How much does the crew make (mainly dining). Gratuities and tips thread

[mikel24m]

I know the staff on the ships work extremely hard but that is what they choose. When we cruise I don't worry about their working conditions but we do leave our auto-tips in place and tip over and above on the last night of the trip (room steward and MDR waiters). I tip for room service and I tip when I get bar service throughout the cruise. A very simple process that doesn't require an Excel spreadsheet.

It's not even our business what these people make. People like us know to just leave the auto grats on and tip more as we see fit

 

Cheap people are cheap people and they try to justify being cheap and will fight about it til the end of time.

 

I hope they know that the staff knows who removes tips! I know this for a fact and have a photo that proves it

 

Hope they hide their toothbrush :)

 

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[Herfnerd]

No I wouldn't. My whole point of the thread was to learn the customs. If I was going to Australia I would learn what is customary. Most responses Ive seen are just "you have no business knowing, just do what youre told". I mean I guess that's fine, I was just trying to learn. shrug.

 

You're being inconsistent.

 

If you are trying to learn the "customs", the custom for cruising is to pay the daily gratuities as recommended by the cruise line

[redraidersrule]

It was directed at you. You openly admitted you “never tip”. And so now you’re asking what they make as a way of justifying you not tipping? I assure you they don’t make a lot. I dated a girl who did youth stuff on carnival and her take home in relation to time was not good. Like $1,000/mo?

 

If you tip 20% on a $100 meal, you’re tipping $20 for someone who brought you a couple drinks and plates of food on an experience that lasted maybe 2hours? Honestly, it’s the kitchen staff who should get that.

 

Take that $20 for someone who spent time cleaning your mess for a week straight only to do it again the next day.

 

 

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Either you have reading comprehension on a 2 year old level or you like to lie like the media and Trump. Either way, please continue for my amusement.

[redraidersrule]

 

 

 

You say your intent was to learn the customs, yet your original post is loaded with a lot of thoughts of how things should be.

 

Before posting, you already read the website, you didn’t like what you saw so you came here looking for justification to do things the way you think they should be done.

 

 

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Uh, exactly. I had a thought on what they should be because I read Carnivals website. So then I came on here to here other thoughts and opinions. So far, other posters thoughts and opinions have backed up my original thoughts.

[chengkp75]

Not sure what lines you have been sailing on, but I can guarantee that cabin stewards are not making anywhere close to $5400/month, regardless of how the cruise line says the DSC is distributed. Even the US crew on the POA, making Hawaiian minimum wage plus time and a quarter overtime, only make about $4000/month. They make a fine income for their home countries, but nowhere near what you say.

[redraidersrule]

 

You're being inconsistent.

 

If you are trying to learn the "customs", the custom for cruising is to pay the daily gratuities as recommended by the cruise line

maybe. All I was really searching for was the WHY. Apparently no one knows and that's fine. I'll just leave the way it is.

[chengkp75]

maybe. All I was really searching for was the WHY. Apparently no one knows and that's fine. I'll just leave the way it is.

 

The "why" is that it is really not a "gratuity" but a "service charge". The reason the cruise lines do this is twofold: one is to keep the advertised cabin fare as low as possible, by making the majority of the guest service crew's wages come from a "service charge" that must be disclosed at booking, but is only listed as "taxes and charges additional" on the advertising. Second, as I said above, the cruise line uses this pooled DSC as a "team building" method, by having crew protect their own pocketbooks by policing poor performers on their team. This also allows the cruise line to shift blame for a crew member's reduced wage packet from them to the passengers "we didn't remove the DSC, the passengers did". I don't say it's a fair system, or a just one, but it is what the industry follows.

[Herfnerd]

 

The "why" is that it is really not a "gratuity" but a "service charge". The reason the cruise lines do this is twofold: one is to keep the advertised cabin fare as low as possible, by making the majority of the guest service crew's wages come from a "service charge" that must be disclosed at booking, but is only listed as "taxes and charges additional" on the advertising. Second, as I said above, the cruise line uses this pooled DSC as a "team building" method, by having crew protect their own pocketbooks by policing poor performers on their team. This also allows the cruise line to shift blame for a crew member's reduced wage packet from them to the passengers "we didn't remove the DSC, the passengers did". I don't say it's a fair system, or a just one, but it is what the industry follows.

 

BOOM! Final answer with mic drop from the chief engineer, lol!

[redraidersrule]

 

The "why" is that it is really not a "gratuity" but a "service charge". The reason the cruise lines do this is twofold: one is to keep the advertised cabin fare as low as possible, by making the majority of the guest service crew's wages come from a "service charge" that must be disclosed at booking, but is only listed as "taxes and charges additional" on the advertising. Second, as I said above, the cruise line uses this pooled DSC as a "team building" method, by having crew protect their own pocketbooks by policing poor performers on their team. This also allows the cruise line to shift blame for a crew member's reduced wage packet from them to the passengers "we didn't remove the DSC, the passengers did". I don't say it's a fair system, or a just one, but it is what the industry follows.

Interesting. To the person paying its the same. For me, a tip and a service charge are the same thing. So I decided to google the difference and this came up.

 

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/tips-versus-service-charges-how-to-report

 

So it appears as if you are paying you could care less what the difference is. But if you are receiving it matters for tax purposes. I'm not even sure if cruise staff reports to the US IRS or not.

 

So a service charge is added automatically, like at a restaurant with a big party, etc. Even the IRS website mentions cruise ship package fee (not even sure what that is). However, it is clear from Carnivals website that they are optional and discretionary. Carnival gratuities clearly falls under the tipping section of the IRS, as it meets all the criteria that it should, this includes tip pooling and sharing.

 

Again I have no clue where the staff has to report wages but by IRS standards they are tips and not service charges. Can you show me (maybe a screen print) where these charges are disclosed at booking? I do see where you can pre pay at booking, is that what you are talking about? Thanks for the info.

[nealstuber]

 

Uh, exactly. I had a thought on what they should be because I read Carnivals website. So then I came on here to here other thoughts and opinions. So far, other posters thoughts and opinions have backed up my original thoughts.

 

 

 

I’m not sure what thread you’ve been reading, but I’m not seeing anyone who says it’s OK to stiff the other services group nor have I seen anyone back-up your notion that room stewards should be tipped the same way as hotel housekeeping.

 

If you’ve been on any other tipping thread, you’ll find an overwhelming consensus that it’s “customary” to leave the auto tips in place and tip extra is you are so inclined.

 

If you’ve drawn other conclusions from this thread then you’re not learning very quickly.

 

 

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[chengkp75]

Interesting. To the person paying its the same. For me, a tip and a service charge are the same thing. So I decided to google the difference and this came up.

 

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/tips-versus-service-charges-how-to-report

 

So it appears as if you are paying you could care less what the difference is. But if you are receiving it matters for tax purposes. I'm not even sure if cruise staff reports to the US IRS or not.

 

So a service charge is added automatically, like at a restaurant with a big party, etc. Even the IRS website mentions cruise ship package fee (not even sure what that is). However, it is clear from Carnivals website that they are optional and discretionary. Carnival gratuities clearly falls under the tipping section of the IRS, as it meets all the criteria that it should, this includes tip pooling and sharing.

 

Again I have no clue where the staff has to report wages but by IRS standards they are tips and not service charges. Can you show me (maybe a screen print) where these charges are disclosed at booking? I do see where you can pre pay at booking, is that what you are talking about? Thanks for the info.

 

The only cruise ship crew that has anything to do with the IRS is the US crew on Norwegian's POA. Foreign crew are liable for taxes in their home country. Yes, they are optional and discretionary, but without them, the cruise line has to make up the difference in the crew's wages to the minimum required under international law, as I cited earlier. However, the cruise line does not have to make the crew member's wages "whole" if the DSC is removed, just up to the minimum, so removing or reducing the DSC reduces the entire team's pay by a small bit per team member, and per guest.

 

I don't know about all the countries that the crew come from, but for instance the Philippines, any money a taxpayer receives from their employer, whether listed as wages, salary, or gratuities is considered to be taxable income. Money recieved directly from the client (passenger) would be considered a gratuity, and is taxed differently.

 

I've never booked a Carnival cruise, so I don't know what is included in their documentation, but most lines will list the amount of DSC (it is in Carnival's FAQ's about gratuities), but it may be in fine print. Yes, the listing to be able to pre-pay the gratuities shows how much they would be.

[nealstuber]

 

 

 

The "why" is that it is really not a "gratuity" but a "service charge". The reason the cruise lines do this is twofold: one is to keep the advertised cabin fare as low as possible, by making the majority of the guest service crew's wages come from a "service charge" that must be disclosed at booking, but is only listed as "taxes and charges additional" on the advertising. Second, as I said above, the cruise line uses this pooled DSC as a "team building" method, by having crew protect their own pocketbooks by policing poor performers on their team. This also allows the cruise line to shift blame for a crew member's reduced wage packet from them to the passengers "we didn't remove the DSC, the passengers did". I don't say it's a fair system, or a just one, but it is what the industry follows.

 

 

 

Hey KP, Since you’ve waded in to this thread I do have some questions on this issue. Like others in this thread, I don’t think it’s really our business how much these guys make; but, I do think there is a legitimate concern that tips are not being allocated as advertised.

 

As passenger to crew ratios continue to drop, it would stand to reason that folks paid from the service pool should be making more. But I’m wondering if the lines are reclassifying jobs that used to be paid as salary to jobs paid through the service pool.

 

 

 

 

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[chengkp75]

 

 

 

Hey KP, Since you’ve waded in to this thread I do have some questions on this issue. Like others in this thread, I don’t think it’s really our business how much these guys make; but, I do think there is a legitimate concern that tips are not being allocated as advertised.

 

As passenger to crew ratios continue to drop, it would stand to reason that folks paid from the service pool should be making more. But I’m wondering if the lines are reclassifying jobs that used to be paid as salary to jobs paid through the service pool.

 

 

 

 

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I was afraid I'd get sucked into another tip thread, I should have listened to the little man at the back of my head.

 

I can't say for definite that pax/crew ratios are changing, but that crew are being assigned to other duties than front line guest services, so the total pax/crew ratio may remain the same but the "visible" part is decreasing. I don't know, its been a few years since I worked the ships, but I really don't see them reducing crew that much, particularly with the recently adopted Manila amendments (MLC 2006) to the STCW Convention, which strictly limits the number of hours a seafarer can work in any given day and week. It may be that they need more labor in different areas, and are moving cabin stewards (or assistants) to those areas. Then they may be reallocating these jobs into the DSC pool, again I can't say, but it would make sense. Again, just remember, if they do away with the DSC, for whoever receives it, they will just hike the mandatory cruise fare to cover the expenses, so if a portion of the DSC goes to someone who didn't receive it previously, I just don't see how that makes any difference.

[debster11]

I prepay the gratuities and tip extra when service is great. It's easier because it's like part of my cruisefare.

[jeffjeffjeffjeff]

Y'all are funny.

[Aquahound]

I was afraid I'd get sucked into another tip thread, I should have listened to the little man at the back of my head.

 

I'm very disappointed in you. ;)

[Toofarfromthesea]

But this is my whole point. Im from the United States. We don't tip these jobs here, that's the whole reason for me questioning. You don't tip at places like McDonalds and Starbucks do you? No. So why am I tipping the dessert station guy?

 

Also after listening to most of you, most of you complaining about how its not my business etc. I'll just do what some of yall do. I'll just take my tips to zero and tip in cash from now on. I'll reward good service. Tips going into a pool is BS and rewards bad service.

 

Yeah, we all pretty much knew where you were heading with this.

 

Because once it is explained that if you take off the auto grats any cash tips you give have to be turned into the general pool and shared out the same way the auto grats are, your whole 'i want my tips to go to . . .' argument is revealed as the specious rationalization that it is.

 

I never believe when people claim to do this and also claim that they tip more than the auto grats. To believe them I would have to believe they go through all of this just so their personal tips will - uh oh - get distributed exactly like the auto grats are. So their actions do not end up accomplishing their stated goal. So their hidden reason must be something else. Claiming that your reason is that the pool is BS is what is BS, since one way or another the only tips that DON'T go into the pool are the extra ones given by the people who DIDN'T remove the auto grats.

 

A little birdie told me the real reason: cheep, cheep, cheep.

 

But how nice that people at or near the top of the global heap feel good about their rationalization for $crewing over people much much nearer the bottom.

 

Me, I'd rather just be a decent person and do the right thing.

[chengkp75]

I'm very disappointed in you. ;)

 

Me, too! :o

[midwest 852]

Not sure what lines you have been sailing on, but I can guarantee that cabin stewards are not making anywhere close to $5400/month, regardless of how the cruise line says the DSC is distributed. Even the US crew on the POA, making Hawaiian minimum wage plus time and a quarter overtime, only make about $4000/month. They make a fine income for their home countries, but nowhere near what you say.

 

When you do the math it comes out about $5400 so are you saying that staff is not getting the full amount? The US crew has to pay taxes on there income but $4000 a month is a good wage. Not sure about your state but here in Michigan there’s lots of jobs that work 12 hour shifts & weekends/holidays for less pay.

[Fastfredcruise]

My only problem with tipping in restraunts is the cost basis. In a dinner in which several courses are served the total may be less than a seafood or steak place. The server effort in the dinner is much more than delivering one high priced dish, yet the conventional tip is less.

[nealstuber]

 

 

 

I was afraid I'd get sucked into another tip thread, I should have listened to the little man at the back of my head.

 

 

 

I can't say for definite that pax/crew ratios are changing, but that crew are being assigned to other duties than front line guest services, so the total pax/crew ratio may remain the same but the "visible" part is decreasing. I don't know, its been a few years since I worked the ships, but I really don't see them reducing crew that much, particularly with the recently adopted Manila amendments (MLC 2006) to the STCW Convention, which strictly limits the number of hours a seafarer can work in any given day and week. It may be that they need more labor in different areas, and are moving cabin stewards (or assistants) to those areas. Then they may be reallocating these jobs into the DSC pool, again I can't say, but it would make sense. Again, just remember, if they do away with the DSC, for whoever receives it, they will just hike the mandatory cruise fare to cover the expenses, so if a portion of the DSC goes to someone who didn't receive it previously, I just don't see how that makes any difference.

 

 

 

I’m not saying these people don’t need to be paid and if the lines were being straight forward about it that would be fine with me.

But when they raise the DSC rates, it’s always presented as if they are giving the crew more money. If it’s actually a way to keep the advertised price of the cruise down, that does make a difference.

 

I certainly take you at your word with respect to monthly pay for these jobs, but it does not reconcile with the math presented by others.

 

These is no doubt that Stewards on Carnival have more rooms and Wait Teams more tables. They have to work harder and we get less service. I would like to think that the upside to this equation DSC staff get more money for their extra work load. But it does not seem like that is what’s happening.

 

 

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[chengkp75]

When you do the math it comes out about $5400 so are you saying that staff is not getting the full amount? The US crew has to pay taxes on there income but $4000 a month is a good wage. Not sure about your state but here in Michigan there’s lots of jobs that work 12 hour shifts & weekends/holidays for less pay.

 

What I am saying is that Carnival's FAQ states the DSC is divided between the "housekeeping team", the "dining team" and the "alternative services". What positions, and how many, are in each of those "teams" determines how much of each passenger's DSC the individual crew gets. The crew gets the "full amount", but the pie is split more times than just the one cabin steward or two waiters you see.

 

Well, Hawaii's minimum wage is $9.25 and Michigan is $8.90. Both states require 1.5 times base pay for excess of 40 hours, so I don't see too much variance between states, unless there is something like what the POA crew have, where their collective bargaining agreement sets overtime at 1.25 of base. Collective bargaining agreements can always override a local law, since it is considered to be an agreement between both parties to accept a different pay scale. Heck, when the Norwegian US flag ships first started out in Hawaii, the deck and engine crews' union agreement called for an overtime rate $0.65 less than the base rate, and this was legal as a CBA. The POA crew are also required to pay Hawaii state tax, the highest in the country, and then try to reclaim it against the state taxes in their state of residence. You also have to realize that the $4000/month, is only for 8 months a year, so while it's not a poverty level job, it is still a minimum wage job, where you have to stay away from home for months at a time, live in a cabin with three strangers that is only about twice the size of a federal prison cell, and are not free to go do whatever you want to when you are off work.

[chengkp75]

 

 

 

I’m not saying these people don’t need to be paid and if the lines were being straight forward about it that would be fine with me.

But when they raise the DSC rates, it’s always presented as if they are giving the crew more money. If it’s actually a way to keep the advertised price of the cruise down, that does make a difference.

 

I certainly take you at your word with respect to monthly pay for these jobs, but it does not reconcile with the math presented by others.

 

These is no doubt that Stewards on Carnival have more rooms and Wait Teams more tables. They have to work harder and we get less service. I would like to think that the upside to this equation DSC staff get more money for their extra work load. But it does not seem like that is what’s happening.

 

 

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I'm not a fan of the DSC, nor the stick and carrot approach to teamwork that it engenders. With an increase in DSC, the crew does not necessarily get "more money", but their wage shifts more to the DSC and less to the fixed wage. Again, it is simply a way of keeping the advertised fare down. Instead of raising the DSC to cover increased costs, they could just raise the fare, and it all comes out of the passengers' pockets anyway. Let's face it, whether you pay a DSC, or the cruise line does away with it and includes it in the cruise fare, you are still paying the crew's salary, so I don't see why it makes much difference. I just look at the total price of a cruise, fare and DSC, and determine whether it is acceptable to me or not, or whether another line is cheaper or not.

 

I don't dispute that the front line troops are getting fewer, but as I said in previous post, you don't know how many pieces your DSC is cut into for each "team". On international ships, the deck and engine crew were desirable positions because their pay was higher than hotel staff. Our entry level jobs, "ordinary seamen" and "engine boys" got a whopping $.65/hr overtime rate, so if that was a "preferred job" what were the other jobs paying? (Admittedly, this was a few years ago, and before the MLC set a minimum wage, but it hasn't changed too much).

[midwest 852]

What I am saying is that Carnival's FAQ states the DSC is divided between the "housekeeping team", the "dining team" and the "alternative services". What positions, and how many, are in each of those "teams" determines how much of each passenger's DSC the individual crew gets. The crew gets the "full amount", but the pie is split more times than just the one cabin steward or two waiters you see.

 

Well, Hawaii's minimum wage is $9.25 and Michigan is $8.90. Both states require 1.5 times base pay for excess of 40 hours, so I don't see too much variance between states, unless there is something like what the POA crew have, where their collective bargaining agreement sets overtime at 1.25 of base. Collective bargaining agreements can always override a local law, since it is considered to be an agreement between both parties to accept a different pay scale. Heck, when the Norwegian US flag ships first started out in Hawaii, the deck and engine crews' union agreement called for an overtime rate $0.65 less than the base rate, and this was legal as a CBA. The POA crew are also required to pay Hawaii state tax, the highest in the country, and then try to reclaim it against the state taxes in their state of residence. You also have to realize that the $4000/month, is only for 8 months a year, so while it's not a poverty level job, it is still a minimum wage job, where you have to stay away from home for months at a time, live in a cabin with three strangers that is only about twice the size of a federal prison cell, and are not free to go do whatever you want to when you are off work.

 

I get what your saying i guess i look at it different. i see $4000.00 a month for 8 months paying no taxes. I work 3 months that all goes to taxes & being in a cabin even if its small its free.

[chengkp75]

I get what your saying i guess i look at it different. i see $4000.00 a month for 8 months paying no taxes. I work 3 months that all goes to taxes & being in a cabin even if its small its free.

 

If the crew is single and living with someone else, so they don't own a house or rent an apartment, then they don't have any housing expense. But, if they are on their own, or have a family, you have to pay mortgage or rent whether you are there or on the ship, so you are paying for housing while on the ship. Unless, of course, they pack up their belongings, put it in storage, and sublet their apartment while on the ship. Not sure what you mean by "8 months paying no taxes". As I've said, the crew are subject to taxes in their home country, or in Hawaii for the POA crew, as well as in their home state. Working 8 months a year is 240+- days a year, while working 5 days a week is 260+- (and the crew don't get holidays off), so take that $4000/month and make it last over 12 months, and you have $2600/month.