Gala nights

[iancal]

The unfortunate thing is that some people seem to think they need an excuse. Why not just say we longer want to dress up so we are not going to do it any more?. How difficult can that be?

 

And why would anyone want to bother questioning or making a judgement on any excuse that may be offered? Why second guess another person's thoughts?

 

From our perspective it is a big MYOB. If someone wants to dress up or dress down it is entirely their business.

[bUU]

That $$$ argument shows its ugly head every time there is a discussion on this issue and I am a firm believer that it is and always will be an argument of convenience behind which people like to hide.

The unfortunate thing is that some people seem to think they need an excuse. Why not just say we longer want to dress up so we are not going to do it any more?. How difficult can that be?

 

And why would anyone want to bother questioning or making a judgement on any excuse that may be offered? Why second guess another person's thoughts?

 

From our perspective it is a big MYOB. If someone wants to dress up or dress down it is entirely their business.

Precisely right. I would bet that the reason why the money argument comes up is that people who maniacally insist that formal attire is the only appropriate attire simply won't take 'no' for an answer from those who intend on complying with the minimum requirement instead. It's not an excuse as much as it is a polite way of saying, "get over yourself; the cruise line determines what's appropriate, not you".

 

 

 

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[zlato]

Lets put this tiresome discussion in some perspective. There was a time when most cruises would schedule special evenings of elegance, glitter, and formal civility. It was an opportunity to momentarily leave the challenges of every day life and briefly enter and participate in a world of gracious dining and civil exchanges of a variety of topics that would not include a sharing of each participant's medical challenges. Apparently, most of the main line cruise companies now cater to a changing standard of expectations which are exemplified in this discussion. Frankly, my wife and I would prefer to continue to experience the old standards and are sad that increasingly fewer people want to or care about a moment of elegance and civility in a world characterized by conflict and lack of respect for different thoughts and opinions. With that said and with the realization that good people with different standards and expectations deserve our respect, please do not tell me that I am overdressed if I wear my tux on "gala nights" and although the comment was addressed to a different participant in this discussion, do not tell me "to get over myself". I already did that when I married my bride 57 years ago!

[bUU]

With that said and with the realization that good people with different standards and expectations deserve our respect, please do not tell me that I am overdressed if I wear my tux on "gala nights"

And reflexively folks would be just as wrong considering people underdressed if they were wearing a collared shirt and slacks on gala nights. Easy peasy.

[taxmantoo]

And reflexively folks would be just as wrong considering people underdressed if they were wearing a collared shirt and slacks on gala nights. Easy peasy.

If you read all previous 28 posts on this thread, you might notice that nobody has even come close to doing that. Maybe on other threads, but not this one :confused:

[bUU]

If you read all previous 28 posts on this thread, you might notice that nobody has even come close to doing that. Maybe on other threads, but not this one :confused:

So you're saying we're all in agreement. Great! (y)

[taxmantoo]

So you're saying we're all in agreement. Great! (y)

Not that there's anything wrong with that ;p

[SetAnOpenCourse]

Some people can get away with casual clothing, they can still look sharp. And others cannot. Just like some guys can get away with the shaved head or a certain hairstyle, and others cannot.

 

And others, well, aesthetics isn't on their radar.

 

 

Formal night compensates for the misjudgement or obliviousness of these folks. It's worth keeping.

 

p.s. Appearance-wise I need all the help I can get. I'll happily tote the sport coat and tie.

Edited August 26, 2017 by SetAnOpenCourse
add p.s.

[bUU]

Formal night compensates for the misjudgement or obliviousness of these folks.

Or reinforces the deficient consideration of other folks. One or the other.

 

p.s. Appearance-wise I need all the help I can get. I'll happily tote the sport coat and tie.

Neither of which is necessary. Personal empowerment dictates that the only person's perspective of your aesthetic appearance that you should care about is your own. The cruise lines set forth a set of requirements; compliance with them is the guests' obligation, to both their host and other guests, in accordance with the expectations of hospitality, not aesthetics. Indeed, it is a violation of the guests' obligation to their host to practice attitudes or behaviors contrary to the host's intention, such in response to whatever grievance you have with regard to people with shaved heads.

 

Respect for what the host has determined to be the minimum requirements is the paramount obligation, far more than any aesthetic concerns.

[SetAnOpenCourse]

Or reinforces the deficient consideration of other folks. One or the other.

 

Neither of which is necessary. Personal empowerment dictates that the only person's perspective of your aesthetic appearance that you should care about is your own. The cruise lines set forth a set of requirements; compliance with them is the guests' obligation, to both their host and other guests, in accordance with the expectations of hospitality, not aesthetics. Indeed, it is a violation of the guests' obligation to their host to practice attitudes or behaviors contrary to the host's intention, such in response to whatever grievance you have with regard to people with shaved heads.

 

Respect for what the host has determined to be the minimum requirements is the paramount obligation, far more than any aesthetic concerns.

 

Generally I do mind my own business, and the only time l ever felt anything even close to a "grievance" was when I noticed a guy walking around the ship with the saggy pants. I guess he met the minimum requirements, and I'd bet what he was wearing was much more expensive than what I was wearing, but aesthetically it was as low as his rear belt loop.

 

Your point is well taken, however. On the bright side, I don't need to read through the requirements, as I'll just be sticking with what they were on my first HAL cruise in 2012.

[MaxThrusters]

Why are guys so hesitant to get a tux? It's a fantastic investment. In commonwealth countries, we call it a "dinner suit"; it's the 'uniform' for dining out in style at sea or ashore. It's actual 'informal wear' for dinner, with 'white tie' being 'formal wear'. Suits and blazers were 'casual wear' or at least that was the standard back in the day. Once you have a tux and the black accessories you are set forever. A man can literally wear a tux every night for dinner if it's called for and no one would bat an eye from the repetition. It's literally a uniform.

[kira5]

When I sailed on Cunard a few years ago, it was a little like Downton Abby. I enjoyed that.

[beaniele]

Reference to bold sentence above... jeans are not acceptable on gala nights in the MDR, but are ok in the Lido, and are ok in the MDR on smart casual nights. m--

On our Gala night last week on Amsterdam, I saw people wearing walking shoes and jeans. Even last night at Pinnacle there was a gentleman in walking shoes and jeans. But, most people dress as required. Nice slacks, collared shirts for men and nice slacks and dressier tops for women.

 

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[RocketMan275]

Why are guys so hesitant to get a tux? It's a fantastic investment. In commonwealth countries, we call it a "dinner suit"; it's the 'uniform' for dining out in style at sea or ashore. It's actual 'informal wear' for dinner, with 'white tie' being 'formal wear'. Suits and blazers were 'casual wear' or at least that was the standard back in the day. Once you have a tux and the black accessories you are set forever. A man can literally wear a tux every night for dinner if it's called for and no one would bat an eye from the repetition. It's literally a uniform.

 

Why should I buy something I have no desire to own or to wear? It would be a terrible investment because I wouldn't wear it. I decline all invitations that require a tuxedo. If the cruise line provided a tuxedo free of charge, I wouldn't put it on. I make no excuses. I don't like to dress up. I don't want to dress up. I won't dress up.

 

You may consider dinner in formal wear "dining out in style", but if you notice, the more up the scale you go, the less the requirement for formal wear.

[iancal]

I live in a 'Commonwealth" country and I certainly don't view a tuxedo is a great investment. We see fewer and fewer of them. My father had two,,,they both hung in his closet for five years. He preferred a business suit as did many of his associates.

 

Even when we hosted high end events for senior executives there was seldom a tux to be found....other than on the bar staff.

 

My experience in business mirrors the OP....the more senior the executive or partner the more likely they are to dress down NOT up. I suspect that some of the desire to wear formal is aspirational- based on a belief that many people in higher income positions or stations of life have a preference for this attire. They don't. Especially on a vacation where they want a break from formal occasions and playing Mr. Dress up. At least this is our experience.

[bUU]

Why are guys so hesitant to get a tux?

We try to live simply with less. The rule in our house is one piece of clothing in, one piece of clothing donated. So the clothing we have must serve us well in our daily lives. Having a tux would mean living without a dark suit for funerals, conferences, etc. The dark suit is more flexible and fits into more situations.

 

 

 

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[RJ2002]

On our Gala night last week on Amsterdam, I saw people wearing walking shoes and jeans. Even last night at Pinnacle there was a gentleman in walking shoes and jeans. But, most people dress as required. Nice slacks, collared shirts for men and nice slacks and dressier tops for women.

 

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Just a passing comment on shoes... some people may have foot issues which make the wearing of dress shoes uncomfortable (or impossible). Many times I've seen both men and women dressed to the nines on Gala nights, but were wearing comfortable shoes.

[bUU]

The fact that you talk about two different kinds of shoes as "dress shoes" and "comfortable shoes" highlights part of the problem.

 

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[RJ2002]

The fact that you talk about two different kinds of shoes as "dress shoes" and "comfortable shoes" highlights part of the problem.

 

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Please elaborate.

[bUU]

Elaborate in what way? I suppose I could speculate about why this is the case. I suspect it is class related. More formal clothing is thereby associated more with affluence rather than the ritual of dining. Maybe even some of the preference some hold for formal attire stems from an exclusionary preference, one that places them in some way above those who can not justify the expense. But again I think it's really just speculation.

 

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Edited August 26, 2017 by bUU

[slidergirl]

The fact that you talk about two different kinds of shoes as "dress shoes" and "comfortable shoes" highlights part of the problem.

 

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+1

 

Why does footwear even matter? Lifting up the nose because someone does not have what you consider "dress" shoes does imply a certain arrogance and a level of ignorance. Feet are delicate pieces of the body. Some may find it very painful to impossible to put on a pair of constructed shoes. To imply that someone need to be in pain to satisfy a whim of another passenger... Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the guidelines only say no flip flop/sandals? It doesn't say one must wear "dress" shoes, does it? Look more at your food and tablemates and less on people's feet ;)

 

As long a people dress to the minimum guidelines, I have no problem at all. If a man wants to dress in khakis and polo shirt, fine. If a man wants to dress in the tux, fine. If a woman wants to dress in a sundress, fine. If a woman wants to dress in the beaded gown, fine. I'm more interested in enjoying my food than eyeballing everyone who comes into the MDR and evaluating their "style."

[RJ2002]

Elaborate in what way? I suppose I could speculate about why this is the case. I suspect it is class related. More formal clothing is thereby associated more with affluence rather than the ritual of dining. Maybe even some of the preference some hold for formal attire stems from an exclusionary preference, one that places them in some way above those who can I justify the expense. But again I think it's really just speculation.

 

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Thank you. With regard to the issue of shoes (which is what I was posting about), when someone must wear a certain type of shoe due to a foot condition, I would not call that "class related".

[bUU]

Thank you. With regard to the issue of shoes (which is what I was posting about), when someone must wear a certain type of shoe due to a foot condition, I would not call that "class related".

Nor would I, but wearing comfortable casual shoes rather than uncomfortable but affordable dress shoes could be... and as the previous poster pointed out, compliant with the dress code for gala nights.

 

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[RJ2002]

+1

 

Why does footwear even matter? Lifting up the nose because someone does not have what you consider "dress" shoes does imply a certain arrogance and a level of ignorance. Feet are delicate pieces of the body. Some may find it very painful to impossible to put on a pair of constructed shoes. To imply that someone need to be in pain to satisfy a whim of another passenger... Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the guidelines only say no flip flop/sandals? It doesn't say one must wear "dress" shoes, does it? Look more at your food and tablemates and less on people's feet ;)

 

As long a people dress to the minimum guidelines, I have no problem at all. If a man wants to dress in khakis and polo shirt, fine. If a man wants to dress in the tux, fine. If a woman wants to dress in a sundress, fine. If a woman wants to dress in the beaded gown, fine. I'm more interested in enjoying my food than eyeballing everyone who comes into the MDR and evaluating their "style."

 

Agree 100%. Well put.

[beaniele]

Just a passing comment on shoes... some people may have foot issues which make the wearing of dress shoes uncomfortable (or impossible). Many times I've seen both men and women dressed to the nines on Gala nights, but were wearing comfortable shoes.

The shoes may have been for issues but they were in jeans. No biggie to me just my observation.

 

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