Land-lubbers vs Cruisers - an analysis

[shedridt]

I actually posted this & feared to return to it for fear of...well...you know! & so I haven't been back to it for days until now. How encouraged I am - but then I was amongst Azamara cruisers & shouldn't have feared - I was amongst friends!

 

My husband & I will miss cruising but as I noted, we seem to have exhausted destinations we want to visit & we don't like just cruising around aimlessly. The ships whose cruisers really like being on the ship more than going somewhere are not a good match for us. That's what makes Azamara a good match for us but alas - we've been to most of their ports!

 

What to do next!!! I am thinking I'd SO like to combine a cruise with a land tour - & I SO want to see Pompeii & Santorini & Rhodes - but combining all of that with a road trip seems unlikely. I have found, however, that I am involved in a unexpected love affair with France & as I've told friends - I could vacation there every year for the rest of my life. Rosetta Stone has a perpetual customer in me!

 

Many many thanks for your thoughtful & kind comments to my post!

[shedridt]

Your response touched my heart. We intend to go for all the gusto we can, whether on land, sea or in the air!

[shedridt]

My moniker on another travel site is 7continentsdone - for good reason.

Edited June 26, 2015 by shedridt
thought better of it!

[Globehoppers]

Great subject.

 

They are different beasties and we like both, especially cruising on Azamara.

 

We enjoy the cultural immersion provided by self-drive land vacations. A two-week circumnavigation of Ireland several years ago was perfect, including weather. We planned two nights at each location - small hotels and one castle. This enable us to really enjoy the locations without too much packing/unpacking. The ability to sample local fare for all meals was another benefit. We have also taken a safari with Tauck where everything was planned, hotels arranged, and a full-time guide. Absolutely fantastic. I also like cruising, to include transits. Last Azamara cruise on Journey was from Mumbai to Piraeus and offered superb ports to include Dubai, Aqaba/Eilat (Petra, Wadi Rum, Jerusalem), Suez transit and Cyprus. Several stretches with back to back days at sea.

 

On the flip side we do not enjoy mega cruise ships and the concomitant "slot pulls" and "cabin crawls" some like to arrange. The M&Ms are also horrible events - like a bar scene from your 20s. Worst cruise ever was an Atlantic transit on Oasis.

 

I caveat my comments by adding that we are very experienced travelers. "Going local" is not an issue. I am an American who was raised in Europe through high school, traveled the world for 30 years in the US Navy, and lived in Belgrade and Bucharest in the late 1980s.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Globehoppers

[mare s.]

"What to do next!!! I am thinking I'd SO like to combine a cruise with a land tour - & I SO want to see Pompeii & Santorini & Rhodes - but combining all of that with a road trip seems unlikely. I have found, however, that I am involved in a unexpected love affair with France & as I've told friends - I could vacation there every year for the rest of my life. Rosetta Stone has a perpetual customer in me!"

 

Thanks to Azamara I got to check off on my bucket list Greece and (this Fall) Pompeii and Herculaneum. I don't think we would have seen either on a totally land based trip. But you feel about France the way I do about Italy. We've been there on land based as well as cruise based vacations and I think I will never tire of it. But there are only a few new places I still would love to visit....Iceland being #1 on my list. And there is still so much of the U.S. I haven't seen. So in years to come, I think there will be more land based vacations and perhaps just a few cruises (because I don't mind "cruising aimlessly", at least for a few days!)

 

We are all so fortunate to be able to do any of this!

[BBMacLaird]

"What to do next!!! I am thinking I'd SO like to combine a cruise with a land tour - & I SO want to see Pompeii & Santorini & Rhodes - but combining all of that with a road trip seems unlikely. I have found, however, that I am involved in a unexpected love affair with France & as I've told friends - I could vacation there every year for the rest of my life. Rosetta Stone has a perpetual customer in me!"

 

Thanks to Azamara I got to check off on my bucket list Greece and (this Fall) Pompeii and Herculaneum. I don't think we would have seen either on a totally land based trip. But you feel about France the way I do about Italy. We've been there on land based as well as cruise based vacations and I think I will never tire of it. But there are only a few new places I still would love to visit....Iceland being #1 on my list. And there is still so much of the U.S. I haven't seen. So in years to come, I think there will be more land based vacations and perhaps just a few cruises (because I don't mind "cruising aimlessly", at least for a few days!)

 

We are all so fortunate to be able to do any of this!

 

Hi mare s,

Have you added your idea of Pompeii, Santorini and Rhodes to the Azamara Asks thread for 2018?

Here's a link:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2161186

[mare s.]

Hi mare s,

Have you added your idea of Pompeii, Santorini and Rhodes to the Azamara Asks thread for 2018?

Here's a link:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2161186

 

Actually, I was quoting Shedrit's post about Pompeii, Santorini, and Rhodes. We did the Azamara cruise of Greece and Eastern Med on our very first cruise with Azamara. And we're doing Western Med (which includes Pompeii) this Fall. But Bonnie, I'm giving a big hint about Iceland for upcoming years...preferably with lots of overnights! ;-)

mare

[donaldsc]

You can also combine them. On a recent cruise to the Baltics, we did 3 weeks in England pre-cruise and 1 week in London (yes, I know that London is in England) post cruise. The 2 week baltic cruise morphed into a 6 week trip.

 

This fall we are doing a Celebrity cruise in Spain and Portugal and also a Douro River cruise. As part of the trip, we are getting to Barcelona 7 days before the Celebrity cruise, will be spending 10 days in Spain between cruises and 7 days in Portugal after the Douro River cruise. I am not exactly sure how many days total this will be but the land portion will be longer than the ship portion.

 

I figure that as long as I am spending the money to get to a place, I want to see more than the cruise allows me to see. We normally spend 2 or 3 days at any land trip destination. You really can not see anything on a 1 day port visit.

 

DON

[donaldsc]

Your point about the pleasure of being at sea is one reason I love to cruise. There's nothing quite like being at sea with no sight of land.

 

Different strokes for different folks but this is one thing I dislike about cruising. I hate sea days and consider them a total waste of time. That said, I know people who love them.

 

DON

[TERRIER1]

My moniker on another travel site is 7continentsdone - for good reason.

 

 

I admire you. We have been using public transportation such as trains and buses to explore inland. I have always been scared to rent a car a take off. How was your experience driving in France and in the small villages? Thanks.

[shedridt]

Your question made me LOL - & I hate those three initials! We came to this experience with my 6 years of high school & college French - 40 years ago! - & so I boned up for months with Rosetta Stone which is a terrific program. And then we got to France & I realized that on a good day I could communicate a good bit, but when it all fell apart it wasn't pretty.

 

Our first encounter with France's really wonderful motorways stands as a case in point - BEAUTIFUL roads in every sense of the word as they were not only well paved but scenic & planted with beautiful beautiful wildflowers in May. And then you get to your first toll booth & unless you've got Rick Steves himself sitting in the car with you it's a frenetic experience. You have to choose the right booth based on the symbol overhead & as I was driving I urged (!!!) my husband to consult Rick Steves. Most American credit cards - even those with chips! - will not work in the toll booths & they will also not accept cash in denominations over 20 euros. Our first encounters with these toll booths were not what you would call seamless - but by the end of our trip we were pros!

 

And if you lose your copy of Rick Steves Guide to France - just go home. He doesn't tell you everything you need to know, but he certainly tells you enough to survive in fine style.

 

If you try being a landlubber for your next trip I cannot encourage you enough to use France's excellent toll road system to get from major destination to major destination. It is expensive by American standards & tricky to maneuver the tolls at first but is well worth the price. Scenic & filled with well-behaved drivers who take keeping to the right unless you're overtaking VERY seriously. It was a pleasure to drive on those roads.

[critterchick]

MARK YOU that we are Americans & so the very idea of doing an independent tour in Europe is a little scary for us.

 

We are also Americans and have never had any fear of travelling independently in Europe - I don't know whether you or we are the typical ones.;)

 

Whenever we are flying internationally to cruise, I plan on spending at least a few days, preferably a week, on land before or after we sail. A good guidebook and some prior research are all we need, and it helps us learn more about a region than we otherwise might if we just spend a day in each port. But there's nothing like cruising to help sample a lot of new places on one trip - if only we could live to be 150 and return for a month to every place that has appealed to us!

[shedridt]

You asked specifically about driving in small villages.

 

The first thing you must absolutely do is get a car with GPS - they are invaluable - & are so calming as they tell you to 'exit the roundabout at the second exit'! We rented a type of Nissan called a Jupe - a diesel fueled car that got 42 miles to the gallon.

 

All of that said - driving in medieval villages is no treat as the roads are frighteningly narrow & parking at a premium, so we parked our car for the days we stayed in suburban villages (Villeneuve les Avignons instead of Avignon itself, for example) & took buses into the major towns. I must confess that when I pulled the car into the Hertz slot in Brussels airport without so much as a brush burn on it I kissed the steering wheel.

 

People will become annoyed with us if we get to be all landlubber instead of joy of the seas...but I hope this info helps you launch an exciting new way to see a country. I absolutely intend to vacation in France every year I possibly can for the rest of my life. C'est magnifique....

Edited June 30, 2015 by shedridt
mispoke name of car!

[shedridt]

Bonnie, you excerpted a bit from my earlier post that noted that I LONG to see Pompeii, Santorini & Rhodes. You suggested that I ask Azamara to consider a cruise including those ports.

 

WELL - it's because we booked an Azamara cruise that included all those ports (WAS I EVER EXCITED! IT WAS OUR DREAM CRUISE!) & after we booked it Azamara canceled the cruise out from under us & sold the block to a consolidator leaving us with nothing - & then my husband & I developed this landlubber tour.

 

This was our lemons to lemonade vacation. Azamara won't win us back easily as we are understandably burnt & shy. Perhaps if you suggested that cruise itinerary to Azamara yourself & urged Azamara to not cancel the cruise after people had actually booked it, we'd come flocking back. We'd love to do it as it's not a thing you can do as a landlubber! We love Azamara....

[shedridt]

Some posters have hit a rather patronizing note in urging me to expand my horizons & be a bit braver about traveling in foreign lands outside the port when docked on cruises, & so it seems like a good idea to let you know that I lived in England for four years & traveled within Europe extensively while I lived in Britain. I am comfortable with driving in a foreign country, but not so at ease with traffic signals in a foreign language.

 

Since then, my husband & I have take about 15 cruises & have been to every continent on the face of the earth. A particular memory lingers of being scrubbed down after falling in penguin poo in Antarctica...the ship did NOT want me waddling back on board with remnants of Antarctica on my behind.

 

Our special hobby is viewing total solar eclipses & in aid of that we've seen eclipses off the coast of Bulgaria, in a plowed field in Zimbabwe, in the Indian Ocean, in Egypt near the Libyan border & in Mongolia. We are booked for a particularly cushy eclipse experience in Jackson Hole in August 2017. Thank god!

 

It is important to travelers to get to know that they can do things - including renting a car & taking it out on the road when they travel in foreign places.

 

Even if you've had penguin poo on your behind from Antarctica, it's still possible to be intimidated driving into a toll booth in France, but you can get over that & enjoy a wonderful trip in a country whose language is not your own. I hope that my posts have made it a little less intimidating to do that.

[TERRIER1]

Thanks so much for the info and background. It's always the small stuff like tolls that trip me up.

[BBMacLaird]

Bonnie, you excerpted a bit from my earlier post that noted that I LONG to see Pompeii, Santorini & Rhodes. You suggested that I ask Azamara to consider a cruise including those ports.

 

WELL - it's because we booked an Azamara cruise that included all those ports (WAS I EVER EXCITED! IT WAS OUR DREAM CRUISE!) & after we booked it Azamara canceled the cruise out from under us & sold the block to a consolidator leaving us with nothing - & then my husband & I developed this landlubber tour.

 

This was our lemons to lemonade vacation. Azamara won't win us back easily as we are understandably burnt & shy. Perhaps if you suggested that cruise itinerary to Azamara yourself & urged Azamara to not cancel the cruise after people had actually booked it, we'd come flocking back. We'd love to do it as it's not a thing you can do as a landlubber! We love Azamara....

 

Pack quickly, our 05July2015 Journey voyage includes Santorini & Rhodes! So does 20Sep15 and 11Oct15. I haven't checked 2016 or 2017 yet...it's only 6am here and the tea kettle is whistling ;)

[Reggiefan]

Really good thread that raises an interesting question.

 

Cruising is much about the journey--the pleasure of being at sea--and the convenience of not repeatedly unpacking and packing, checking in and out of hotels, rushing to train stations, and hauling bags onto trains that do not stop for very long. The "convenience" part appeals more to my wife than it does to me, but I recognize its value nonetheless. And there are some itineraries where cruising is simply the most practical way to go because of the distances involved.

 

However, even for a destination-focused line like Azamara, it is hard for the destination to outweigh the journey on most cruises.

 

And if we are talking about a cruise line like Azamara, cruising is more expensive. On Azamara, the fare for two with a veranda stateroom runs roughly $750-850 per night--and this would be under the new sale Azamara started running today of booking a veranda stateroom for the price of an interior stateroom. And then we have the additional charges for tours and other expenses associated with travel, and the tour expenses for those cruising can be considerable.

 

On a land trip, the expenses for two might run $500--in London and Paris, perhaps more, but in most other places in Europe, less. Because of travel and other expenses, the cost per day might run $600-650. But it seems per day that a land trip might be $200-250 cheaper than a cruise. Multiply that number by 10, and we are talking a significant difference. And a land trip allows much greater time on land to enjoy a foreign land.

 

I thoroughly enjoy both types of travel, and each has its merits. But to some extent, we are talking apples and oranges.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Reggiefan

[critterchick]

Some posters have hit a rather patronizing note in urging me to expand my horizons & be a bit braver about traveling in foreign lands outside the port when docked on cruises, & so it seems like a good idea to let you know that I lived in England for four years & traveled within Europe extensively while I lived in Britain. I am comfortable with driving in a foreign country, but not so at ease with traffic signals in a foreign language.

 

Since then, my husband & I have take about 15 cruises & have been to every continent on the face of the earth. A particular memory lingers of being scrubbed down after falling in penguin poo in Antarctica...the ship did NOT want me waddling back on board with remnants of Antarctica on my behind.

 

Our special hobby is viewing total solar eclipses & in aid of that we've seen eclipses off the coast of Bulgaria, in a plowed field in Zimbabwe, in the Indian Ocean, in Egypt near the Libyan border & in Mongolia. We are booked for a particularly cushy eclipse experience in Jackson Hole in August 2017. Thank god!

 

It is important to travelers to get to know that they can do things - including renting a car & taking it out on the road when they travel in foreign places.

 

Even if you've had penguin poo on your behind from Antarctica, it's still possible to be intimidated driving into a toll booth in France, but you can get over that & enjoy a wonderful trip in a country whose language is not your own. I hope that my posts have made it a little less intimidating to do that.

 

I don't see where anybody was patronizing - what bumped me (and perhaps another poster) was the comment, "MARK YOU that we are Americans & so the very idea of doing an independent tour in Europe is a little scary for us." I think you will find people who are scared and people who are unafraid in every country, not just the US.

 

DH was very apprehensive about driving in Italy; Maria Andretti here couldn't wait to do it. It was actually a bit of a letdown (for me) - the drivers are far more skilled than the lunatics that drive the Beltway around our nation's capital. And now that we've done it once, the next time will be easier.:D

[shedridt]

Bonnie, the key thing about the trip that Azamara canceled two years ago was that it hit ALL the points I wanted - Pompeii, Santorini, & Rhodes. There are cruises out there that do all three & I'll be waiting to pounce on them.

 

As to Americans being abnormally reticent about driving in Europe...let's not get too silly about this as of course anyone is reticent about taking on something completely new. The British look at going to the Dordogne the way we in Delaware look at going to Ocean City New Jersey (I exaggerate only slightly, for effect, as surely many British people stick to English beaches rather than venturing abroad to France). We met British people on several occasions who said that they'd been reserving summer places in France for years & years & they variably took a train to get to those houses or took a ferry & then drove or did whatever it took to get to their summer place but it was well trodden turf. The difference between those Brits who have been doing this for ages & we Americans is obvious - the Dordogne is their New Jersey & they've been doing it forever & for US - it's very very different. Don't be silly enough to pretend that it's not more than a bit of an adventure & a little scary for us to take a vacation 3000 miles from our homes. It's akin to an English traveler deciding to fly from their home in Liverpool to America & then drive from JFK Airport to Ocean City NJ...

Edited July 4, 2015 by shedridt
grammar

[donaldsc]

 

DH was very apprehensive about driving in Italy; Maria Andretti here couldn't wait to do it. It was actually a bit of a letdown (for me) - the drivers are far more skilled than the lunatics that drive the Beltway around our nation's capital. And now that we've done it once, the next time will be easier.:D

 

I was once on a 2 lane winding mountain road in Switzerland - no visibility. I was in the right lane and as one person decided to pass me (remember - no visibility), a 3d person decided to pass the person who was passing me.

 

It was a hoot but nobody got hit.

 

About the only driving that I do not think that I would do is to drive in London. I can handle other side driving. I can handle big cities. I can even handle big cities with no apparent traffic patterns as long as I have a GPS. But all 3 - no way.

 

DON

[cruisr]

I have been on over 100 cruises and except for the Tip of South America and Antarctica I have been to many many places, I now have 107 countries, which I know is not much, but it covers a lot of ground, I am sort of off cruises now as I have discovered the joys of staying somewhere more then 8 hours or an overnight. I also discovered the joys of the rest of the world that is not on an ocean! gee, there is a lot to see inland. I am currently almost done three weeks In Europe where my shortest stay was three nights. Still, way longer then any cruise.

 

Im glad for my cruises but after 3-4 a year I am over it. One a year is fine for me and that's a stretch to find places I have not been.

[critterchick]

Bonnie, the key thing about the trip that Azamara canceled two years ago was that it hit ALL the points I wanted - Pompeii, Santorini, & Rhodes. There are cruises out there that do all three & I'll be waiting to pounce on them.

 

As to Americans being abnormally reticent about driving in Europe...let's not get too silly about this as of course anyone is reticent about taking on something completely new. The British look at going to the Dordogne the way we in Delaware look at going to Ocean City New Jersey (I exaggerate only slightly, for effect, as surely many British people stick to English beaches rather than venturing abroad to France). We met British people on several occasions who said that they'd been reserving summer places in France for years & years & they variably took a train to get to those houses or took a ferry & then drove or did whatever it took to get to their summer place but it was well trodden turf. The difference between those Brits who have been doing this for ages & we Americans is obvious - the Dordogne is their New Jersey & they've been doing it forever & for US - it's very very different. Don't be silly enough to pretend that it's not more than a bit of an adventure & a little scary for us to take a vacation 3000 miles from our homes. It's akin to an English traveler deciding to fly from their home in Liverpool to America & then drive from JFK Airport to Ocean City NJ...

 

Well, now that you've called me silly twice in one paragraph, I feel compelled to respond again (dog with a bone, can't let it go). Yes, it's an adventure. No, it's not scary (for me, anyway) to go 3000 miles from home unless it's to someplace known to be dangerous. I don't think that either of us unusual in our perspectives, but demeaning each other isn't constructive.

I was once on a 2 lane winding mountain road in Switzerland - no visibility. I was in the right lane and as one person decided to pass me (remember - no visibility), a 3d person decided to pass the person who was passing me.

 

It was a hoot but nobody got hit.

 

About the only driving that I do not think that I would do is to drive in London. I can handle other side driving. I can handle big cities. I can even handle big cities with no apparent traffic patterns as long as I have a GPS. But all 3 - no way.

 

DON

 

I don't think "hoot" quite describes how I would be feeling about that.;) And thankfully, London has such a great Tube that you don't have to worry about driving there!:D