UK cruises, new gratuities

[RocketMan275]

It kind of like Verizon's hidden charges. They want to hide charges and make it look like a cheap price when they advertise, the they add service fees and port taxes. Sometimes this can add over 30% to cost of the cruise. Cruise lines like a lot of large corporations want to trick us.

 

Look at the fast food restaurants. Compare the picture of the food to what you actually get. That is why I say we should not let the cruise lines off the hook with this issue. There are two choices for people who care about the cruise line issue. 1. Don't cruise. 2. Remove tips which is also policy. When people don't get paid what they think its worth, they will stop signing contracts and the cruise lines will be forced to raise the wage.

 

I traveled on HAL when they did not allow tips. We still tipped some for great service, but there was a lot less anxiety when tipping is based on service as apposed to paying wages.

 

You seem to not be reading with any comprehension. I am not advocating anything. I am just showing options while trying to make cruise lines more responsible. By seafarer standards crew's must be paid a minimum. It cruise line get enough money from tips then that relieves them of some responsibility. If they do not get enough tips the cruise lines must make that up.

 

There agreement with the seafarers union is that the cruise lines are responsible for all money payments. The cruise line are trying to transfer their contractual agreements.

 

No, my reading comprehension is just fine. In the first post above, you say: "we should not let the cruise lines off the hook with this issue.". Then you lay out two options to force the cruise line to change their policies on this issue. You were indeed advocating using one or both of these options.

 

Both of these options would adversely affect the crew. Boycotting the cruise lines will mean fewer cruises, less crew, and lower wages, this impacting the crew. Removing tips also hurts the crew.

 

 

It appears you're trying to say that the cruise line has a contract to pay the crew in the gratuity pool a certain amount that includes their regular wages and their projected gratuities and that the cruise lines are trying to get their customers to pay a portion of those moneys paid the crew. Well, so what? Ulimately, the costs of operating the ship are paid by the passengers. Why does it matter whether the crew is paid a wage or a wage plus a gratuity? As long as the crew and the line are happy, it's really not the passengers responsibility.

[anniegb]

Go do your own search on the subject. There have been many previous discussions on this subject. Some of which have included some documentation. Easy enough to search on line. National tax laws are pretty easy to find. Especially the countries that provide a substantial number of crew members.

 

Under the old system the people providing service behind the scenes did not get compensated. Only those with direct contact. Also depending upon the passenger mix the numbers could very wildly. The pool system provides a more balanced, consistent system.

 

Last time I looked a short term account holding such funds prior to distribution would not generate enough revenue to even be considered to be material. No advantage to the company not to distribute it in a timely fashion such as the normal payroll cycle.

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond - appreciated.

 

Annie

[SantaFeFan]

Of course they will but going on lead price before doing any research a cruise seems a much cheaper option than it actually is. I bet it leads to a lot of disappointment for those who then find they can't actually afford the trip after all.

 

No different than any purchase they make from virtually any vendor:

 

Buy a car, thry pay additional tax and license fees, plus transportation costs to the dealer.

 

Buy a washing machine, they pay additional taxes and possible delivery fees and disposal fees for the old machine.

 

Buy a television and pay additional taxes and electronic recycling fees.

 

In other words, buy virtually anything and there will be so-called "hidden fees" that aren't listed on the sales flyer, brochure, TV ad, shelf label, etc. A person would have to be living under a rock to not understand the concept of additional costs when purchasing something. And I rather doubt that if they were living under a rock, they would even know about cruising in the first place. :p

Edited August 14, 2017 by SantaFeFan

[anniegb]

This is what ANTSP does. Comes in and disrupts threads on purpose.

Actually made a post saying that they like to post non truths to wind everyone up.

 

I thought ANTSP started this thread??

 

Interesting thread - you learn something new every day.

 

However like certain topics, very few change their views.

 

Annie

[BunnieBear]

No different than any purchase they make from virtually any vendor:

 

Buy a car, you pay additional tax and license fees, plus transportation costs to the dealer.

 

Buy a washing machine, they pay additional taxes and possible delivery fees and disposal fees for the old machine.

 

Buy a television and pay additional taxes and electronic recycling fees.

 

In other words, buy virtually anything and there will be so-called "hidden fees" that aren't listed on the sales flyer, brochure, TV ad, etc. A person would have to be living under a rock to not understand the concept of additional costs when purchasing something.

Generally if you book an all-inclusive hotel holiday here you pay what is advertised - unless you want to take additional luggage. The examples you give are not competing holiday options. This is my point.

 

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[Colo Cruiser]

I thought ANTSP started this thread??

 

Interesting thread - you learn something new every day.

 

However like certain topics, very few change their views.

 

Annie

 

 

Why do you think it was started? ;)

[anniegb]

No different than any purchase they make from virtually any vendor:

 

Buy a car, you pay additional tax and license fees, plus transportation costs to the dealer.

 

Buy a washing machine, they pay additional taxes and possible delivery fees and disposal fees for the old machine.

 

Buy a television and pay additional taxes and electronic recycling fees.

 

In other words, buy virtually anything and there will be so-called "hidden fees" that aren't listed on the sales flyer, brochure, TV ad, etc. A person would have to be living under a rock to not understand the concept of additional costs when purchasing something.

 

Therein lies another cultural difference.

 

When I purchase a household item in the UK, the price displayed is the price I pay inclusive of taxes, delivery costs etc.

 

'Hidden Fees' is against the law.

 

That is why I hate shopping in USA, the price displayed is NEVER the price you pay - I know another cultural difference.

 

Annie

[SantaFeFan]

Generally if you book an all-inclusive hotel holiday here you pay what is advertised - unless you want to take additional luggage. The examples you give are not competing holiday options. This is my point.

 

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There is your fatal flaw. We are talking about cruise vacations. No cruise line that I know of, other than the luxury lines, claim to be all inclusive. They all clearly explain on their websites and sales brochures what is and is not included in the cruise fare. Again, you are assuming that a person is either too stupid to read, or living under a rock.

 

Besides, every all-inclusive land based resort that I have ever researched clearly detailed what was not included in the base cost, including taxes and other non-resort fees, plus excursions, car rentals to explore, etc. None are 100% all-inclusive. You will always have to pay something over and above the cost they quote, usually depending on what your interests are and what you want to do.

[anniegb]

There is your fatal flaw. No cruise line that I know of, other than the luxury lines, claim to be all inclusive. They all clearly explain on their websites and sales brochures what is and is not included in the cruise fare. Again, you are assuming that a person is either too stupid to read, or living under a rock.

 

NCL in the UK brands itself as all inclusive.

 

Annie

[SantaFeFan]

Therein lies another cultural difference.

 

When I purchase a household item in the UK, the price displayed is the price I pay inclusive of taxes, delivery costs etc.

 

'Hidden Fees' is against the law.

 

That is why I hate shopping in USA, the price displayed is NEVER the price you pay - I know another cultural difference.

 

Annie

 

And that is why everything in the UK is more expensive than here in the states. I have traveled to your wonderful country many times, and I always expect to spend more for anything than I would here at home. However, since I am in your country, unlike you, I don't "HATE" doing anything there. I am a visitor in your country, which graciously allows me to visit, and I go with the flow and do the "while in Rome" thing, all without complaining endlessly about it, or hating having to do something. I consider myself a smart person. Why would I go somewhere where I hate dong things? :o

 

NCL in the UK brands itself as all inclusive.

 

Annie

 

It's a sales gimmick to fool the gullible. Are you telling me that you have been duped?

[BunnieBear]

There is your fatal flaw. We are talking about cruise vacations. No cruise line that I know of, other than the luxury lines, claim to be all inclusive. They all clearly explain on their websites and sales brochures what is and is not included in the cruise fare. Again, you are assuming that a person is either too stupid to read, or living under a rock.

 

Besides, every all-inclusive land based resort that I have ever researched clearly detailed what was not included in the base cost, including taxes and other non-resort fees, plus excursions, car rentals to explore, etc. None are 100% all-inclusive. You will always have to pay something over and above the cost they quote, usually depending on what your interests are and what you want to do.

You're really not getting the point I'm making. I could have put self-catering, the point is the same, the cost is usually as advertised - not "oh, and a little bit more because we don't properly pay our staff"

 

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[antsp]

This is what ANTSP does. Comes in and disrupts threads on purpose.

Actually made a post saying that they like to post non truths to wind everyone up.

I've copied and pasted from Princess website, and you still don't believe it. Do you not believe Princess them selves

[antsp]

This is what ANTSP does. Comes in and disrupts threads on purpose.

Actually made a post saying that they like to post non truths to wind everyone up.

Please show me this post. A non truth from you

[BunnieBear]

We went to Greece all-inclusive earlier this year and could have spent nothing over and above the holiday price had we wished.

 

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[AZbeachboy]

No, my reading comprehension is just fine. In the first post above, you say: "we should not let the cruise lines off the hook with this issue.". Then you lay out two options to force the cruise line to change their policies on this issue. You were indeed advocating using one or both of these options.

 

Both of these options would adversely affect the crew. Boycotting the cruise lines will mean fewer cruises, less crew, and lower wages, this impacting the crew. Removing tips also hurts the crew.

 

 

It appears you're trying to say that the cruise line has a contract to pay the crew in the gratuity pool a certain amount that includes their regular wages and their projected gratuities and that the cruise lines are trying to get their customers to pay a portion of those moneys paid the crew. Well, so what? Ulimately, the costs of operating the ship are paid by the passengers. Why does it matter whether the crew is paid a wage or a wage plus a gratuity? As long as the crew and the line are happy, it's really not the passengers responsibility.

 

I didn't ad the third option which was to not do anything different. My purpose in posting was, what can be done to make the lines more responsible. That is why I gave options. Did I advocate either one. NO.

 

I for one would like to see fares go up. We are paying the same thing as we did 15 years ago. So, we have lost services and quality. Plus now we are being nickel/dimed to death. The trend is to all inclusive where grats are paid as part of the fare or charge at a hotel.

 

As far as affecting the crew, I said that. It would force the lines to up the ante or lose qualified workers. Right now the lines and crews are playing poker with us, trying to hedge their bet.

[SantaFeFan]

We went to Greece all-inclusive earlier this year and could have spent nothing over and above the holiday price had we wished.

 

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And, if you purchase a promotional package from the cruise line that included pre-paid gratuities, you would be able to do the same. So what is your point? Just wait for one of those promotions and then you can be as happy as a bee in honey on your next cruise and not spend a single penny more. Or, book on a luxury all-inclusive cruise line instead. (Oh wait, then you would complain about the high prices they charge for that all-inclusive environment - never mind).

 

When you choose to go with a lower price cruise line, don't complain that you don't get the same amenities as if you booked with an expensive luxury all-inclusive line. It was your choice. Take responsibility for it instead of complaining about the additional costs you didn't want to pay for on that luxury line.

 

Absolutely amazing the lengths people will go to rationalize their poor judgement. :rolleyes:

[BunnieBear]

And, if you purchase a promotional package from the cruise line that included pre-paid gratuities, you would be able to do the same. So what is your point? Just wait for one of those promotions and then you can be as happy as a bee in honey on your next cruise and not spend a single penny more. Or, book on a luxury all-inclusive cruise line instead. (Oh wait, then you would complain about the high prices they charge for that all-inclusive environment - never mind).

 

When you choose to go with a lower price cruise line, don't complain that you don't get the same amenities as if you booked with an expensive luxury all-inclusive line. It was your choice. Take responsibility for it instead of complaining about the additional costs you didn't want to pay for on that luxury line. :rolleyes:

I started my first post saying I was happy to pay what's due, I don't know what's given you the impression I wasn't. I just want clear straight forward pricing.

 

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[SantaFeFan]

......I for one would like to see fares go up. We are paying the same thing as we did 15 years ago. So, we have lost services and quality. Plus now we are being nickel/dimed to death. The trend is to all inclusive where grats are paid as part of the fare or charge at a hotel. .....

 

Then stay away from the mainstream cruise lines and book only with the luxury lines. You will then have everything you want: higher fares; no nickle and diming; higher service levels; better quality; and of course, no gratuities! You have all the power to get what you want - at a price, of course. And that higher PRICE is probably why you instead cruise with lower priced lines and complain about how you are being taken advantage of. :rolleyes:

[RDC1]

Generally if you book an all-inclusive hotel holiday here you pay what is advertised - unless you want to take additional luggage. The examples you give are not competing holiday options. This is my point.

 

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Depending upon how and where you book it, hotels may or may not include taxes in their advertised rate. They also may or may not include resort fees. Hotels usually do not indicate the charge for tips in the dining establishments on their premises. They often do not include the fees for parking.

 

Don't even get started on all of the hidden airline fees.

 

All inclusive resorts might be one of the few areas in the travel industry that does not have hidden fees.

[SantaFeFan]

I started my first post saying I was happy to pay what's due, I don't know what's given you the impression I wasn't. I just want clear straight forward pricing.

 

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Then why are you complaining about gratuities? :confused:

 

Sorry if I misunderstood your position, but I am confused about you comments criticizing gratuities. Or is it someone else I am thinking of. Too many posts. Getting confusing keeping track of all of them. ;p

[BunnieBear]

Therein lies another cultural difference.

 

When I purchase a household item in the UK, the price displayed is the price I pay inclusive of taxes, delivery costs etc.

 

'Hidden Fees' is against the law.

 

That is why I hate shopping in USA, the price displayed is NEVER the price you pay - I know another cultural difference.

 

Annie

It is a strange system not knowing the cost until it's rung up at the till.

 

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[BunnieBear]

Then why are you complaining about gratuities? Sorry if I misunderstood your position, but I am confused about you comments criticizing gratuities. :confused::confused:

I'm not. My complaint is they're not added to the purchase price advertised.

 

 

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[anniegb]

And that is why everything in the UK is more expensive than here in the states. I have traveled to your wonderful country many times, and I always expect to spend more for anything than I would here at home. However, since I am in your country, unlike you, I don't "HATE" doing anything there. I am a visitor in your country, which graciously allows me to visit, and I go with the flow and do the "while in Rome" thing, all without complaining endlessly about it, or hating having to do something. I consider myself a smart person. Why would I go somewhere where I hate dong things? :o

 

 

 

It's a sales gimmick to fool the gullible. Are you telling me that you have been duped?

 

Is everything cheaper in the States? Some things are. I thought grocery store prices were relatively expensive. OTC medicines? Apartment Rental? costs in the UK like the USA can vary by location.

 

For the record, I have visited USA often but I hate that pricing in stores is not the price you pay.

 

I assume your comment re NCL was rhetorical?

 

Annie

[RDC1]

Therein lies another cultural difference.

 

When I purchase a household item in the UK, the price displayed is the price I pay inclusive of taxes, delivery costs etc.

 

'Hidden Fees' is against the law.

 

That is why I hate shopping in USA, the price displayed is NEVER the price you pay - I know another cultural difference.

 

Annie

 

From what I recall the requirement to include taxes in the prices in the UK and for that matter in the EU largely came about due to the VAT and its fairly substantial size (starting sometime in the 70s about the same time the UK joined the EU and the VAT system started). The government has a clear reason not to have the VAT show up as a separate line item in the bill but instead to have the consumer see only the final price. Far less visibility to the impact of VAT on consumer prices by having it included.

 

I suspect if the US ever went the national VAT route you would probably see a requirement for taxes to be included as well.

[anniegb]

I started my first post saying I was happy to pay what's due, I don't know what's given you the impression I wasn't. I just want clear straight forward pricing.

 

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That word Transparency again :evilsmile:

 

I think it is simply cultural.

 

Annie