Prepaid gratuities/service charge

[Ergates The Ant]

I was watching a British TA on YouTube reviewing Fred Olsen Lines and he mentioned that while they are a Norwegian-based company (meaning they are from the country of Norway), they are decidedly British with a vast majority of the passengers from the UK. In his list of "things not included" were the gratuities that are added automatically to your bill.

 

WAIT! A cruise line that caters to Brits that has gratuities added to the bill? What about "I come from a non-tipping culture". Evidently Fred Olsen Lines is able to fill up its ships with Brits who pay the grats, while American lines hear the excuse "we're not from a tipping culture".

 

Last time I checked this city is in England: Tipping in London

And this UK guide to tipping looks pretty much like our standards here: TripAdvisor UK Tipping Guide

 

There is a cultural difference in that first one that is interesting. Let's see if any one else sees the common refrain from the cheap-skates who say they won't pay the automatic gratuities. Disclaimer: only half of the people who don't pay gratuities are low down, rotten cheap-skates, and the rest are wonderful generous people, and I of course consider everyone here to be in the latter group.

 

The tipping in London section you refer to calls itself an Official Guide, but is sponsored by tourism companies, and much of the information is incorrect. The Tripadvisor advice is much more accurate, and reflects common practice. Yes, London is different, lots more visitors and tourists from abroad, and less British culture, but the Tripadvisor section repeats one key fact, that in the UK, tips are not part of service staff wages, but an untaxed thank you. Because they are untaxed, they are worth far more than they would be as part of wages.

In the US, I tip 15 to 20%, because I understand that service staff are not paid properly. In the UK, I might tip up to 10% in a sit down restaurant, if I have had very good service that enhanced my evening above and beyond what I have already paid for and is included within the cost of the meal.

I round up a taxi fare to the nearest pound or one pound fifty, I would give a pound or two if I was helped loading or unloading bags. In the US, I carry dollar bills and tip porters, taxi drivers, etc, because that is the practice there.

On a cruise ship, where possible, I pay the gratuity before I board, because I have learned, mainly through CC boards, that the cruise lines 'stiff' their service staff by not paying proper wages. On my next cruise, we have paid £3000 for a balcony, plus £136 or so, for the prepaid gratuity, a very small proportion of the total fare. I would happily pay twice that included in the fare, if I knew that the staff were being paid properly and that I wasn't being expected to collude in tax evading tactics to save a few pounds.

Cruise lines may operate out of the UK, but are not registered here, which allows them to operate practices which Brits ( and Aussies and Kiwis) find uncomfortable, and which I personally find insulting to the hard working service staff on board.

[grapau27]

I live in the north east of England and people from London think we all wear cloth caps and keep whippets up here

This is a common misconception as is tipping practice.

I know several restaurant managers who confirm English people leave plenty of tips.

 

43 cruises and counting.

[phoenix1181]

You are making a personal choice to pay the gratuities.

 

Yes, giving any staff members a gratuity is a personal choice and it's one I make frequently when I cruise. The Daily Service Charge has no bearing on those gratuities...........

[NLH Arizona]

When I shop at a retail store and get gas from a gas station, I don't tip those people & I'm not about to start a bad practice.

Oh for goodness sake, the cruise lines have had a different business model than land businesses for as long as I can remember and I've done over 45 cruises. I think we all understand that you are not going to pay the DSC, but please don't try to convince folks that a cruise line's business model equates to in any way shape or form a land based retail store, gas station, etc., because they are two different business models.

[grapau27]

Yes, giving any staff members a gratuity is a personal choice and it's one I make frequently when I cruise. The Daily Service Charge has no bearing on those gratuities...........

Well said, when we know crew appreciate tips and they give excellent service i am happy to give extra tips on top of my prepaid or autogratuities.

 

43 cruises and counting.

[grapau27]

Yes, giving any staff members a gratuity is a personal choice and it's one I make frequently when I cruise. The Daily Service Charge has no bearing on those gratuities...........

Well said, when we know crew appreciate tips and they give excellent service i am happy to give extra tips on top of my prepaid or autogratuities.

Yes, giving any staff members a gratuity is a personal choice and it's one I make frequently when I cruise. The Daily Service Charge has no bearing on those gratuities...........

 

 

43 cruises and counting.

[NLH Arizona]

After what you have said one wonders what will happen with NCL going all inclusive in Europe.

 

43 cruises and counting.

I think some have the strange idea that it is wrong to pay the DSC, but have no issue if the same amount is rolled into their cruise fare. At least with the DSC, you have an option if the service is really, really bad, but with it being added to the cruise fare, you don't.

[phoenix1181]

I have one last thing to say & then I'm done here..............

 

I'm really glad MagicCat7 & I aren't on the same cruise!

[Ergates The Ant]

How about this idea? Include the service charge in the cruise fare. If the service on the ship is bad, take this up with the senior staff on board and demand some OBC or a part refund in compensation from the cruise line for not having properly monitored standards, having recruited substandard service staff, or having overloaded their workload so they cannot do an adequate job.

When I am on a cruise, I am on vacation. I resent paying my fare in such a way that I am being expected to monitor the standard of service I am being provided with. My contract is with the cruise line, I don't have any contract with the waiter or the cabin steward!

I really cannot understand why anyone would be keen to pay the service charge separately in order to ensure 'choice' or 'control' and then, in the next breath, insist that they would never actually remove the service charge as this would constitute 'stiffing' the crew?

[grapau27]

How about this idea? Include the service charge in the cruise fare. If the service on the ship is bad, take this up with the senior staff on board and demand some OBC or a part refund in compensation from the cruise line for not having properly monitored standards, having recruited substandard service staff, or having overloaded their workload so they cannot do an adequate job.

When I am on a cruise, I am on vacation. I resent paying my fare in such a way that I am being expected to monitor the standard of service I am being provided with. My contract is with the cruise line, I don't have any contract with the waiter or the cabin steward!

I really cannot understand why anyone would be keen to pay the service charge separately in order to ensure 'choice' or 'control' and then, in the next breath, insist that they would never actually remove the service charge as this would constitute 'stiffing' the crew?

I think they already have when they announced all NCL cruises were now all inclusive.

 

43 cruises and counting.

[Ergates The Ant]

I think they already have when they announced all NCL cruises were now all inclusive.

 

43 cruises and counting.

Yes, only from the UK, though. Just done a price check for another cruise later in the year, and it seems no dearer than before, given the usual fluctuation in prices.

Excellent move, shame I booked before the AI came in, but it will certainly positively influence my future cruise line choices. Mind you, this will be my first NCL cruise, I have already ruled out the Away class ships because of reports of smoke escape from the casino.

[norhel]

Yes, only from the UK, though.

All inclusive is also offered on the Norwegian edition of NCL.

[grapau27]

All inclusive is also offered on the Norwegian edition of NCL.

The headlines seemed to indicate it was fleetwide.

 

43 cruises and counting.

[samshltn]

Being British, and not accustomed to a tipping culture, we just pre-pay the tips and be done with it. Its easier for us than trying to work out who to tip and who not to. We pay them when we make the booking, and at the end of the cruise there's no bill. We just walk off. To us, this is the simplest way to do it.

 

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[grapau27]

Being British, and not accustomed to a tipping culture, we just pre-pay the tips and be done with it. Its easier for us than trying to work out who to tip and who not to. We pay them when we make the booking, and at the end of the cruise there's no bill. We just walk off. To us, this is the simplest way to do it.

 

Sent from my LG-H815 using Forums mobile app

That's the way to do it plus if anyone gives excellent service you can hand them a little extra.

 

43 cruises and counting.

[steamboats]

NCL started with AI for Germany, Austria and Switzerland last year. Earlier this year they added more countries like Luxemburg, Belgium, Netherlands and more. Just recently they announced that they added UK.

 

I don´t think they´ve gone worldwide with all inclusive as this was a news on CC UK. Can´t find it anymore.

 

steamboats

[njhorseman]

I think they already have when they announced all NCL cruises were now all inclusive.

 

43 cruises and counting.

 

All inclusive cruising only applies to bookings from the UK and many countries continental Europe. It doesn't apply to customers from North America:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=7710

[fshagan]

For the record, there is no way on earth that Fred Olsen is the most popular cruise line for Brits! That accolade probably belongs to P&O cruises, whose tipping policy is similar in operation and amount paid as Fred Olsen.

 

Thanks! I didn't think P&O would be a suitable comparison because they are owned by Carnival, but I guess the point is the same one: if Brits are from a "non-tipping culture" why do these companies that cater to the UK passenger impose the same kind of tipping structure that American lines do?

 

So I think we can dismiss the "tipping culture" excuse out of hand, especially since the official travel guides for London detail how often and how much you should tip in restaurants and taxis.

 

So we're left with either "I want to make sure the crew gets it, so I'll keep it instead" and "Daddy Warbucks owns the cruise lines and I'm gonna' stick it to the man any time I can."

[fshagan]

The tipping in London section you refer to calls itself an Official Guide, but is sponsored by tourism companies, and much of the information is incorrect. The Tripadvisor advice is much more accurate, and reflects common practice. Yes, London is different, lots more visitors and tourists from abroad, and less British culture, but the Tripadvisor section repeats one key fact, that in the UK, tips are not part of service staff wages, but an untaxed thank you. Because they are untaxed, they are worth far more than they would be as part of wages.

 

Thanks for that clarification. I can see how London would be different, because metro cities here in the US are different, and even the people who are tipped are different based on which coast you live on (in the west we don't tip the mailman, grocery bag boy, etc., but that is common in the eastern US).

 

In the US, I tip 15 to 20%, because I understand that service staff are not paid properly. In the UK, I might tip up to 10% in a sit down restaurant, if I have had very good service that enhanced my evening above and beyond what I have already paid for and is included within the cost of the meal.

 

This really depends on the individual state in the US. I read where the UK "livable wage" is calculated as £7.85 outside of London, which equals about $10 US. Guess what servers are paid in California? $10.50 an hour (£8.39). Tips are in addition to that. I think CA has the highest minimum wage, and many states allow restaurants to pay servers much, much less.

 

 

On a cruise ship, where possible, I pay the gratuity before I board, because I have learned, mainly through CC boards, that the cruise lines 'stiff' their service staff by not paying proper wages.

 

I actually think they do pay a living wage, if the self-reported wages are correct on the website glassdoor.com. Because NCL has a ship that follows US minimum wage law I cross referenced these against RCL and the Carnival lines' employees, and NCL seems to be in line, even with the American ship. I posted the annual wages of a Filipino earlier, and how much more they earn as a seafarer (about four times as much). Bartenders and higher positions are earning as much as jet engine mechanics or other well paid blue collar positions, and as much as junior lawyers here in the US (when adjusted).

 

I think the articles you see about horrible wages are from westerners used to wages 4 to 10 times higher who, as we westerners often do, never really think about the alternative for the people who have the job.

[grapau27]

Thanks! I didn't think P&O would be a suitable comparison because they are owned by Carnival, but I guess the point is the same one: if Brits are from a "non-tipping culture" why do these companies that cater to the UK passenger impose the same kind of tipping structure that American lines do?

 

So I think we can dismiss the "tipping culture" excuse out of hand, especially since the official travel guides for London detail how often and how much you should tip in restaurants and taxis.

 

So we're left with either "I want to make sure the crew gets it, so I'll keep it instead" and "Daddy Warbucks owns the cruise lines and I'm gonna' stick it to the man any time I can."

In the UK we have no problem at least i don't of leaving tips and as a regular cruiser i know the drill regarding prepaying tips.

The problem in the UK is that we tip after a service not before and the canny folk of the UK want to experience the service first before tipping.

Thanks! I didn't think P&O would be a suitable comparison because they are owned by Carnival, but I guess the point is the same one: if Brits are from a "non-tipping culture" why do these companies that cater to the UK passenger impose the same kind of tipping structure that American lines do?

 

So I think we can dismiss the "tipping culture" excuse out of hand, especially since the official travel guides for London detail how often and how much you should tip in restaurants and taxis.

 

So we're left with either "I want to make sure the crew gets it, so I'll keep it instead" and "Daddy Warbucks owns the cruise lines and I'm gonna' stick it to the man any time I can."

In the UK we have no problem at least i don't of leaving tips and as a regular cruiser i know the drill regarding prepaying tips.

The problem in the UK is that we tip after a service not before and the canny folk of the UK want to experience the service first before tipping.

 

43 cruises and counting.

[NLH Arizona]

The problem in the UK is that we tip after a service not before and the canny folk of the UK want to experience the service first before tipping.

I don't understand this comment. Unless you pre-pay the DSC, the DSC is not added prior to your cruise or services.

[grapau27]

I don't understand this comment. Unless you pre-pay the DSC, the DSC is not added prior to your cruise or services.

Personally i either pre pay my gratuitys on RC or autopay on NCL P&O snd Princess plus for a 7 night cruise give another $200 tips.

The Brits in my opinion are not against tipping which a lot of Americans think it is the concept of paying a tip before they have had the service that is alien to them.

The Brits are generous as witnessed in the millions of pounds given on save the children,red nose day etc.

 

43 cruises and counting.

[NLH Arizona]

Personally i either pre pay my gratuitys on RC or autopay on NCL P&O snd Princess plus for a 7 night cruise give another $200 tips.

The Brits in my opinion are not against tipping which a lot of Americans think it is the concept of paying a tip before they have had the service that is alien to them.

The Brits are generous as witnessed in the millions of pounds given on save the children,red nose day etc.

 

43 cruises and counting.

But if they don't pre-pay, the DSC is not added until the end of their cruise/service, so I still don't understand that comment. Also, why do they say, they don't pay the DSC because they don't tip back home?

[grapau27]

But if they don't pre-pay, the DSC is not added until the end of their cruise/service, so I still don't understand that comment. Also, why do they say, they don't pay the DSC because they don't tip back home?

I don't know because i always pay mine.I am sure lots of Brits don't tip and probably Americans too its just i wouldn't tar everyone with the same brush because people say one thing then do another.

 

43 cruises and counting.

[NLH Arizona]

I don't know because i always pay mine.I am sure lots of Brits don't tip and probably Americans too its just i wouldn't tar everyone with the same brush because people say one thing then do another.

 

43 cruises and counting.

I'm not tarring anyone, I just didn't understand your comment: The problem in the UK is that we tip after a service not before and the canny folk of the UK want to experience the service first before tipping. and what that has to do with paying or not paying the DSC, since many from all nations don't pre-pay their DSC and pay for it at the end of the cruise after services are rendered. Edited April 17, 2017 by NLH Arizona