UK cruises, new gratuities

[anniegb]

So what is the difference? You pay the standard fare and gratuities extra, or pay the increased fare with the gratuities included. It all amounts to the same cost in the end. Still can't for the life of me understand why certain cultures can't figure out this tiny, but important, detail. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

In case you can't figure it out on your own, when you are on a cruise ship, you aren't in Europe any more. You are in a community that has it's own way of doing things. Leave your "that is not how it is done in my country" BS at home where it belongs. You aren't there, so your cultural idiosyncrasies aren't relevant.

 

 

 

The crew is not "underpaid" by their employer. The employees sign their contract knowing full well what their income will be from the cruise lines. And they are fine with that, or they would not be voluntarily signing up. The people who are underpaying the employees are the selfish ones who remove the tips so they can keep that money for themselves. Pure and simple. It's those selfish passengers who stiff the crew, not the cruise lines. And no amount of spinning the truth will change that.

 

Do your comments re Europe apply when a cruise line for commercial reasons decides to send a ship to Europe. The expression when in Rome comes to mind.

 

The guest has issued no contract of employment to the crew therefore how can they be accused of underpaying the 'employees' ?

 

TBH I take all stories re tipping/low crew salaries with a huge pinch of salt. I worked in the maritime industry for decades.

 

Enjoy your cruises folks.

 

Annie

[AZbeachboy]

Solution is not to book Princess or any other American line if you do not agree with their policies. There are lots of other cruise lines out there.

 

Even though most have a policy to add the funds to your account, it is also policy to allow one to remove them as well.

[PTMary]

I find it amazing how far some people will stretch logic, make excuses, dig for loopholes, rationalize their beliefs, and borderline deceive themselves to justify stiffing the hardworking crew that has made their cruise enjoyable. Is saving that money so important to you that you are willing to sell your soul to the devil to keep it in your greedy hands? Has generosity and compassion become obsolete in your hearts? Deplorable. :rolleyes:

[AZbeachboy]

Spinning it to fit your agenda. Obviously there is nothing that will change your mind so if you choose to remove the auto gratuity the crew will suffer because of you.

I find this way of thinking reprehensible.

 

Colo Cruiser, I have always appreciated you thoughts about things. Here the poster makes a point that I have previously and needs to be discussed. We fight and argue with each other about tips, which would be appreciate if not regulated; gratuities, for which we may not have an attitude of gratitude; or service charges. But we never talk about the corporations which have set up that structure. Why do we allow them to get away paying low wages and yet beat each other over the head. It is not right. They need to accept some of the criticism.

[PrincessLuver]

I find it amazing how far some people will stretch logic, make excuses, dig for loopholes, rationalize their beliefs, and borderline deceive themselves to justify stiffing the hardworking crew that has made their cruise enjoyable. Is saving that money so important to you that you are willing to sell your soul to the devil to keep it in your greedy hands? Has generosity and compassion become obsolete in your hearts? Deplorable. :rolleyes:

 

Tipping is irrational, outdated, ineffective, confusing, prone to abuse and sometimes discriminatory.

 

Americans have stuck with tipping for years because all parties thought it worked in their favor. Servers, especially in restaurants from the mid- to high-priced, made good money, much of it in cash, and much of that unreported on tax returns. Owners saved on labor costs and taxes. And customers generally believed that tips brought better service. Now that US tax laws have changed many of these assumptions are no longer valid.

 

Princess just needs to pay higher wages and quit trying to use the auto gratuity as a wage that it does not pay. Also, I bet none of those gratuities are taxed by the US because the ships are registered in other countries besides the US even though people imply that it is an American company and use the "So when in Rome logic."

 

People can keep the name calling up but that is not going to keep people from deciding what is best for them on this matter. We have sailed on several Princess cruises where the gratuities were already supposedly paid....no way of knowing if Princess did that or not?? :cool:

[rdsqrl]

. . . Also, I bet none of those gratuities are taxed by the US because the ships are registered in other countries besides the US . .

The recipients of the gratuities are not U.S. citizens. Whom do you think should be paying taxes and why? Bizarre comment.

[Colo Cruiser]

Colo Cruiser, I have always appreciated you thoughts about things. Here the poster makes a point that I have previously and needs to be discussed. We fight and argue with each other about tips, which would be appreciate if not regulated; gratuities, for which we may not have an attitude of gratitude; or service charges. But we never talk about the corporations which have set up that structure. Why do we allow them to get away paying low wages and yet beat each other over the head. It is not right. They need to accept some of the criticism.

 

 

Thanks AZBB...

I refer back to post #221 in the 3rd posted comment by Santa Fe Fan.

Who decides that the wages are low? The ones that are bitching/penny pinching about paying the auto gratuity? A little self serving there.

The crew are not forced to sign their contracts. Did you ever think that the majority might be satisfied with the job and wages?

Like I said the program that's in place NOW is what it is. If someone wants to take it upon themselves to fight it through proper channels then so be it. However at the moment the crew suffer by those that can afford a cruise but can't afford the tipping that goes along with it. I think the system works well. There is no problem with discussing the corporate side but some think that they can throw the current policy out the window to save a few $$ and come up with every deflection possible to justify their guilt. Punishing the crew is not the way.

[WpgCruise]

We all understand the TIP, Gratuity, Daily Service Charge, call it what you will is how service personnel in the cruise industry are for the most part compensated.

 

To not pay this results in the service people not getting paid for the work they do

 

People with any moral character will not expect nor accept a service without compensating for it.

 

Anyone who deducts the daily gratuity and has any character will clean their own rooms, fetch their own meals from the kitchen, clean up after themselves and not accept any service they haven't paid for.

 

Otherwise you're just a down market cheapskate looking for an excuse to cheat someone out of their income.

[AE_Collector]

The biggest problem as I see it is the use by Princess and the cruise industry of the word Gratuity for this daily service charge. The word Gratuity in many people minds means an extra amount for over the top service, not an automatic charge for a service. This automatically makes people who aren't normally going to tip for service head to the desk to cancel it.

 

To just include it in the cruise price OR tack it on like the port charges would be an improvement but as someone else pointed out, it is a tax regulation thing that causes these problems.

 

I feel that Princess didn't help matters by boosting the auto gratuity twice within a year. Many people jumped on this bandwagon complaining that they didn't begin to get that sort of raise in pay/pension while conveniently forgetting that there hadn't been an increase in gratuities in 5 or 6 years prior.

 

We always have a great relationship with cabin stewards and waiters on cruises but even with the auto gratuities and giving a little extra in cash we still feel a little bad about the level of service we receive versus what we presume they are paid in total for serving us. As much as we always hunt for the best cruise bargain we can find, we would never cut back on what the crew receives on our behalf.

 

AE_Collector

[PrincessLuver]

The recipients of the gratuities are not U.S. citizens. Whom do you think should be paying taxes and why? Bizarre comment.

 

Not a bizarre comment......many of the gratuity moralists on CC state that Princess is an American corporation and that non US citizens on Princess just need to "when in Rome do as..." If it is an American corporation then it is practicing tax evasion by this gratuity non sense.....people have the choice to tip or not to tip according to Princess and they are no more or less then others on a Princess ship....I can tell that just because people supposedly tip on CC does not make them righteous people because their name calling, moral tone and insults come off as classless, cheap, low life and ignorant to name a few.....give it a rest and double your tips next time to make up for the ones who choose not too...........:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[SantaFeFan]

Not a bizarre comment......many of the gratuity moralists on CC state that Princess is an American corporation and that non US citizens on Princess just need to "when in Rome do as..." If it is an American corporation then it is practicing tax evasion by this gratuity non sense.....people have the choice to tip or not to tip according to Princess and they are no more or less then others on a Princess ship....I can tell that just because people supposedly tip on CC does not make them righteous people because their name calling, moral tone and insults come off as classless, cheap, low life and ignorant to name a few.....give it a rest and double your tips next time to make up for the ones who choose not too...........:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Amusing rant. :')

[cactusrose]

Oh how I hate to get involved in this discussion but I do want to point out one thing to those that are in favor of raising the cruise fare and doing away with gratuities. Gratuities are not taxed because they are being paid to people from different countries with different tax laws. However, the cruise fare is taxed because Princess headquarters is in the US. So if the fare is increased it will go up more than the amount of the gratuities in order to cover the tax. It will go up even more because now the crew is being paid on US payrolls so their salaries will also be taxed and the cruise line will have to raise their salaries enough to cover those taxes. So lets not shoot ourselves in the foot just because your culture doesn't believe in tipping. One more thing to think about. The crew pays their agents based on their salaries so they will have to pay them more too. So how much more are you willing to pay in cruise fare to cover all this additional expense just to get rid of gratuities?

[sloopsailor]

Not a bizarre comment......many of the gratuity moralists on CC state that Princess is an American corporation and that non US citizens on Princess just need to "when in Rome do as..." If it is an American corporation then it is practicing tax evasion by this gratuity non sense.....people have the choice to tip or not to tip according to Princess and they are no more or less then others on a Princess ship....I can tell that just because people supposedly tip on CC does not make them righteous people because their name calling, moral tone and insults come off as classless, cheap, low life and ignorant to name a few.....give it a rest and double your tips next time to make up for the ones who choose not too...........:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

I've never been fond of subsidizing cheapskates. I am not about to start now in spite of you lecturing us to do things your way. If this discussion is too contrary for your tastes, then just go away. Shoo! Scamper away to a place where people do what they want instead of what is morally right. You will be happier there. :mad:

Edited August 14, 2017 by sloopsailor

[Britcruzer15]

I get the American culture of tipping (and when in the US comply with this), I am neither a cheapskate (show me someone who does not like a deal!) nor morally bereft. But in my opinion the system when you are operating outside of the US with mostly European passengers, needs to change.

 

A few years ago the (mostly Indian) staff on P&O staged a walk off in protest at remuneration levels (due to low levels of tipping), the company were forced to make concessions to their contracts to boost their incomes. change is possible

 

how many of you on here who are calling me out, are Carnival shareholders? - you are the ones who can effect change, if you want it.

 

I love a decent debate, I value the opinions of others, even when they are not the same as mine.

[caribill]

all other costs are included in the the cruise fare, why not this one, just make it mandatory and not call it something it is not.

 

You mean costs are included like soda, juice in the afternoon, shore excursions, fresh brewed coffee, laundry, etc.?

[Britcruzer15]

You mean costs are included like soda, juice in the afternoon, shore excursions, fresh brewed coffee, laundry, etc.?

you forgot dinner with the captain, and free back rubs ;p

[RocketMan275]

Oh how I hate to get involved in this discussion but I do want to point out one thing to those that are in favor of raising the cruise fare and doing away with gratuities. Gratuities are not taxed because they are being paid to people from different countries with different tax laws. However, the cruise fare is taxed because Princess headquarters is in the US. So if the fare is increased it will go up more than the amount of the gratuities in order to cover the tax. It will go up even more because now the crew is being paid on US payrolls so their salaries will also be taxed and the cruise line will have to raise their salaries enough to cover those taxes. So lets not shoot ourselves in the foot just because your culture doesn't believe in tipping. One more thing to think about. The crew pays their agents based on their salaries so they will have to pay them more too. So how much more are you willing to pay in cruise fare to cover all this additional expense just to get rid of gratuities?

 

I don't think those who want the gratuities included in the cruise fare want to see the cruise fare increased, they want the gratuities included at no extra charge.

[anniegb]

Oh how I hate to get involved in this discussion but I do want to point out one thing to those that are in favor of raising the cruise fare and doing away with gratuities. Gratuities are not taxed because they are being paid to people from different countries with different tax laws. However, the cruise fare is taxed because Princess headquarters is in the US. So if the fare is increased it will go up more than the amount of the gratuities in order to cover the tax. It will go up even more because now the crew is being paid on US payrolls so their salaries will also be taxed and the cruise line will have to raise their salaries enough to cover those taxes. So lets not shoot ourselves in the foot just because your culture doesn't believe in tipping. One more thing to think about. The crew pays their agents based on their salaries so they will have to pay them more too. So how much more are you willing to pay in cruise fare to cover all this additional expense just to get rid of gratuities?

 

US companies do employ mariners without incurring payroll taxes.

 

If the appropriate DTAs are in place, the crew could be exempt from US taxation.

 

Just asking because I am trying to understand, what additional US taxation might be incurred by the vendor and consumer if the cruise fare is increased by the amount of gratuities.

 

Thinking of another US cruise line that includes gratuities in the ticket price, like Azamara, I ask how much their tax bill is uplifted ??

 

JMO, I think the mainstream cruise lines like to exclude gratuities from the ticket price to make the ticket price more attractive.

 

Annie

[majortom10]

I've never been fond of subsidizing cheapskates. I am not about to start now in spite of you lecturing us to do things your way. If this discussion is too contrary for your tastes, then just go away. Shoo! Scamper away to a place where people do what they want instead of what is morally right. You will be happier there. :mad:

 

So when you eat out at a restaurant at home do you go round the restaurant and ask every diner what "tips" they are going to pay just to make sure you dont pay more and subsidising the "cheapskates" I dont think so. What anyone pays is a personal thing no matter what country they come from and nothing to do with anyone else. I am fed up of "if you cannot afford the tips you knew about when booking you should cruise with somebody else" "it is an American culture and you are on an American ship so do as in Rome" and the most stupidest comment made by people who follow like sheep is "stiffing the crew".

[caber]

So when you eat out at a restaurant at home do you go round the restaurant and ask every diner what "tips" they are going to pay just to make sure you dont pay more and subsidising the "cheapskates" I dont think so. What anyone pays is a personal thing no matter what country they come from and nothing to do with anyone else. I am fed up of "if you cannot afford the tips you knew about when booking you should cruise with somebody else" "it is an American culture and you are on an American ship so do as in Rome" and the most stupidest comment made by people who follow like sheep is "stiffing the crew".

 

Well said. ;p

[swedish weave]

US companies do employ mariners without incurring payroll taxes.

 

If the appropriate DTAs are in place, the crew could be exempt from US taxation.

 

Just asking because I am trying to understand, what additional US taxation might be incurred by the vendor and consumer if the cruise fare is increased by the amount of gratuities.

 

Thinking of another US cruise line that includes gratuities in the ticket price, like Azamara, I ask how much their tax bill is uplifted ??

 

JMO, I think the mainstream cruise lines like to exclude gratuities from the ticket price to make the ticket price more attractive.

 

Annie

 

Your questions are valid, and deserve answers

 

The cruise lines dont make gratuities mandatory or part of the fare because of they did, they would be required to account for the distribution of the funds.

 

The cruise lines that include gratuities as booking bonuses are an example of the lack of accountability for handling of these funds.

 

Regarding the pay for crew members, here are some numbers that may add some base to this discussion.

 

On a recent cruise on another line, we were charged 13.50 per day per person, and our two stewards had 31 rooms to service. I was told the company distributes 40 percent of the grats to housekeeping.

 

Take these numbers and you will see that the stewards are very well paid when compared to the same work in other venues.

 

Do the stewards actually make over 5000 dollars per months in tips, or is the cruise line keeping some of it?

Edited August 14, 2017 by swedish weave

[Britcruzer15]

this thread currently running on the P&O board

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2529808&page=3

[anniegb]

Your questions are valid, and deserve answers

 

The cruise lines dont make gratuities mandatory or part of the fare because of they did, they would be required to account for the distribution of the funds.

 

The cruise lines that include gratuities as booking bonuses are an example of the lack of accountability for handling of these funds.

 

Regarding the pay for crew members, here are some numbers that may add some base to this discussion.

 

On a recent cruise on another line, we were charged 13.50 per day per person, and our two stewards had 31 rooms to service. I was told the company distributes 40 percent of the grats to housekeeping.

 

Take these numbers and you will see that the stewards are very well paid when compared to the same work in other venues.

 

Do the stewards actually make over 5000 dollars per months in tips, or is the cruise line keeping some of it?

 

Thanks but why?

 

Increased ticket price and increased staff costs - simple.

 

Slightly off topic, I assume if they are not required to report gratuities under US accounting practices currently, where do they hold the money and how does the passenger know it is distributed? What happens to the interest accrued on the account?

 

That word transparency again.

 

Annie

[RocketMan275]

So when you eat out at a restaurant at home do you go round the restaurant and ask every diner what "tips" they are going to pay just to make sure you dont pay more and subsidising the "cheapskates" I dont think so. What anyone pays is a personal thing no matter what country they come from and nothing to do with anyone else. I am fed up of "if you cannot afford the tips you knew about when booking you should cruise with somebody else" "it is an American culture and you are on an American ship so do as in Rome" and the most stupidest comment made by people who follow like sheep is "stiffing the crew".

If it's not "stiffing the crew", then what is it?

[PrincessLuver]

I've never been fond of subsidizing cheapskates. I am not about to start now in spite of you lecturing us to do things your way. If this discussion is too contrary for your tastes, then just go away. Shoo! Scamper away to a place where people do what they want instead of what is morally right. You will be happier there. :mad:

 

You are the one who needs to take some lessons in morality........you are subsidizing no one so quit thinking you are SO IMPORTANT joker.......:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: