Will Turkey be Dropped? Another bombing.

[Gig103]

Danger isn't always where expected. Last November, the day I left for an Egypt land tour, Paris was attacked. Then the day after I was in Bethlehem, there were shootings in San Bernadino. Months of hesitation about cancelling my trip to the Middle East, and it was the US & Europe that were terrorized.

 

So I am among those who say I hope Celebrity doesn't cancel Turkish ports.

[Oz_Steve]

Ephesus is a long way from the violence and I would deem it safe to travel to (I was there less than 6 months ago). Istanbul is another matter and although the most recent event has been in Ankara there was an event there very recently that was in the very area where tourists congregate in large numbers. The sites of interest there are in a relatively smallish area.

I would also point out to the hairy chested amongst you that whilst there may be violence in the US they are rather random and not concentrated in a certain area and counter terrorism work is probably more robust than in Turkey. It should further be noted that the violence is escalating and that the underlying cause is still very much alive and well and the actions are undertaken by organised groups with extensive networks and support rather than lone wolf nutter attacks.

 

Would you swim at a beach where there had been numerous attacks and there were increasing numbers of sharks in the same area?

Just saying.

[jael001]

We're on one of the cruises in August that has had Istanbul dropped but is still visiting Kusadasi and Bodrum. I wont be at all suprised if they announce they're going to drop the Turkish ports altogether, which will be very disappointing if we have to miss Ephesus as that was one of the main reasons for booking this cruise.

[HokiePoq]

Istanbul and Ephesus, both ports frequented by Celebrity cruises, are not within the Travel Warning Area issued by the US Department of State. That area is in South Eastern Turkey along the Syrian boarder.

 

The link below will take you to the most recent warning issued by the USDOS on February 4th. If you click on the reference map, you will see Istanbul and Ismir (adjacent to Ephesis) are not in the warning area.

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/alertswarnings/turkey-travel-warning.html

 

To put terrorist bombings in perspective, you have an extremely small chance of being killed in such an attack. The percentages are much, much higher of you being killed by some other unpredictable event.

 

http://pressfortruth.ca/top-stories/what-are-your-chances-being-killed-terrorist-attack/

 

Don't get me wrong. Travel can be dangerous. Turkey can be dangerous and that it shares a boarder with Syria, the risks might increase if traveling there.

 

I would add that the target of yesterday's bombing in Ankara was a military one. Did Turkish forces just shell a Kurdish military unit engaged in fighting ISIS in Syria? Yes? Connect the dots. This bombing was very likely Kurdish retaliation for the shelling.

 

The Kurds are a thorn in Turkish President Erdogen's side. There is a lot of tension between Erdogen and the Kurds who want an independent state and this has been going on for decades. There has been speculation that the bombing last October in Ankara may have been organized and carried out by elements sympathetic to Erdogen's policies and opposed to that of the Kurds. In other words it was meant to stir up Turkish support for Erdogen and dislike for the Kurds.

 

Worse things have happened in this complicated world. It is right to be cautious when traveling in it but fearful enough to avoid traveling all together, even in areas that might have a slightly elevated risk? That's for you to decide when you have some facts at hand upon which to base your decision.

 

Thank you for giving the facts on this issue. We had to cancel our land tour which spent time in Ankara. Had it just been the attached Connie cruise, I would have gone anyway as the ports have not been included in that warning. Lesson for me: Go where you want when you can. Should have taken that tour a few years ago when I first heard about it!

[MVPinBoynton]

We are very much looking forward to finally visiting Istanbul for several days before our October Constellation cruise. I am more concerned about having a wreck driving to the Miami airport than terrorism in Istanbul at this point. Obviously, if there was widespread violence going on there, my opinion could change; but the type of terrorism going on there so far does not make Turkey anymore of a risk than many other ports. This cruise also includes Israel; which, to me, would have a much higher chance for being cancelled than Turkey.

 

I'm getting too old to be able to put off visiting the few places still on my bucket list. I can't wait until there is peace in the Middle East. Actually, I don't think a baby born today would be able to visit the Middle East in their lifetime, if they were waiting for that. I just hope that the situation improves and the violence stops, more so for the lovely Turkish people; since the situation is hurting them much more than us tourists.

 

With the price of our cruise dropping every month, the bigger risk to our vacation plans is that Celebrity would cancel Turkey to get more bookings and increase prices.

Edited February 18, 2016 by MVPinBoynton

[bogofman]

We are very much looking forward to finally visiting Istanbul for several days before our October Constellation cruise. I am more concerned about driving to the Miami airport than terrorism in Istanbul at this point. .

 

Whats wrong with driving to/from Miami airport?

 

We are arriving in Miami airport ( from UK) for the fist time soon and will hire a car and drive around fro a week before finishing up at port evaglades to pick up the ship.

 

What should we be worried about? if anything.

[MVPinBoynton]

Whats wrong with driving to/from Miami airport?

 

We are arriving in Miami airport ( from UK) for the fist time soon and will hire a car and drive around fro a week before finishing up at port evaglades to pick up the ship.

 

What should we be worried about? if anything.

 

I am sorry for getting you concerned. I should have added that I was more worried about having a wreck driving to the airport. The traffic can be a challenge. I have edited the post to clarify that. Thanks for expressing your concern, since I did want to make clear what I meant.

Edited February 18, 2016 by MVPinBoynton

[jbuch02]

Whats wrong with driving to/from Miami airport?

 

We are arriving in Miami airport ( from UK) for the fist time soon and will hire a car and drive around fro a week before finishing up at port evaglades to pick up the ship.

 

What should we be worried about? if anything.

 

Not a thing. The OP's comment was of a comparative nature and with a little bit of humor.

 

The traffic is horrible in and around Miami. If you are booking a rental car, the left hand drive may be a little confusing for you Brits. A weekend drive is easy on the Freeway System but workdays can be a pain.

 

Make sure you have a good Navigator App on your smart phone. I like one called Waze. It's free. Or you can get a GPS Navigator from your rental agency for a fee.

 

Sleep in, take a late breakfast and head out on the streets after 10a and return after 7:30p. Weekday traffic is much better during those periods. Weekend traffic is usually fine.

[MVPinBoynton]

Not a thing. The OP's comment was of a comparative nature and with a little bit of humor.

 

The traffic is horrible in and around Miami. If you are booking a rental car, the left hand drive may be a little confusing for you Brits. A weekend drive is easy on the Freeway System but workdays can be a pain.

 

Make sure you have a good Navigator App on your smart phone. I like one called Waze. It's free. Or you can get a GPS Navigator from your rental agency for a fee.

 

Sleep in, take a late breakfast and head out on the streets after 10a and return after 7:30p. Weekday traffic is much better during those periods. Weekend traffic is usually fine.

 

Excellent advice.

[bogofman]

Not a thing. The OP's comment was of a comparative nature and with a little bit of humor.

 

The traffic is horrible in and around Miami. If you are booking a rental car, the left hand drive may be a little confusing for you Brits. A weekend drive is easy on the Freeway System but workdays can be a pain.

 

Make sure you have a good Navigator App on your smart phone. I like one called Waze. It's free. Or you can get a GPS Navigator from your rental agency for a fee.

 

Sleep in, take a late breakfast and head out on the streets after 10a and return after 7:30p. Weekday traffic is much better during those periods. Weekend traffic is usually fine.

 

 

Thanks for the advice,

 

we will arrive at the airport mid afternoon and head to the car rental, via the train link.

 

we intend to stay at an hotel fairly local for the first night ( as its near mid night for us)

 

and then head down to the keys, after 10am will not be a problem :)

 

coming back will leave the car as close to port Everglades as possible and take the rental companies shuttle to the ship ( probably be Avis.)

[Karynanne]

We're on one of the cruises in August that has had Istanbul dropped but is still visiting Kusadasi and Bodrum. I wont be at all suprised if they announce they're going to drop the Turkish ports altogether, which will be very disappointing if we have to miss Ephesus as that was one of the main reasons for booking this cruise.

 

We too have the same ports in Turkey in Oct. But if Celebrity cancels these ports, I feel they'll reasoning will be for the safety of their passengers. We've had other cruises in past years that have had itinerary changes, and we've always had the attitude that it was in our best interest, not to be in that port.

[MrsKNZ]

Ephesus is a long way from the violence and I would deem it safe to travel to (I was there less than 6 months ago). Istanbul is another matter and although the most recent event has been in Ankara there was an event there very recently that was in the very area where tourists congregate in large numbers. The sites of interest there are in a relatively smallish area.

 

I would also point out to the hairy chested amongst you that whilst there may be violence in the US they are rather random and not concentrated in a certain area and counter terrorism work is probably more robust than in Turkey. It should further be noted that the violence is escalating and that the underlying cause is still very much alive and well and the actions are undertaken by organised groups with extensive networks and support rather than lone wolf nutter attacks.

 

 

 

Would you swim at a beach where there had been numerous attacks and there were increasing numbers of sharks in the same area?

 

Just saying.

 

 

Hairy chested? Funny, I've never noticed having a hirsute bosom before. Your argument would be taken more seriously if you didn't stoop to that sort of generalisation.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Oz_Steve]

Hairy chested? Funny, I've never noticed having a hirsute bosom before. Your argument would be taken more seriously if you didn't stoop to that sort of generalisation.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Perhaps you may understand it better if you knew what a generalisation was.

[MrsKNZ]

 

I would also point out to the hairy chested amongst you that whilst there may be violence in the US they are rather random and not concentrated in a certain area and counter terrorism work is probably more robust than in Turkey. It should further be noted that the violence is escalating and that the underlying cause is still very much alive and well and the actions are undertaken by organised groups with extensive networks and support rather than lone wolf nutter attacks.

 

The implication of the above being that those of us who have raised violence in the US in this thread are hairy chested. That's a generalisation of our physical characteristics (quote from free dictionary.com: a basis of generalisation that is accepted as true and that can be used as a basis for reasoning). Either way, inaccurate description of at least one of the posters who disagree with the implied description of Turkey being too dangerous to visit and the US as being 100% safe. For whatever reason.

[reedprincess]

Ephesus is a long way from the violence and I would deem it safe to travel to (I was there less than 6 months ago). Istanbul is another matter and although the most recent event has been in Ankara there was an event there very recently that was in the very area where tourists congregate in large numbers. The sites of interest there are in a relatively smallish area.

I would also point out to the hairy chested amongst you that whilst there may be violence in the US they are rather random and not concentrated in a certain area and counter terrorism work is probably more robust than in Turkey. It should further be noted that the violence is escalating and that the underlying cause is still very much alive and well and the actions are undertaken by organised groups with extensive networks and support rather than lone wolf nutter attacks.

 

Would you swim at a beach where there had been numerous attacks and there were increasing numbers of sharks in the same area?

Just saying.

 

Neither a hairy chest or hirsute bosom to be found around here. Sorry to disappoint you. Interesting characterization of those who raise the very notable concern regarding the random violence in the US of both homegrown and foreign terrorists.

The very fact that it is so random and spread over such a large area actually gives - at least us - more cause for concern rather than less. At least in areas such as eastern Turkey, Syria, etc - it happens in relatively small areas and for recognizable reasons. - not randomly anywhere around a wide and spread out area..

Most people would think twice about visiting Syria - obviously. But the fact that in the US - anywhere in the US really - visitors and citizens may be subjected to a mass shooting in a movie theater or at a college campuses or face a bombing while attending a sporting event or such - anywhere around the country - is disconcerting, to say the least.

If you have accepted and adapted to the random violence because it's in your country - more power to you. I would think it would be more disturbing, not less, that it's happening close to home. Or at the least, you would extend the same tolerance to other areas, where the violence is more contained and more specifically directed.

Again, we all evaluate risks for ourselves when travelling. Currently, we've decided that the risk is worth it to visit the US soon. Given another random gun attack or homegrown terror attack, we may rethink our travel plans. Does the Ankara bombing give us pause - absolutely. But in context, and given distance from Cruise ports and tourism spots, it wouldn't deter us from visiting at this time or in the not too distant future. If the violence moves to those areas, we would of course rethink...

Again, all the best to you in your travels, and at home!

Edited February 19, 2016 by reedprincess

[The_Big_M]

I would also point out to the hairy chested amongst you that whilst there may be violence in the US they are rather random and not concentrated in a certain area

 

Which actually makes it harder to predict, and hence avoid.

 

Looks like you shot your argument in the foot there.

[reedprincess]

Which actually makes it harder to predict, and hence avoid.

 

Looks like you shot your argument in the foot there.

 

+1. My thoughts exactly. And much more concisely put.

[MrsKNZ]

+1. My thoughts exactly. And much more concisely put.

 

 

Ditto! And I amend my earlier comment to 'at least two' without hairy chests [emoji6]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[emileg]

Istanbul and Ephesus, both ports frequented by Celebrity cruises, are not within the Travel Warning Area issued by the US Department of State. That area is in South Eastern Turkey along the Syrian boarder.

 

The link below will take you to the most recent warning issued by the USDOS on February 4th. If you click on the reference map, you will see Istanbul and Ismir (adjacent to Ephesis) are not in the warning area.

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/alertswarnings/turkey-travel-warning.html

 

To put terrorist bombings in perspective, you have an extremely small chance of being killed in such an attack. The percentages are much, much higher of you being killed by some other unpredictable event.

 

http://pressfortruth.ca/top-stories/what-are-your-chances-being-killed-terrorist-attack/

 

Don't get me wrong. Travel can be dangerous. Turkey can be dangerous and that it shares a boarder with Syria, the risks might increase if traveling there.

 

I would add that the target of yesterday's bombing in Ankara was a military one. Did Turkish forces just shell a Kurdish military unit engaged in fighting ISIS in Syria? Yes? Connect the dots. This bombing was very likely Kurdish retaliation for the shelling.

 

The Kurds are a thorn in Turkish President Erdogen's side. There is a lot of tension between Erdogen and the Kurds who want an independent state and this has been going on for decades. There has been speculation that the bombing last October in Ankara may have been organized and carried out by elements sympathetic to Erdogen's policies and opposed to that of the Kurds. In other words it was meant to stir up Turkish support for Erdogen and dislike for the Kurds.

 

Worse things have happened in this complicated world. It is right to be cautious when traveling in it but fearful enough to avoid traveling all together, even in areas that might have a slightly elevated risk? That's for you to decide when you have some facts at hand upon which to base your decision.

Thank you for putting things in perspective. It is important not to be alarmist and consider the facts in a greater perspective. Thank you for your thoughtful point of view.

[emileg]

Using that logic, I would never visit the US, given the rampant gun violence, home grown terrorists, and the foreign terrorist threat.

Yet somehow, no one ever brings that up around here after a particular violent act. Should we have stopped cruising from the West coast due to the San Bernardino violence? Perhaps have dropped the East coast after the Boston bombings, the chopping of police officers in New York, 9/11, the sniper shootings in DC and surrounding areas, Ft Hood, and so on... Yet somehow, the US keeps encouraging visitors to keep coming, that somehow it's a one-off event, etc... I would think we could extend the same view to other overseas areas.

Everyone has to evaluate their own safety and risk tolerance. Obviously we shouldn't put ourselves in specific harm's way if we can help it, ie I wouldn't be touring Syria just now, but I also won't be writing off an entire area for violence that is hundreds of miles away, just as I don't write off the entire US due to the violence there.

Again, a non-reactionary perspective. Thank you.

Edited February 19, 2016 by emileg

[emileg]

Turkey has been almost completely removed from the 2017 schedules. Of Celebrity. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Celebrity and the other cruise lines, who haven't already pulled out of Turkey this year, are considering options.

How sad both for perspective travelers and the Turkish people who rely on tourism.

Edited February 19, 2016 by emileg

[MicCanberra]

Fingers crossed I still get into Ephesus , but if it is pulled, so be it.

[MicCanberra]

 

Would you swim at a beach where there had been numerous attacks and there were increasing numbers of sharks in the same area?

Just saying.

 

Good point, except the sharks do not provide advice that they will attack and it is still random. I will still swim with sharks but not in deep water frequented by Great whites unless I am caged.:D

Edited February 19, 2016 by MicCanberra

[MicCanberra]

Neither a hairy chest or hirsute bosom to be found around here. Sorry to disappoint you. Interesting characterization of those who raise the very notable concern regarding the random violence in the US of both homegrown and foreign terrorists.

The very fact that it is so random and spread over such a large area actually gives - at least us - more cause for concern rather than less. At least in areas such as eastern Turkey, Syria, etc - it happens in relatively small areas and for recognizable reasons. - not randomly anywhere around a wide and spread out area..

Most people would think twice about visiting Syria - obviously. But the fact that in the US - anywhere in the US really - visitors and citizens may be subjected to a mass shooting in a movie theater or at a college campuses or face a bombing while attending a sporting event or such - anywhere around the country - is disconcerting, to say the least.

If you have accepted and adapted to the random violence because it's in your country - more power to you. I would think it would be more disturbing, not less, that it's happening close to home. Or at the least, you would extend the same tolerance to other areas, where the violence is more contained and more specifically directed.

Again, we all evaluate risks for ourselves when travelling. Currently, we've decided that the risk is worth it to visit the US soon. Given another random gun attack or homegrown terror attack, we may rethink our travel plans. Does the Ankara bombing give us pause - absolutely. But in context, and given distance from Cruise ports and tourism spots, it wouldn't deter us from visiting at this time or in the not too distant future. If the violence moves to those areas, we would of course rethink...

Again, all the best to you in your travels, and at home!

 

Good post.

[Oz_Steve]

Perhaps I should have been clearer.

 

I was referring to the dismissal that those concerned about visiting Turkey were needlessly concerned and that perhaps some of the bravado was a little misplaced. Cruise ships go to (primarily) two places in Turkey, Ephesus and Istanbul. IMHO Ephesus appears to be relatively safe but Istanbul less so and most likely to become more unsafe as the conditions and irritants that have caused it to become less safe are still present and likely to escalate.

 

Yes the latest attack was in Ankara as was another but there have been two attacks in tourist areas of Istanbul in the last 6 months or so. One at the palace on the other side of the Bosphorus ie not Topkapi (whose name escapes me). The other at the Hippodrome which is in the same area that contains Blue Mosque, Hagia Sophia, The Cistern, The Grand Bazzaar, Topkapi Palace, The Spice Market etc.

 

I am sure there have been random violent incidences in the US but perhaps not 2 in the past 6 months in the same place that has an increased probability of there being more. If there had been two such incidents in NYC in that period with the root cause still being in play then perhaps it may cause you to take pause about visiting there. I am just saying that there is a higher probability that you are likely to become a victim if you are in Istanbul than in any random spot in the US. Although I would judge (as someone pointed out) that Israel is even more likely.

 

Having said that, I personally would revisit Istanbul and indeed other parts of Turkey (excepting maybe Ankara and definitely the border area) but my wife would not. If I did visit Istanbul I would recognise that there is a higher risk and act accordingly. That would be sensible. IMHO in Ankara the likelihood is that tourists would be collateral damage rather than the target but in Istanbul tourists are likely the target.

 

Sorry I can't play longer but I have to go and prepare for a possible cyclone. :eek: