PVSA - Jones Act

[ryni]

Was looking to do a back to back on NCL next year, I'm thinking it is probably ok, but wondering if there isn't some something in the PVSA that is going to get in the way. The itinerary would look like this:

 

Cruise 1: Round Trip LA -> LA (with stops in Mexico)

 

Cruise 2: LA -> Vancouver, BC

 

Each leg is obviously good (1 - round trip to same port with near foreign ports, and 2 - start US port ends foreign port). The question is, is there any issue with putting them together, essentially making an: LA -> Vancouver (via Mexica, LA, San Fran, Canada)?

 

From what I've been able to glean about the PSVA this should be good, just not sure if their os some obscure part of the law that would prevent it.

 

Thanks!

[triptolemus]

Port stops don't count as transporting someone from one place to another. The final destination of the ship is what matters.

 

So, to start in the US and end in Canada would not be a problem. As far as the US is concerned, you are traveling from LAX to YVR. No problem.

[Daghis]

Yes, that itinerary is fine. Ultimately, It's LA to Vancouver, which, as you noted, is acceptable.

[TTFromSommersTown]

You are fine as the entire trip is LA to Vancouver. The time that this becomes an issue is if you go from LA to another US port without going via a distant foreign port.

[Kamloops50]

You are fine as the entire trip is LA to Vancouver. The time that this becomes an issue is if you go from LA to another US port without going via a distant foreign port.

 

Actually both cruises are fine. As long as cruise 1 stops in any Mexico port is fine. Cruise 2 is adefinatle OK.

The allows a closed loop cruise (cruise 1) as long as they stop in a near foreign port. A cruise between two different US reports requires a distant foreign port.

Here a link to a description of the PVSA

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Vessel_Services_Act_of_1886

[ryni]

Thanks everyone for the quick replies! I was pretty sure I had read everything right and that this setup should work, just wanted to make sure before I tried.

[GeezerCouple]

Actually both cruises are fine. As long as cruise 1 stops in any Mexico port is fine. Cruise 2 is adefinatle OK.

The allows a closed loop cruise (cruise 1) as long as they stop in a near foreign port. A cruise between two different US reports requires a distant foreign port.

Here a link to a description of the PVSA

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Vessel_Services_Act_of_1886

 

My understanding is that each of two B2B cruises could be "okay", but pairing them one right after the other might not be.

 

There was another recent thread like this, where the paired cruises was *not* acceptable under PVSA.

[Kamloops50]

My understanding is that each of two B2B cruises could be "okay", but pairing them one right after the other might not be.

 

There was another recent thread like this, where the paired cruises was *not* acceptable under PVSA.

 

Read the link I attached .

[GeezerCouple]

Read the link I attached .

 

I'm stating the above so that others reading here will understand that it is *possible* that two cruises that are each "okay" (per PVSA) will know that it is possible that B2B, they are not.

 

The discussion just above made it seem that because each of the two cruises was permitted, B2B they'd be okay.

 

In THIS case, that was correct.

But as a general 'rule', it might not be.

 

Not everyone goes to read every link, especially if they think what they've already read is sufficient information.

 

We are *very* familiar with PVSA.

 

And Chengkp75 (who worked for NCL) has also been extremely helpful about this, including the in the recent thread where someone could *not* do a B2B with 2 cruises, each of which was, alone, just fine.

[Kamloops50]

If you cruise between two different cities and rtn to the first one. That isn't allowed.

[GeezerCouple]

If you cruise between two different cities and rtn to the first one. That isn't allowed.

 

I'll defer to Chengkp75 on this one, which is too vague, and as written, not correct.

 

(The key in terms of violating the PSVA is, in fact, cruising from one USA port and returning to a *different* USA port, if on a foreign flagged vessel, unless the itinerary includes a distant foreign port. The problem isn't returning to the same port.)

[triptolemus]

If you cruise between two different cities and rtn to the first one. That isn't allowed.

 

The PVSA confuses enough people and posts like this nonsense help no one. If you don't know, just don't post. If you can't be bothered to type out a coherent response -- as evidenced by your use of "rtn" -- then don't post.

[bonvoyagie]

I don't see any difference between the OP's plans and what NCL already does on a couple of B2B - one is the Bermuda to Quebec where you do a RT Boston to Bermuda and then go to Quebec - they also do the reverse Quebec to Boston to Bermuda to Boston.

[GeezerCouple]

I don't see any difference between the OP's plans and what NCL already does on a couple of B2B - one is the Bermuda to Quebec where you do a RT Boston to Bermuda and then go to Quebec - they also do the reverse Quebec to Boston to Bermuda to Boston.

 

To repeat, what OP is planning is *OK*.

 

The problem is that it was "explained" as being "OK" because each of the two separate trips was "OK", and that MIGHT NOT WORK.

 

That is, just because two separate trips are each allowed, doing them B2B might run afoul of the PVSA.

 

The specific two mentioned above do not violate PSVA, but not for the reason given.

 

The PROBLEM *might* occur when one starts at one USA port and ends at a different USA port.

[cruizinwithkids]

 

(The key in terms of violating the PSVA is, in fact, cruising from one USA port and returning to a *different* USA port, if on a foreign flagged vessel, unless the itinerary includes a distant foreign port. The problem isn't returning to the same port.)

 

I've always felt I understand this law/rule. I'm curious as to why Puerto Rico doesn't count as a US port.

[Daghis]

I've always felt I understand this law/rule. I'm curious as to why Puerto Rico doesn't count as a US port.

It does count as a US port, but there was a specific exception put into place to allow transport of passengers (not cargo) between one US port and Puerto Rico until such time as a US-flagged ship provides such a service.

[njhorseman]

I've always felt I understand this law/rule. I'm curious as to why Puerto Rico doesn't count as a US port.

 

There's a regulatory exception that was put in place for Puerto Rico because of the lack of US-flagged ships.

Edited July 19, 2016 by njhorseman

[cruizinwithkids]

It does count as a US port, but there was a specific exception put into place to allow transport of passengers (not cargo) between one US port and Puerto Rico until such time as a US-flagged ship provides such a service.

 

Thank you.

 

I was looking at itineraries the other day and was excited to see a cruise originating in San Juan and ending in Miami. I clicked on it expecting to see something new and exciting. It was the same old thing. LOL

[Pszaffveauhraunne]

As others have explained, what you're planning is fine. Where you would suddenly run into trouble is if you then stayed aboard the ship on its' next sailing, if that terminated in Seattle (whether a 1-night Vancouver-Seattle, or a 7-day Vancouver-Alaska-Seattle).

 

Doing a repo from LA - Vancouver, immediately followed by a cruise to Seattle would be looked upon as a "LA - Seattle" cruise, which would cause problems.

[FranknBeans]

Looking at doing b2b from Quebec ports are Canadian plus Bar Harbor ME then boston

2nd leg is to Bermuda return? Thanks

Edited July 31, 2016 by FranknBeans

[GeezerCouple]

Looking at doing b2b from Quebec ports are Canadian plus Bar Harbor ME then boston

2nd leg is to Bermuda return? Thanks

 

The PVSA problem arises when the beginning port and the final port are two *different* USA ports.

 

And this is whether it is one cruise or two (or more as B2B's) in sequence on the same foreign flagged ship.

 

Intermediate ports of call within the USA are not of concern for PVSA.

(Think of the multiple stops of the NCL Sun, along Alaska coast, from Vancouver to Seward. That's why that one-way to/from Seward cannot begin or end in Seattle.)

 

So Quebec - Boston is fine, and Boston - Bermuda is fine.

Neither cruise violates PVSA, and the full sequence, Quebec - Bermuda, doesn't, either.

 

What wouldn't be fine is if you somehow wanted to arrange something like Boston - Quebec - New York (or Miami) as B2B's.

 

Hopefully Chengkp75 will correct me if anything above is incorrect.

 

And... the Jones Act is for cargo. So only if you eat a HUGE amount.... :D

[chengkp75]

Not quite sure of the itineraries, but I'm guessing it is Quebec - Boston, then Boston round trip. But, again, both legs are legal, and together they are legal, since the combined cruise starts in a foreign (sorry Frank, Canada is considered foreign) port.

[FranknBeans]

Looking at doing b2b from Quebec ports are Canadian plus Bar Harbor ME then boston

2nd leg is to Bermuda return? Thanks

 

It's a yes, i found the answer