Bait and switch

[LMaxwell]

I will have to look into it. Thanks for the information. Is it better than AAA. I have them and it saves us a little over the year.

 

I have both, but AAA is more for the roadside and towing than for their discounts. There's some overlap, but it seems like my AARP cards work in more places than AAA. your mileage may vary.

[NLH Arizona]

This is a forum to discuss NCL, not every other company out there.

 

If we point out a flaw in NCL's armor, the proper thing to do is address the flaw, not say well XYZ that sells ABC also has a flaw. That's deflection.

 

 

I didn't realize asking a company to honestly advertise something was holding them to a significantly higher standard than the rest of the industry.

 

Which sounds better in an ad

 

FREE DRINK PACKAGE*

 

SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED DRINK PACKAGE*

To me. FREE DRINK PACKAGE* is better in the ad and being a savvy consumer whenever I see an *, I know to read the terms and conditions because there are certainly some restrictions. The drink package is free, not reduced, it is the gratuities that you are paying.

[LMaxwell]

To me. FREE DRINK PACKAGE* is better in the ad and being a savvy consumer whenever I see an *, I know to read the terms and conditions because there are certainly some restrictions. The drink package is free, not reduced, it is the gratuities that you are paying.

 

So you can't actually get it for free then.

[Moby0215]

First -- They slash rates to fill ships, and some who book early are seeing the high rate increases.

 

That negates all the arguments about rates being high or low.

 

 

 

They advertise the specialty restaurants and the booze packages as free, but charge an 18 percent "gratuity or service charge" which cover their costs. If something is advertised as free, it should be free. I don't like to be lied to, so my decision for a cruise will be with a company that I can trust, or with one that cuts prices low enough to offset their shoddy advertising practices.

 

 

If you had a coupon for a free meal at a restaurant and then you receive a bill for $0 but it had an 18 percent gratuity would you still complain? The meal is free. The tip is not. That's normal. I understand that when they first had the UBP promotion that they also paid the gratuity as part of the perk. That was an excellent deal. But still doesn't detract from the fact that the UBP is still free and still a great deal. If you don't like the UBP or SDP as perks because you have to pay the tips then just pick something else. I for one don't want to see this promo ever end as I get much value from it.

 

 

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[LMaxwell]

If you had a coupon for a free meal at a restaurant and then you receive a bill for $0 but it had an 18 percent gratuity would you still complain? The meal is free. The tip is not. That's normal. I understand that when they first had the UBP promotion that they also paid the gratuity as part of the perk. That was an excellent deal. But still doesn't detract from the fact that the UBP is still free and still a great deal. If you don't like the UBP or SDP as perks because you have to pay the tips then just pick something else. I for one don't want to see this promo ever end as I get much value from it.

 

 

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Depends; was the restaurant up front about what they expected for a 'free' meal?

[mianmike]

To me. FREE DRINK PACKAGE* is better in the ad and being a savvy consumer whenever I see an *, I know to read the terms and conditions because there are certainly some restrictions. The drink package is free, not reduced, it is the gratuities that you are paying.

 

If you are truly paying for gratuities it should be voluntary and based on the actual amount of service provided, not some arbitrary figure not based on actual usage. A gratuity is something given voluntarily or beyond obligation for some type of service. A mandatory "promotional service fee" is not a gratuity but a subsidization of the product.

 

NCL would be better served to call their promotion: :FREE Drink Ingredients! (mixing, pouring and handing you the drink not included).

[mianmike]

If you had a coupon for a free meal at a restaurant and then you receive a bill for $0 but it had an 18 percent gratuity would you still complain? The meal is free. The tip is not. That's normal. I understand that when they first had the UBP promotion that they also paid the gratuity as part of the perk. That was an excellent deal. But still doesn't detract from the fact that the UBP is still free and still a great deal. If you don't like the UBP or SDP as perks because you have to pay the tips then just pick something else. I for one don't want to see this promo ever end as I get much value from it.

 

 

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If NCL ran the restaurant, it wouldn't be an 18% gratuity but some arbitrary fee added to the bill and unless you ate like a horse it would be rather expensive.

[Moby0215]

Depends; was the restaurant up front about what they expected for a 'free' meal?

 

 

Have you never went to a restaurant with a coupon? Everyone (at least in the US) knows that gratuity is expected, and sometimes even automatically included.

 

 

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[Moby0215]

If NCL ran the restaurant, it wouldn't be an 18% gratuity but some arbitrary fee added to the bill and unless you ate like a horse it would be rather expensive.

 

 

I'm not sure what you are talking about. 18% is exactly what NCL charges.

 

 

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[mythictravel]

To me. FREE DRINK PACKAGE* is better in the ad and being a savvy consumer whenever I see an *, I know to read the terms and conditions because there are certainly some restrictions. The drink package is free, not reduced, it is the gratuities that you are paying.

 

 

FREE DRINK PACKAGE*

* cruise fare not included

[LMaxwell]

Have you never went to a restaurant with a coupon? Everyone (at least in the US) knows that gratuity is expected, and sometimes even automatically included.

 

 

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Expectation is one thing; and I have always tipped on the pre-discounted amount, but that's my choice. I have never been automatically charged anything in a restaurant when I use a coupon for free, and I have only had automatic gratuities added to parties of 8 or more.

 

So, yeah, depends was the restaurant upfront about what they expected for their 'free' meal?

Edited December 24, 2015 by LMaxwell

[Golfin55]

Princess Cruises gives OBC for military and veterans on every single sailing.

 

Have you ever asked NCL to do this or put it on a survey? If you think it is a worthy cause, communicate it to NCL.

 

 

NCL offers a flat 10% MBD. Although it states selected sailings. It is usually always given.

 

Princess states the same legal ease with there OBC program.

[SteveH2508]

Princess Cruises gives OBC for military and veterans on every single sailing.

 

Have you ever asked NCL to do this or put it on a survey? If you think it is a worthy cause, communicate it to NCL.

 

Princess do it for UK veterans as well.

 

P&O give it for UK veterans.

 

Two reasons (albeit minor) why we have moved on to them.

[LMaxwell]

NCL offers a flat 10% MBD. Although it states selected sailings. It is usually always given.

 

Princess states the same legal ease with there OBC program.

 

Yeah good luck finding an NCL cruise it applies to. Really.

 

Princess it is across the board.

 

MSC does 10% too.

[Golfin55]

Yeah good luck finding an NCL cruise it applies to. Really.

 

 

 

Princess it is across the board.

 

 

 

MSC does 10% too.

 

 

With princess it is not a cross the board. Like NCL, prior discounts make this an ineligible fare. The restrictions are practically the same.

 

http://www.princess.com/military_benefit_program/#.VnxRRew8LCQ

[Moby0215]

Expectation is one thing; and I have always tipped on the pre-discounted amount, but that's my choice. I have never been automatically charged anything in a restaurant when I use a coupon for free, and I have only had automatic gratuities added to parties of 8 or more.

 

So, yeah, depends was the restaurant upfront about what they expected for their 'free' meal?

 

 

You keep saying "upfront". There is nothing that needs to be upfront about tipping for a meal. It is the expected normal. Sure you could walk out and not tip but I would hope that most people would not. When it comes to coupons for free or discounted meals (I use many of these type of things from restaurant.com) the restaurant will auto charge the tip. Not always but many times. But either way it doesn't matter, the tip should always be paid. I'm just saying that in in these cases the meal was Free. Nothing bait and switch or false advertising about it. Having to pay the tip does not change that fact.

 

 

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[SteveH2508]

With princess it is not a cross the board. Like NCL, prior discounts make this an ineligible fare. The restrictions are practically the same.

 

http://www.princess.com/military_benefit_program/#.VnxRRew8LCQ

 

I have not looked too closely at NCL's military discount because it does not apply to me - but - their's is a discount - Princess's is an OBC. NCL's discount is only for certain sailings - Princess's OBC is available on all sailings (except preferential staff/TA rates). Princess's OBC is stackable as well.

 

If you cannot grasp the difference then I give up.

[electro]

NCL offers a flat 10% MBD. Although it states selected sailings. It is usually always given.

 

Princess states the same legal ease with there OBC program.

 

Your right, it is only on select sailing and is not always given. At least not to me.

As previously stated, of the 17 cruises I booked, I received the military discount only once.

Edited December 24, 2015 by electro

[swedish weave]

Same could be said for every other company that has offers, but that isn't going to happen either. It is not just NCL, again, why should they be held to a different standard than virtually every other company out there that most people deal with?

 

Have you ever heard the words "honesty" and "truth in advertising" ???

 

Just because other companies are not truthful, that is no excuse for NCL to do it. What you are saying is if some people rob banks, it is acceptable for others to do likewise.

 

Which of your examples advertise their merchandise as free, but charge for it ?

Edited December 24, 2015 by swedish weave

[sparks1093]

That it is a matter of opinion.

 

No, not really. A premium line doesn't charge what a mainstream line charges, otherwise it's just a mainstream line. Someone is going to have to pay for the millions of dollars he is putting into upgrades by 2017. If that debt isn't paid then what happens? What happens isn't a matter of opinion, it's called default.

[mianmike]

I'm not sure what you are talking about. 18% is exactly what NCL charges.

 

 

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I'm talking in relation to the "Free Unlimited Beverages." NCL does not charge 18% for each drink. If over the course of a 7 day cruise we drank $400 worth of booze an 18% fee would equate to $72. Instead NCL set an arbitrary "Promotional Service Fee" of $161.28. For our $400 worth of drinks we would be paying an equivalent 40%"Promotional Service Fee." We would have to guzzle $900 worth of booze for it to be an 18% fee.

[swedish weave]

Have you never went to a restaurant with a coupon? Everyone (at least in the US) knows that gratuity is expected, and sometimes even automatically included.

 

 

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I have -- I live in the US --- I thank them graciously for the free meal.

[sparks1093]

I'm talking in relation to the "Free Unlimited Beverages." NCL does not charge 18% for each drink. If over the course of a 7 day cruise we drank $400 worth of booze an 18% fee would equate to $72. Instead NCL set an arbitrary "Promotional Service Fee" of $161.28. For our $400 worth of drinks we would be paying an equivalent 40%"Promotional Service Fee." We would have to guzzle $900 worth of booze for it to be an 18% fee.

 

I've never done the math but I was under the impression that the $161.28 represented 18% of what the UBP cost if you buy it. If that is not so and it's just an arbitrary number then I can really see why people are upset (as it is it is a good demonstration of the decision making going on at NCL- hey, let's offer everyone a free UBP to get them to book. Oh, wait, now that we've done that we have to pony up the money to pay the crew for the lost tips on the UBP. We'll pass that amount on to the passengers, they won't mind).

[Moby0215]

I'm talking in relation to the "Free Unlimited Beverages." NCL does not charge 18% for each drink. If over the course of a 7 day cruise we drank $400 worth of booze an 18% fee would equate to $72. Instead NCL set an arbitrary "Promotional Service Fee" of $161.28. For our $400 worth of drinks we would be paying an equivalent 40%"Promotional Service Fee." We would have to guzzle $900 worth of booze for it to be an 18% fee.

 

 

It's not arbitrary. The UBP costs $64/day times 7 days for 2 people = $896. Take $896 times 18% = $161.28. Nothing arbitrary about it. If you feel it is not worth it than just choose a different promo. For me it's a steal.

 

 

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[missintuitive]

I guess you could colloquially call that bait and switch but it is closer to false advertising. Or, in some areas, breech of contract because the contract is more than the "terms and services" and extends to the initial sales offer.

 

So what recourse does a consumer have? You probably aren't going to get a lawyer to represent you in a civil claim because the amount of the harm to you is so low. You could file a Small Claims case in Florida and might even win (I don't know FL law, but often large corporations don't even show up for small case and you win a default judgement). You can make a complaint with the Florida Attorney General so they will follow up on a criminal investigation. You can complain on social media but because the resolution you want is so far more expensive than losing you as a customer you are left with one solution: Never sail NCL again.

 

If you, as some have said, will still sail NCL "for a good deal" even though they engage in bait and switch, false advertising and breech of contract you will never effect change. And NCL knows they can continue violating your principles but a nice shiny nickle will get you back on board. You are then the PERFECT customer for a corrupt organization: no matter what they do, you can be bought.

 

My recourse is to send a letter to refute the charges (all except the magic show). If I don't get the resolution I want, I will take my cruise dollars elsewhere. I had a great cruise on NCL but I had great cruises on other lines as well without worrying about having to dispute charges. This is MY experience and I'm sharing it.