something that ought to be done in many industries in the US at least) is to raise the costs of the cruise - or a dinner out at a restaurant, or a haircut, etc. - so that all employers compensate their employees fairly and sufficiently, and we as the customers are not required to think about this beyond deciding if we can afford to buy the product in the first place.

This is how my compensations works, it's probably how many people on these forums compensation works, so why can't it be good enough for all industries?

[sparks1093]

I really think the best way to quiet this issue (and something that ought to be done in many industries in the US at least) is to raise the costs of the cruise - or a dinner out at a restaurant, or a haircut, etc. - so that all employers compensate their employees fairly and sufficiently, and we as the customers are not required to think about this beyond deciding if we can afford to buy the product in the first place.

This is how my compensations works, it's probably how many people on these forums compensation works, so why can't it be good enough for all industries?

 

As I understand it tipping came about because those in traditionally tipped positions have a lot of down time associated with their jobs. I used to be a bellhop as a teenager and spent a lot of my time just sitting in the lobby waiting for someone to check in or need me to bring them a bucket of ice. Anyway, I know a gentleman that works as a bellhop for a resort hotel and he is pulling in over $50k a year, mostly in tips. How much would the resort have to raise their rates in order to pay him that salary, especially when most of the time is "idle"?

[jackson bernard]

As long as the contract says I can remove it I will. NCL doesn't seem to have a problem letting people remove it, so why other passengers do is beyond me.

[Out to sea!]

Contract also says you agree to terms and conditions. In terms and conditions it says the DSC is a "prepaid gratuity" that is referred as a service charge.

 

So what one is it?????? Don't say it's the same! A gratuity and service charge are completely different!!!

 

Yes, terms and conditions of the contract. :rolleyes:

[Out to sea!]

5. NCL's DSC is lower than a lot of other lines, and is quite small when compared to the entire cost of the cruise. Even with the small increase, we are still getting a bargain.

 

So just which of the major cruise lines have a higher DSC/Auto-tip that NCL?

[dna529]

So just which of the major cruise lines have a higher DSC/Auto-tip that NCL?

 

I would love to know this. I've sailed on Carnival and Royal in the past year and both are lower than NCL.

[DMH15]

My position is the contract states it is a discretionary charge, so therefore people retain the option to choose how they want to handle their business and it is hunky dory with the company. They can leave the DSC on and give nothing extra. They can turn the DSC off and give nothing., They can turn DSC off and walk around handing out $50 bills to everyone they pass. They can alter DSC up or down by any amount they want. I believe in people making their own choices and not telling others what to do, or bullying them or hiding behind a keyboard and hurling insulting names and childish antics.

 

 

I haven't prepaid my DSC because I do not believe in paying months in advance for service that I may or may not get. I view the token discount on prepaying as the same as reducing DSC onboard; it is less money from the guest pocket subsidizing the pool plain and simple no matter how anyone spins it. If service levels are what I expect them to be, then the higher DSC amount isn't an issue for me. However, with multiple DSC increases in a short period of time and the implementation of more drink and dining packages NCL have set up a situation where since they keep raising the charges I am going to pay I expect better services, but the situations they have set up create just the opposite reality. They are backing themselves into a corner by implying better service but creating situations where that will be difficult or impossible to meet.

 

I believe the guest should always retain the right to pay for subjective items such as personal services however they best see fit based on the services received. Do *some* people remove charges and stiff everyone? probably. That's unfortunate and not in the right spirit of things, in my opinion, but unfortunately I have to accept that some people do that and not get myself worked up over it. That's the price paid for the rest of us to retain our options. There is always a fringe that will do things at the extremes, but you can't punish the group as a whole for that (not unless they are school age children).

 

I hope this clarifies my thoughts to you about this.

 

Gee, I don't see higher prices as a promise of an improvement but rather keeping up with inflation. When the price of my box of cereal goes up I don't expect it to be better in some way. It just costs them more so they pass it on to the consumer.

 

I am thrilled to honor any increase in DSC. If I am one of the lucky ones in this world who has the good fortune to travel and cruise I am happy to show my gratitude in this way. I choose not to delve into the machinations of the details.

 

You may not agree. But plenty do. So is the way of the world.

[abe3]

As long as the contract says I can remove it I will. NCL doesn't seem to have a problem letting people remove it, so why other passengers do is beyond me.

 

 

Just remember to bring your bag of pennies with you so you can tip accordingly.

[LMaxwell]

Just remember to bring your bag of pennies with you so you can tip accordingly.

 

Shame on you. We've been having a nice discussion today on the topic. That sort of comment is not necessary. You're just trying to stir the pot Maywell-style and I think the forum has had enough of that.

[Jane Don]

I would MUCH rather have a higher, stable income....than the weekly HOPE that somebody might take pity on me and give me a tip.

 

I'd be giving the exact same service in either situation, because I take pride in my work, and frankly I need the job - it's better than most and I don't want to lose it.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

 

 

I disagree. Here is why This will also clear up the service/charge vs. prepaid gratuity argument.

 

If a business demands a mandatory 18% gratuity for certain services, parties of 6 or more for example, they are protecting their staff and can not, by law, take a cut. If however a business says there is an 18% service charge for a service, the business is under no legal obligation to hand it over to employees.

 

NCL does not call the DSC gratuities, they call it a service charge. They do not even call the 18% on drink and dining packages a gratuity, they call it a service charge. Even though they often include the word gratuity in explanatory language, in the contact they are all referred to as service charges.

 

Royal Caribbean calls their daily charge a gratuity. This means that passengers can be sure that the staff receives 100% of the pool. This is why I will gladly pay the gratuities on RCI but will not put a dime into the DSC on NCL. On NCL it is reported as revenue and on RCI it is not.

 

As someone who has worked in a pooled environment, I can honestly tell you that I would have jumped at the chance to keep my own tips. Anyone who regularly provides quality service would agree with me. Couple that with gratuity vs. service charge argument and I feel that the NCL staff that serves me would rather have cash tips.

 

NCL chooses the language it uses carefully. They never promise that all of your DSC goes to employees. And they are sure to add the term service charge when forcing you to pay 18%. Some people are fine with this. I am not. By removing the DSC and tipping with cash I ensure that NCL does not get a cut of my tip money except for the mandatory 18%.

 

It is entirely possible that NCL gives all of the collected services charges to the crew, but they do not have to and admits to holding some back for "fleet wide crew welfare programs". Legally, they can keep it all.

[rvsullivan]

I disagree. Here is why This will also clear up the service/charge vs. prepaid gratuity argument.

 

If a business demands a mandatory 18% gratuity for certain services, parties of 6 or more for example, they are protecting their staff and can not, by law, take a cut. If however a business says there is an 18% service charge for a service, the business is under no legal obligation to hand it over to employees.

 

NCL does not call the DSC gratuities, they call it a service charge. They do not even call the 18% on drink and dining packages a gratuity, they call it a service charge. Even though they often include the word gratuity in explanatory language, in the contact they are all referred to as service charges.

 

Royal Caribbean calls their daily charge a gratuity. This means that passengers can be sure that the staff receives 100% of the pool. This is why I will gladly pay the gratuities on RCI but will not put a dime into the DSC on NCL. On NCL it is reported as revenue and on RCI it is not.

 

As someone who has worked in a pooled environment, I can honestly tell you that I would have jumped at the chance to keep my own tips. Anyone who regularly provides quality service would agree with me. Couple that with gratuity vs. service charge argument and I feel that the NCL staff that serves me would rather have cash tips.

 

NCL chooses the language it uses carefully. They never promise that all of your DSC goes to employees. And they are sure to add the term service charge when forcing you to pay 18%. Some people are fine with this. I am not. By removing the DSC and tipping with cash I ensure that NCL does not get a cut of my tip money except for the mandatory 18%.

 

It is entirely possible that NCL gives all of the collected services charges to the crew, but they do not have to and admits to holding some back for "fleet wide crew welfare programs". Legally, they can keep it all.

 

And there is nothing on the RCI website nor any of the other lines stating they "must" give it to the employee's. Each line is expected to pay it out and not take it as income, but nowhere does RCI or the other lines state they give it all away. RCI does state what the division of money is by department. Other than that, RCI seems to mirror almost exactly what NCL is doing down to the penny in charges. Only difference I see is that RCI charges the DSC on every passenger, and NCL only those over 3 years old.

[Jane Don]

And there is nothing on the RCI website nor any of the other lines stating they "must" give it to the employee's. Each line is expected to pay it out and not take it as income, but nowhere does RCI or the other lines state they give it all away. RCI does state what the division of money is by department. Other than that, RCI seems to mirror almost exactly what NCL is doing down to the penny in charges. Only difference I see is that RCI charges the DSC on every passenger, and NCL only those over 3 years old.

 

Wrong. It is the law.

 

Here is an easy to understand lawyer's accounting.

 

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/tip-pooling-credits-service-employees-29804.html

[sparks1093]

Wrong. It is the law.

 

Here is an easy to understand lawyer's accounting.

 

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/tip-pooling-credits-service-employees-29804.html

 

US law applies to foreign flagged ships?;)

[NLH Arizona]

Would you advocate for NCL providing guests a breakdown like Royal Caribbean (and sister lines) and Carnival (and sister lines) do? I think that would put to rest a lot of noise.

I could care less if they tell me how it is divided out or who gets what, that is their business. If I don't like how they do their business, I'll go to another line that more fits with what I'm looking for.

 

I could also care less if someone removes the DSC, what I don't like is those that try to convince others to do the same, because they (1) don't like that the company doesn't tell them how the money is divided or (2) don't like some of the recent changes and want to penalize the crew for something management does.

[NLH Arizona]

I

 

NCL does not call the DSC gratuities, they call it a service charge. They do not even call the 18% on drink and dining packages a gratuity, they call it a service charge. Even though they often include the word gratuity in explanatory language, in the contact they are all referred to as service charges.

 

Royal Caribbean calls their daily charge a gratuity. This means that passengers can be sure that the staff receives 100% of the pool. This is why I will gladly pay the gratuities on RCI but will not put a dime into the DSC on NCL. On NCL it is reported as revenue and on RCI it is not.

 

And P&O calls it a discretionary service charge, but also refers to it as tips.

 

We have no idea how NCL categorizes it in their tax documents and FWIW, here is what NCL calls the 18 percent charge for spa, bar and specialty restaurants in the FAQ: Additionally, there is an 18% gratuity and spa service charge added for all spa and salon services, as well as an 18% gratuity and beverage service charge added for all beverage purchases and an 18% gratuity and specialty service charge added to all specialty restaurant dining and entertainment based dining.

[Jane Don]

I could care less if they tell me how it is divided out or who gets what, that is their business. If I don't like how they do their business, I'll go to another line that more fits with what I'm looking for.

 

I could also care less if someone removes the DSC, what I don't like is those that try to convince others to do the same, because they (1) don't like that the company doesn't tell them how the money is divided or (2) don't like some of the recent changes and want to penalize the crew for something management does.

 

See that is where perspective come into play. I honestly feel that by arguing for cash tips I AM enhancing crew earnings, not penalizing them. You obviously see it differently. I would never give the owner of a restaurant 20% of my bill and trust that they give it to the staff. And I won't do it on a ship either. Because I believe it is my business how the DSC is divided.

[Jane Don]

And P&O calls it a discretionary service charge, but also refers to it as tips.

 

We have no idea how NCL categorizes it in their tax documents and FWIW, here is what NCL calls the 18 percent charge for spa, bar and specialty restaurants in the FAQ: Additionally, there is an 18% gratuity and spa service charge added for all spa and salon services, as well as an 18% gratuity and beverage service charge added for all beverage purchases and an 18% gratuity and specialty service charge added to all specialty restaurant dining and entertainment based dining.

 

By adding the term service charge they are protecting themselves from having to give those monies directly to employees and can instead declare it as revenue. The word gratuity is there solely for marketing.

[NLH Arizona]

See that is where perspective come into play. I honestly feel that by arguing for cash tips I AM enhancing crew earnings, not penalizing them. You obviously see it differently. I would never give the owner of a restaurant 20% of my bill and trust that they give it to the staff. And I won't do it on a ship either. Because I believe it is my business how the DSC is divided.

You might think you are enhancing some of the crews earnings, but you are penalizing those crew members who work very hard to make your vacation outstanding, just because you don't see them. Not to mention, you have no proof that the cruise lines is taking one single dime from the DSC for their revenue.

[Guest phd1003]

See that is where perspective come into play. I honestly feel that by arguing for cash tips I AM enhancing crew earnings, not penalizing them. You obviously see it differently. I would never give the owner of a restaurant 20% of my bill and trust that they give it to the staff. And I won't do it on a ship either. Because I believe it is my business how the DSC is divided.

 

Even if they break down the DSC for you, will it really change anything? If you have a fundamental distrust for NCL then you will still dispute it, and tip approximately 10 of the 800+ crew members who would have otherwise benefitted

[Snowrose]

Even if they break down the DSC for you, will it really change anything? If you have a fundamental distrust for NCL then you will still dispute it, and tip approximately 10 of the 800+ crew members who would have otherwise benefitted

 

Okay, I'm not going to be changing my DSC but this thinking is flawed, IMO.

 

We pay the 800+ crew members with the funds from our booked passage on a ship.

 

OTOH, a *tip* - which is what the DSC is supposed to be - is a show of appreciation for the select few that you yourself have interacted with, thanking them for good service.

 

A tip is not meant to go to every crew member. Just like the tip you give a waiter/waitress at a restaurant doesn't go to every other employee of a restaurant.

[sjbdtz]

I can't. The only financials available to anyone are those required by the SEC. And those are only for NCLH. I think you are probably and investor

 

 

The most ironic thing about ALL of this... I am an investor (100 shares - the minimum required to get the Shareholder benefit).

 

IF I thought they took the DSC into income, I'd immediately buy more shares because I think it would be the smart management action.

 

In reality, I'm convinced they don't - because they don't WANT that income flowing through to their bottom line. They WANT it segregated, so it's not taxable in their hands.