Why are you happy to pay gratuities?

[AZ Ocean Lover]

Just throwing this out to see how people would react to it. Many people have mentioned rolling it into the cost of the cruise. My concern with that is that the tips wouldn't roll down to the employee level. Not that I don't trust big corporations;). How about if it was pulled out, called a Service Charge and listed just like port charges and taxes are listed and therefore not removeable.

 

I realize that there is no savings for those that don't agree with paying gratuities but it would at least put the funds in a different category and not such a volatile topic.

[wallie5446]

We agreed to it. Prepaid or otherwise. We are not ignorant of the arrangement.

We answer to a higher law than poorly understood and wrongly interpreted "case law".

 

The cruise staff work hard and we are appreciative of good work ethic and kindness.

 

What about you?

 

Case Law, higher power, yada yada, yada.

 

Because we have sailed on a line where "no tipping" was suggested.

And the service was totally lacking, yet the cost for the cruise was higher.

[Karynanne]

I'm not happy with the pre-paid gratuities and I'm glad we can remove them at our discretion. On my last cruise (Not celebrity) the staff on board did not go above and beyond to make my cruise memorable. Quite the opposite. Mind you I was comparing it to the early 1990's RC cruise where tipping was still done with cash but back then, the service was astounding and we still remember the crew that long ago. This last cruise I was ignored, left in a restaurant at a table with the wrong drink and they never came back, my room steward said maybe 10 words to me total in 9 days, and since I was a single cruiser at that time, I was stared at by the staff in the dining areas as well as the bar/lounges. Made me feel really out of place. I was ignored in the Jewelry section of the on board store. Weird experience overall and yes, I removed the tips on that cruise. These were things I could not fix by telling the staff. It was up to them to act appropriately but they did not.

 

I concluded that since the tips were already paid and not a factor, they did not have to go above and beyond but simply do the minimum it took to get the job done. There is no incentive to do better in other words. Kind of a shame since the staff is part of the cruise experience.

 

I'm trying Celebrity next and from what I can tell, I hear it is better but I will reserve my opinions until the last few days of the cruise. and yes, I will pay the gratuity if the service is outstanding. That last cruise made me wary

about pre-paying, so in conclusion, I like the fact we can pay or not up front

as an option but I don't like it because it has made the staff lazy on certain ships and I just have to find the ship where that has not happened yet! :D

 

Hopefully your experience with Celebrity will give you a good impression. We've been cruising with Celebrity since 1999, and have always been pleased with the level of service.

[wallie5446]

Just throwing this out to see how people would react to it. Many people have mentioned rolling it into the cost of the cruise. My concern with that is that the tips wouldn't roll down to the employee level. Not that I don't trust big corporations;). How about if it was pulled out, called a Service Charge and listed just like port charges and taxes are listed and therefore not removeable.

 

I realize that there is no savings for those that don't agree with paying gratuities but it would at least put the funds in a different category and not such a volatile topic.

 

Why hustle to serve 10-15-20 people, when you know your going to get paid the same to serve 5?

[gentle@spici]

Bosco I promise you that if you were to open your restaurant in one of these countries you would have hundreds of people applying for a job at $5.50 an hr. This is the problem I have. Everyone wants to compare our way of life with how people in other countries live. I am sure compared to what they could make in their home country, they are more than happy to work on the cruise ships making what they do. I like to sit in the bars and have cocktails while the wife gambles on our cruises so I talk to the bartenders and waitresses quite often when noones around. So I am confident in saying what I believe.

And another thing that bothers me is how everyone thinks they work such long hrs and so many days in a row like no one in the good ole USA would ever do that. Guess what, my dad worked my whole young life at GM 12 hr days pretty much 7 days a week so my mom didn't have to work and he could build a new house for our family. He didn't see most of my sports in school and a lot of other stuff for many yrs. I didn't get to really know my dad until I was in my 30s because of it. We lived week to week for many years but always had a beautiful house and food on the table. I'm sure he was very proud of what he did for all of us. But I guarantee you he didn't go to work loving his job every day. I am sure there's plenty of people working multiple jobs 7 days a week to make ends meet like he chose to do.

The point is we have to stop thinking their lifestyle should be up to our standards. Heck we can't even compare state to state here. We make under $8 bucks an hr here in Michigan for minimum wage but in North Dakota it's closer to $14. I seriously doubt I could live in North Dakota on $8 wages. On the other hand I doubt anyone there feels sorry for us either making that kind of money lol.

With that said I bring along extra tip money and I tip when I get good service which is almost all of the time on the cruise lines. I will not tip because I'm supposed to supplement their income . I understand that's what the mandatory tips do in a roundabout way. Sorry for the ramble, too much coffee today.

[wallie5446]

I'm not happy with the pre-paid gratuities and I'm glad we can remove them at our discretion. On my last cruise (Not celebrity) the staff on board did not go above and beyond to make my cruise memorable. Quite the opposite. Mind you I was comparing it to the early 1990's RC cruise where tipping was still done with cash but back then, the service was astounding and we still remember the crew that long ago. This last cruise I was ignored, left in a restaurant at a table with the wrong drink and they never came back, my room steward said maybe 10 words to me total in 9 days, and since I was a single cruiser at that time, I was stared at by the staff in the dining areas as well as the bar/lounges. Made me feel really out of place. I was ignored in the Jewelry section of the on board store. Weird experience overall and yes, I removed the tips on that cruise. These were things I could not fix by telling the staff. It was up to them to act appropriately but they did not.

 

I concluded that since the tips were already paid and not a factor, they did not have to go above and beyond but simply do the minimum it took to get the job done. There is no incentive to do better in other words. Kind of a shame since the staff is part of the cruise experience.

 

I'm trying Celebrity next and from what I can tell, I hear it is better but I will reserve my opinions until the last few days of the cruise. and yes, I will pay the gratuity if the service is outstanding. That last cruise made me wary

about pre-paying, so in conclusion, I like the fact we can pay or not up front

as an option but I don't like it because it has made the staff lazy on certain ships and I just have to find the ship where that has not happened yet! :D

 

And now you know why we will not return to NCL, one and done.

[wallie5446]

Add the gratuities to the cruise price along with the taxes and port fees and be done with it.

 

Because we the cruising public will not bellie up and pay the price it cost to go on one of those cruises.

[Fish Lover]

This is the second long thread on tipping which I have read. I have strong feelings, as most people do, on the subject.

 

I am glad to read that most people do not object to tipping the staff. They depend upon tips for their earnings, just as waiters and waitresses do in the US.

 

My real objection is to people who cruise and do not pay tips, at all. In fact they have it down to a science as to how to avoid it. They sign up for regular meal sittings, then change when they come on board. Or, they disappear to the buffet on the last night. They disembark very early and avoid their steward.

 

Really, gratuities (however they are paid, and in amounts commensurate with service) are part of the cost of going on a cruise. If you can't afford to pay reasonable gratuities for excellent service, then you can not afford to go.

 

Same as going to a restaurant. You need to budget for gratuities and then pay them based on the service provided.

 

On of the biggest lessons my daughter ever learned was when she first started traveling with her volleyball Jr Olympic team and they went out for meals. She learned the need to budget for the tip and not stiff the waiter. I'm not sure she fully understood it though, until she took a summer waitressing job!

[ECCruise]

I think there needs to be a little bit of education here.

Keep seeing "salary" and "income" equated as equal. For service staff on the vast majority of cruise lines (and absolutely on Celebrity) they couldn't be more different.

 

The salary of gratuity based staff on Celebrity is $50 per month, unless it has changed radically in the last few months. If all of their cabins (as a steward) and all of their tables (as a server) stiffed them on their gratuities (oops, I mean MODIFIED their gratuities because service wasn't "stellar"), the employee would take home $50 for approximately 275-300 hours of work (10 hrs x 30 days a month). Obviously, this never happens but every time you remove a gratuity, or lessen it, you are severely impacting the employee's income.

 

Should it be included in the cruise fare? I think yes. But it isn't. The gratuity structure as it exists is for the most basic of service. I know that this is NOT the way it is in the UK, or Oz, or in many other countries, but this is the way it is on US cruise ships. For "stellar" service, or something "above and beyond" then I think there should be additional gratuities given to that person or persons. This notion that unless the employee absolutely blows you away in service they do not deserve even the base gratuities is either extremely cheap or extremely misinformed.

[gergles]

Gotta run, need to start booking our Specialty dinners;)

Make sure you give them an extra tip even though it's included in the price!

[wallie5446]

Make sure you give them an extra tip even though it's included in the price!

 

Always!;)

[deerhuntingal]

I think the biggest thing for me in not knowing if that $$ actually goes to the employee's.... You can read it and hear it from those that are supposedly in the know about it but do we ever really know? Tipping was designed to reward someone for doing a good job. It was the consumer handing money to this person and really making their day. You take away that one on one feeling by paying a lump sum to the cruise line. Yes, you can get that feeling by tipping extra in person to someone but you would feel more inclined to give more that way if you had not already forked over the $180 to the cruise line.

Yes, they say it goes to all the behind the scene folks as well but those positions you would not tip normally in the real world. Laundry attendants, dish washers, etc. and yes, they work long hours but they get to see exotic places, meet all kinds of people, get their rent free and food provided to them and have benefits unlike any they would have ever had back home. They would not do it if they did not want to.

I hate the wage argument to justify tipping. That is not why it was created. It was created to reward those who go out of their way to do a good job for you. Period. It encourages exemplary behavior and in turn makes the consumer want to return and enjoy that experience again. If these tips are paid up front, what incentive is there? There isn't any. The fear of losing their job then becomes the only incentive to do well and that works in a lot of the cases but not all. I tip, and sometimes handsomely but it is my choice so I hope it always remains optional. Those that believe tipping up front is mandatory on a cruise can believe that if they want to but I would never tip a cabbie before I reached my destination or tip an excursion operator before a trip on his boat. At the end of a job well done it when you tip but I imagine a lot don't see it that way on a cruise. Kind of a shame as the service and attitudes drop without the incentive there.

Edited July 14, 2015 by deerhuntingal

[wallie5446]

I think the biggest thing for me in not knowing if that $$ actually goes to the employee's.... You can read it and hear it from those that are supposedly in the know about it but do we ever really know? Tipping was designed to reward someone for doing a good job. It was the consumer handing money to this person and really making their day. You take away that one on one feeling by paying a lump sum to the cruise line. Yes, you can get that feeling by tipping extra in person to someone but you would feel more inclined to give more that way if you had not already forked over the $180 to the cruise line.

Yes, they say it goes to all the behind the scene folks as well but those positions you would not tip normally in the real world. Laundry attendants, dish washers, etc. and yes, they work long hours but they get to see exotic places, meet all kinds of people, get their rent free and food provided to them and have benefits unlike any they would have ever had back home. They would not do it if they did not want to.

I hate the wage argument to justify tipping. That is not why it was created. It was created to reward those who go out of their way to do a good job for you. Period. It encourages exemplary behavior and in turn makes the consumer want to return and enjoy that experience again. If these tips are paid up front, what incentive is there? There isn't any. The fear of losing their job then becomes the only incentive to do well and that works in a lot of the cases but not all. I tip, and sometimes handsomely but it is my choice so I hope it always remains optional.

 

In 25+ years never have I heard that the $12.00 a day grat goes to a dishwasher or laundry person. It goes to our cabin steward and asst, and waiter and asst. 4 people.

Period.

No bar or drink servers get a cut either.

Edited July 14, 2015 by wallie5446

[blueboro]

I always have Select Dining so pre-pay tips and 99% of the time leave additional cash for the steward and waiter if we have them on more than one evening. However, I do NOT think they are underpaid. If so they would have trouble filling those positions and it seems people from these other countries line up to get hired.

[ST1TCH]

.....

 

I don't know who if any get this money as big corps are widely known not to do the right thing with it and I do know who gets the money I hand to them. That is the way it should be but I'm old fashioned!:eek:

 

FWIW, I was impressed with how DCL handles this. They have you either prepay or add it on to your room charges like Celebrity, but on the next to last night, they deliver envelopes and a sheet of your prepaid gratuity tickets on it so you can make sure that you give that gratuity ticket in an envelope to that person (waiter, asst waiter, stewart, asst steward, etc) and add more $$ if you so desire.

 

-----------------------------------

 

Also, FWIW, I wonder how many that are stingy with tips ever worked a job that relied on tips (waiter, pizza delivery, etc)?

[boscobeans]

Bosco I promise you that if you were to open your restaurant in one of these countries you would have hundreds of people applying for a job at $5.50 an hr. This is the problem I have. Everyone wants to compare our way of life with how people in other countries live. I am sure compared to what they could make in their home country, they are more than happy to work on the cruise ships making what they do.................................................................................................................

With that said I bring along extra tip money and I tip when I get good service which is almost all of the time on the cruise lines. I will not tip because I'm supposed to supplement their income . I understand that's what the mandatory tips do in a roundabout way. Sorry for the ramble, too much coffee today.

 

Granted, trying to make comparisons really makes no sense. A five dollar bill won't get you a side of fries in many restaurants around here. With that same five spot a waiter, from let's say Indonesia, takes his wife out for dinner when he is home between contracts chances are they will have nice evening. For the $ 2,000 a month you might pay for a studio in Manhattan you could be staying at a villa in many parts of the world.

 

Carlos was one of the best waiters we've had on any of our 17 cruises. He was with Celebrity for years and always "exceded all our expectation" as Celebrity claimed. I would see him in the buffet around 6 in the morning rolling silverware in napkins. He worked the breakfast shift in the buffet, the lunch and the dinner seatings in the MDR as well as setting up the midnight buffet, when they had them. He was from Panama told and us his earnings from salary plus tips allowed him and his family to lead a very comfortable life, but if all he received was the Celebrity pay he would be hauling bananas or the like.

 

 

As to *"I will not tip because I'm supposed to supplement their income . I understand that's what the mandatory tips do in a roundabout way."*

 

I don't think you can or should consider tips as a supplement but more as part of income. When we go out to dinner I don't think my tip is really extra. To me it is just part of the current payment system in this area. In other places tipping is not part of the payment system but is actually included in the price and then paid out as higher hourly wage to your server. Six of one vs. a half dozen of the other.

 

In any case they work very hard and except for a very small percentage earn every bit of the income they get. We didn't provide extra on two occasions, both on Royal Caribbean. On one cruise our room steward did the minimum thus getting only the standard tip. The next cruise had bare minimum service from the inexperienced waiter and his 17 year veteran assistant. The only staff, aside from bartenders and drink servers, to earn an extra tip was our excellent MDR bartender.

 

bosco

[keithm]

Yep. That too! We are paying the tips or with an all-inclusive will be paying a price increase. I'm accustomed to it anyway' date=' it's a big part of the restaurant culture in the Philadelphia area, Philly folks are well known as generous tippers.[/quote']

Not us folks here in NH. I'm a generous tipper, but our state is the stingest in the country.

[keithm]

I'm not happy with the pre-paid gratuities and I'm glad we can remove them at our discretion. On my last cruise (Not celebrity) the staff on board did not go above and beyond to make my cruise memorable. Quite the opposite. Mind you I was comparing it to the early 1990's RC cruise where tipping was still done with cash but back then, the service was astounding and we still remember the crew that long ago. This last cruise I was ignored, left in a restaurant at a table with the wrong drink and they never came back, my room steward said maybe 10 words to me total in 9 days, and since I was a single cruiser at that time, I was stared at by the staff in the dining areas as well as the bar/lounges. Made me feel really out of place. I was ignored in the Jewelry section of the on board store. Weird experience overall and yes, I removed the tips on that cruise. These were things I could not fix by telling the staff. It was up to them to act appropriately but they did not.

 

I concluded that since the tips were already paid and not a factor, they did not have to go above and beyond but simply do the minimum it took to get the job done. There is no incentive to do better in other words. Kind of a shame since the staff is part of the cruise experience.

 

I'm trying Celebrity next and from what I can tell, I hear it is better but I will reserve my opinions until the last few days of the cruise. and yes, I will pay the gratuity if the service is outstanding. That last cruise made me wary

about pre-paying, so in conclusion, I like the fact we can pay or not up front

as an option but I don't like it because it has made the staff lazy on certain ships and I just have to find the ship where that has not happened yet! :D

I've cruised 9 cruises between Cunard & Celebrity & not once have I found the staff less than willing to make sure my trip was exceptional. I've seen plenty of pax who were complaining about the absolute most trivial things..such as waiting more than 1 minute to get a gluton free roll & bitching that this is "intolerable" to anyone who could her. Being behind her the entire time, I just told her to shut the hell up! To say she was aghast is an understatement. Yes, it was very strong,but you know, some people need a real reality slap & told the world does NOT revolve around them. Those who remove autotips(especially to put it back in their pocket)as far as I'm concerned, have a really warm room waiting for them in the afterlife.

[keithm]

Some people do tip the restaurant manager - at the beginning of the cruise to ensure they get what they want (eg a window table for two every night at 7.30pm).

 

Personally I consider that a bribe rather than a tip...

We tend to book cruises rather late. As such,we don't normally get the seating time we like(first seating)We then pay a visit to the Maitre D & request a table for 2. I also politely request a window table, if at all possible He gets a tip, if we get the table for 2 on first seating. The tip is doubled if it's a window seat. A bribe to you,perhaps. Customer service, above & beyond for us. Being in the hospitality industry, we "take" care of own "own" when on holiday, thank you very much!

[Velvetwater]

I do NOT think they are underpaid. If so they would have trouble filling those positions and it seems people from these other countries line up to get hired.

 

I dont think its OK to condone exploiting people from poorer countries where the standard of living/wage/economy is so bad a cruise ship job is their best choice.

 

The choice between spending hours and hours crops in baking hot sun (as an example) for pittance in your home country vs being miles from home working on a cruise ship for a better wage is hardly a great choice for people to make.

 

I appreciate the industry giving jobs to less fortunate but they really could pay them more in my opinion and not have to expect us to make up a large portion of their wages. This whole issue is my main gripe with cruising and has almost stopped me booking.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Velvetwater

[AtleeH]

I can't speak for Celebrity, but here is the breakdown of the $12 grautuity on a Carnival ship. Dining Room Service = $6.10. Stateroom Service = $3.90. Alternative Services distributed to kitchen, entertainment, guest services, & other hotel staff members = $2.00.

 

Actually, I think he is 100% correct. They go to the dining room wait staff and the cabin stewards. No one else. Those behind the scenes people are paid at a different rate and tips are not a factor.

 

As for the poster who assumes they are well paid because otherwise the jobs would be hard to fill....that's utter nonsense. These people are from countries where jobs are in short supply, pay is vey low and therefore they will take any job at little pay for a lot of work. I'd like to see any American do what these people do, for as little as they do it for, and with a smile on their face. Not a chance.

[cgags47]

Tip if you want to, don't tip if you don't want to. Simple as that.

 

On a side note: This entire discussion is basically the opening scene for Reservoir Dogs...

[outoftowner]

My original intention was to give others an opportunity to say why they are happy to pay the gratuities.

I was reacting to another old recently resurrected thread that really ticked me off. Rather than respond to that ridiculousness I thought about why I am happy to pay it and thought others might also want to express their reasons to do so.

It was meant to be positive.

Fortunately some have done so and I thank you.

Unfortunately some have taken a less than positive tone.

Kinda sorry I brought it up now.

Hope all those with booked cruises have a lovely time.

[Andy]

Hi Everyone,

 

As several argumentative posts required deletion, this thread is now closed. Thanks for your understanding and participation.