Gratutities

[cle-guy]

Why is it the passengers responsibility to pay the Cruise lines staff.

We pay that in our fares and we should only be obliged to tip for great

service.

 

Um, maybe you don't understand how business works?

 

Let me explain, companies charge people money for various things, in the case of a crusie, line they charge us a cabin fare, they bill us gratuities, they bill us for port fees and taxes.

 

A business then distributes these various income streams to various parties who in turn provide goods and services, so the business can deliver its own goods and services. In the case of a crusie line, they buy food, they pay for fuel, they buy cleaning products and paint to keep the ship going. They take some of the fares collected and that pays standard cruise wages to the staff, and some benefits and the cost of moving staff around. the earmarked gratuities go directly to offset staff costs but paying directly to the staff. The taxes and point fees collected are earmarked and go directly to various government authorities.

 

After all of this is done, the company then determines if they have an excess of income or not. Hopefully they do, and that is called making a profit.

 

So the truth of the matter is is that we passengers are not ONLY responsible for paying the staff wages, we also pay to get Sysco to deliver food to the ship, we pay British Petroleum for fuel, we pay Sherwin Williams for the buckets of paint, we pay EcoLab for cleaning products, it's just that we entrust the cruise line to gather the funds and disseminate them to the relevant parties on our behalf, en-masse. It makes the process a lot simpler.

 

IN our case, RCL and its brands have proven to be quite good at achieving a profit which in turn fills its investors retirement portfolios, that allow retirees to board Cruise ships, and start the process all over again.

[RocketMan275]

Some of you seem to have missed , or chosen to ignore a few of the main points I made in my previous post. My view is that the auto tipping policy needs to be eliminated, and the cruise lines who have chosen to adopt this policy need to assume appropriate financial responsibility for the wages of their employees. It is a matter of economic and social justice to pay employees a living wage.

 

Listing a number of cruise lines that also use the auto tipping scheme does not justify the practice. You should be aware that many of the listed lines are owned by a few large corporations. .Also as some have argued, it is not a matter of conforming to local customs or mores. The ships sail the oceans of the world and have an international clientel. When we see a practice that we may regard as unfair don't we have a moral responsibility to speak up and request that corporations become better corporate citizens?

 

There is no fair system for determining a 'living wage'. The cruise lines employees are from a wide cross section of nations, each with a different 'living wage'. Surely, you're not proposing that crew should be paid based upon where they are from?

[SantaFeFan]

So does this make prepaid gratuities wrong then?

 

They get their "prepaid" gratuities AFTER the cruise is over.

[Fish Lover]

The whole issue of gratuities is a hot topic. Many arguments on many threads.

 

Cruise lines are in the hospitality business. As such, they have adopted the gratuity system mush the same as the restaurant business in the US. It used to be all at will, and no one stiffed the providers.

 

However, with the advent of free dining and more people cruising, some attempt had to be made to sustain the system. Therefore pre-paid gratuities were implemented. This allows for more flexibility for those passengers that want it, and it somewhat stems the flow of people who don't pay.

 

The cruise line could make all passengers pre-pay gratuities. Then if service is poor, they would have to complain to recoup the tips back. But then you dull the incentive for extraordinary service.

 

Personally I prefer pre-paying. I would NEVER dispute the payment. If ever there were a problem, I would complain appropriately and that is ordinarily sufficient.

 

Service on cruises is for the most part is exemplary. If you can not afford the additional customary gratuity, then you can not afford to cruise.

[icat2000]

To my knowledge, the only brands that call in Australia with all-in pricing is P&O, Azamara on occasion, and perhaps a couple of the small ship, ultra luxury brands. I very tiny, almost insignificant number of people.

 

When booking a cruise they tell you most reputable TA's make note of it, in the crusie contract its stated, in the FAQ its called out.

 

The fact that there is only a very, very tiny number of ships that its included, and every ship that sails out of Oz/NZ but for P&O has a tipping requirement should make it even more obvious. And the fact that 60% of cruisers are repeaters means that roughly 60% of those boarding ships down under know of the policy just by having cruised before.

 

One will not see what one does not want to see.

Princess has the grats built into the fare for Diamond, Sun, Sea, Emerald and Golden when they will be based here. Also Carnival does too for the Spirit and the Legend.

[cle-guy]

Princess has the grats built into the fare for Diamond, Sun, Sea, Emerald and Golden when they will be based here. Also Carnival does too for the Spirit and the Legend.

 

OK, likely this varies based on booking location then.

 

I just went and did a Sea dummy booking for Feb 26, 2016 Brisbane to Sydney, and it says gratuities will be extra when i click the "What's included in my Cruise Fare" link on the booking.

 

I'm booking from the USA, and know that Celebrity offers different fares, rules and perks based on location, so makes sense that Princess would do the same.

Edited August 3, 2015 by cle-guy

[Pavovsky]

I will prepay also. Seems easier and as we will be dining in Blu at flexible times we may well have different wait staff.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[icat2000]

OK, likely this varies based on booking location then.

 

I just went and did a Sea dummy booking for Feb 26, 2016 Brisbane to Sydney, and it says gratuities will be extra when i click the "What's included in my Cruise Fare" link on the booking.

 

I'm booking from the USA, and know that Celebrity offers different fares, rules and perks based on location, so makes sense that Princess would do the same.

I believe it only applies to booking made in Australia and NZ who have the grats built into the fare. All our fares also show taxes and ports fees in the price as well.

[cle-guy]

I believe it only applies to booking made in Australia and NZ who have the grats built into the fare. All our fares also show taxes and ports fees in the price as well.

 

ours presents the taxes and fees as separate line item.

 

It's definitely then determined by booking location.

[rahrah50]

I like prepaid gratuities. Something else I don't have to worry about while on vacation. I feel there are a lot of people who make my cruise wonderful that I never see. My Silhouette cruise in May was prepaid and I gave a little extra to our room steward, waiter (we were Select but ate at the same table with the same waiter), and drink server. I felt they all were wonderful to our group of widows and also protected us from a gentleman who was very unkind to us seated at the next table. When I travel on a land vacation I check out the tipping customs for the country I am visiting and abide by those customs.

[grandgeezer]

The whole issue of gratuities is a hot topic. Many arguments on many threads.

 

Cruise lines are in the hospitality business. As such, they have adopted the gratuity system mush the same as the restaurant business in the US. It used to be all at will, and no one stiffed the providers.

 

However, with the advent of free dining and more people cruising, some attempt had to be made to sustain the system. Therefore pre-paid gratuities were implemented. This allows for more flexibility for those passengers that want it, and it somewhat stems the flow of people who don't pay.

 

The cruise line could make all passengers pre-pay gratuities. Then if service is poor, they would have to complain to recoup the tips back. But then you dull the incentive for extraordinary service.

 

Personally I prefer pre-paying. I would NEVER dispute the payment. If ever there were a problem, I would complain appropriately and that is ordinarily sufficient.

 

Service on cruises is for the most part is exemplary. If you can not afford the additional customary gratuity, then you can not afford to cruise.

 

That last statement is offensive at the very least. How do you know everybody's financial situation? What about the statement that anybody that can't afford a suite, can't afford to cruise. Same thing, just as insensitive and unknowing.

[Gone Fishing]

We are well over 100 posts on a tipping thread and no one has brought up giving gifts instead of tips.

 

What about a pair of jeans or perhaps a high quality table lamp? :)

[Fish Lover]

That last statement is offensive at the very least. How do you know everybody's financial situation? What about the statement that anybody that can't afford a suite, can't afford to cruise. Same thing, just as insensitive and unknowing.

 

I absolutely stand by my statement. When you decide to cruise you determine what level cabin you may want based on what you can afford. Part of determining what you can afford includes gratuities.

 

I can not afford to stay in a suite, so I don't book a suite.

 

I have seen people go on cruises and ignore paying gratuities, including eating at the buffet on the last day so that they avoid cash tipping. Again, if you can not afford to include the minimum gratuities in the cost of the cruise, then you should not cruise but choose another vacation alternative. Gratuities should not be optional.

[rose6]

Hi Rocket Man

It would seem far more reasonable to me to determine wages based on the the country where the cruise line is listed on the stock exchange, rather than the countries of origin of the employees.

[cle-guy]

Hi Rocket Man

It would seem far more reasonable to me to determine wages based on the the country where the cruise line is listed on the stock exchange, rather than the countries of origin of the employees.

 

What about companies that trade on multiple exchanges in multiple countries? Or privately held cruise operations that don't trade, but have investors in multiple countries thus ownership in multiple countries?

 

I assume you are attempting to USA, well servers her wages are very low, and enhanced by a standard 18% to 20% gratuity, so I guess we are already there. Some hotels pay housekeepers "per room" and allow them to gather tips from their guests.

 

We have to acknowledge cruise lines are not normal businesses. When I interned at Walt Disney World, I got paid minimum wage, stayed in their housing, and had to pay $300 a month for my apartment shared with 5 others. I had to pay myself to get myself to Orlando and home after. Crusie employees, get free room and board, and transit to and from the ship at turn around, those benefits are valuable, but not levied.

Edited August 3, 2015 by cle-guy

[karena1]

I have NEVER seen anybody leave a tip in the WINDJAMMER, have you???

george35

 

Many times my hubby will throw a buck or two on the table in the morning in WJ after we finish breakfast

 

And we go to Punta Cana every year to an all inclusive and we always leave a tip in the buffets after we eat breakfast or dinner and we also tip the bartenders when we get drinks. We take a boatload of $1's with us just for that purpose. We leave our maid a tip every morning and then a bigger tip at the end of the week also.

 

So yes, people do tip in buffets.

[cle-guy]

That last statement is offensive at the very least. How do you know everybody's financial situation? What about the statement that anybody that can't afford a suite, can't afford to cruise. Same thing, just as insensitive and unknowing.

 

These are NOWHERE NEAR the same thing. As the suite travelers also need to plan to pay for the extras (well expected) charges like gratuities.

 

A more appropriate analogy is if you can't afford to buy car insurance, license and registration fees, gas, maintenance and upkeep, and fuel you shouldn't buy a car.

[PTMary]

Service on cruises is for the most part is exemplary. If you can not afford the additional customary gratuity, then you can not afford to cruise.

 

That last statement is offensive at the very least. How do you know everybody's financial situation? What about the statement that anybody that can't afford a suite, can't afford to cruise. Same thing, just as insensitive and unknowing.

 

Why is that offensive? It is the simple truth, and truth is not offensive (at least to reasonable people, that is). If you can't afford to meet all of your obligations while cruising, then you can't afford to be on that cruise. Simple as that.

 

Your example of affording a suite is foolish. Choosing a suite is a choice of a higher level of luxury, a choice made from several different stateroom categories based on what a person is willing to pay for. Gratuities are not a luxury, but an obligation to the staff who serve you every day on your cruise. Your position is just as ridiculous as your boss telling you that he doesn't want to pay you this week for the work you have done, and if you have an objection to that, he would consider it "offensive".

 

You are the one being "insensitive and unknowing". Unbelievable the lengths some people will go to rationalize their shortcomings. :rolleyes:

Edited August 3, 2015 by PTMary

[Fish Lover]

Hi Rocket Man

It would seem far more reasonable to me to determine wages based on the the country where the cruise line is listed on the stock exchange, rather than the countries of origin of the employees.

 

why?

 

Celebrity ships are registered in Malta and Ecuador. "90% of ships that call on US ports are registered in other countries. There are many factors that determine where a cruise ship—or for that matter, any maritime vessel—is flagged. Those determinations are made by individual cruise lines and other ship operators based on varying factors including the capabilities of the flag to deliver the services needed; representation and reputation of the flag in the international shipping community; the performance of the flag state, which dictates how a ship is prioritized by port states; the pool of seafarers able to meet the needs of the flag; and the flag's fees/charges and taxes, according to the Cruise Lines International Association. Only one ship, NCL, Pride of America is registered in the US." Yet, many of the large cruise lines cater to predominantly US passengers.

[laslomas]

It should not be called a Gratuity (defined as a voluntary payment to show appreciation for exceptional service) but rather a Service Charge (an additional mandatory payment). Then everyone would have to pay, the cruise lines would know exactly how much they would recoup, and they would be able to pay decent wages to all their staff in the service sector. All the griping over 'stiffing the staff' and whether Brits and Aussies don't understand the culture could be a thing of the past. Calm..:)

[cle-guy]

It should not be called a Gratuity (defined as a voluntary payment to show appreciation for exceptional service) but rather a Service Charge (an additional mandatory payment). Then everyone would have to pay, the cruise lines would know exactly how much they would recoup, and they would be able to pay decent wages to all their staff in the service sector. All the griping over 'stiffing the staff' and whether Brits and Aussies don't understand the culture could be a thing of the past. Calm..:)

 

What does it matter which vocabulary word is used...people get so caught up o that, and we all know it's the same thing on a cruise ship. Back and forth over the vocabulary word used is again, more semantics. Either way the same result is achieved, an amount is aded to all bills, and is used to pay the staff. If it was buried in the curse fear, it is the same thing, the amount is included in our bills, and used to pay the staff.

 

To me "service fee"sounds like the company retains it, "gratuity" means it goes directly to line level employees as far as the difference between the vocabulary words.

 

What "benefit" is there to calling it a service charge versus a gratuity versus having it included in (and thus increasing) the fare?

 

To me I see no difference in the end game. What am I missing? I have yet to see a reasoned answer to this.

 

Where do you get your definition of gratuity? Dictionary.com defines it as

 

noun, plural gratuities.

1. a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.

2. something given without claim or demand.

 

Noting about being related to service level.

Edited August 3, 2015 by cle-guy

[Lsimon]

It should not be called a Gratuity (defined as a voluntary payment to show appreciation for exceptional service) but rather a Service Charge (an additional mandatory payment). Then everyone would have to pay, the cruise lines would know exactly how much they would recoup, and they would be able to pay decent wages to all their staff in the service sector. All the griping over 'stiffing the staff' and whether Brits and Aussies don't understand the culture could be a thing of the past. Calm..:)

 

A truly brilliant idea that has been brought up many times on these forums. Almost as good as the idea of just including enough in the cruise fare to cover adequate wages without any need for add-ons. If only it was reality. But it is not the reality of Celebrity, nor of it's main competitors, and not a good reason for not tipping as some choose to use it to justify their actions.

[gergles]

Service charges are taxed differently than gratuities. X is going to keep calling them 'gratuities' (and doing everything they can to make them basically mandatory) so that they aren't included as part of the employee's wages that X has to pay taxes on, but that they can still promise staff that 90+% (or whatever percentage) of people will pay the grats.

 

As long as they aren't actually mandatory, then they are (legally, at least, Webster would probably disagree) 'gratuities' and not 'service charges'. This is to X's advantage, which is why they insist on calling them gratuities even though they're basically mandatory expenses and the staff behaves as if they are a guaranteed part of their wage.

[RocketMan275]

Hi Rocket Man

It would seem far more reasonable to me to determine wages based on the the country where the cruise line is listed on the stock exchange, rather than the countries of origin of the employees.

 

Why is that more reasonable than paying them a 'living wage' in the country where they live?

[RocketMan275]

That last statement is offensive at the very least. How do you know everybody's financial situation? What about the statement that anybody that can't afford a suite, can't afford to cruise. Same thing, just as insensitive and unknowing.

 

Are you saying that some should be excused from paying gratuities because of their financial situation? Should the cost of a cruise be determined by someone's ability to pay?