State Dept Cuban warning

[champbord]

I was talking about the 'tours' since I have an understanding from visiting N. Korea, Iran and Tibet. I believe this is what this thread is about. I was answering a Canadian. I am not talking about Cruise Ship visits because it is something that is weird to me. Traveling to Cuba on 'tours' and 'special visas' and 'all the rules' just makes me question what kind of Cuba are the newly US tourists going to experience. They are selling expensive educational tours but how is this possible?

 

Why is the US imposing these rules and why is Cuba allowing it when they already give US passport holders visas? Cuba is obviously in agreement with the new rules because now ALL Americans can go if they obtain these types of visas. Before this a bunch of Americans entering the country probably wasn't an issue.

 

When I heard about 'suspicious activities' with the US Embassy staff I wasn't shocked.

If you spend a lot of time in Cuba, the sentiment is that they don't trust Americans. You have to understand this from the Cubans point of view and how much they suffer with the bloqueo.

 

You know this is my culture and I see it as my birthright trip. I want to learn in Cuba from Cubans. I never got in any trouble but if it happened and I wanted to continue my travels to Cuba then I would just move to another country.

 

For the person asking about the Cuba stamp on the passport. Well, that 'stamp' costs money when you purchase your on-arrival entry visa. Now, the US has a reason to investigate if you bought it with US currency.

 

I suppose if you travel on legal Cuba tours, then you can have your stamp! ;')

 

Curious. Is RC giving y'all Cuba stamps????

I know this is possible on European cruises.

[gadaboutgal]

The passport is stamped by Cuban officials when you disembark and enter the Cuban immigration area in the Havana Terminal. It has nothing to do with the ship.

It used to be that Americans were told not to get their passport stamped when traveling to Cuba via other countries so that U.S. officials would not see the stamp in the passport at any time in the future. At that time, there was no legal way to go to Cuba.

It is purely U.S. politics that do not permit its citizens free travel to Cuba. Here we are once again being pawns of the reigning Political Party.

[dwgreenlee]

It is because Cuba doesn't trust Americans.

 

Everyone gets to travel to Cuba freely except Americans. There is tourism! Always. It is NOT this isolated place at all!

 

I have been going to Cuba for the last 10 years with USA passport. I fly from Guatemala or Costa Rica. You get your visa and entry stamp on a piece of paper. You exchange money at the airport. Then you are good to go!! Go back to Central America and fly to USA. I have never been questioned upon USA arrival.

 

I would never go to Cuba on cruise line or one of those guided American 'baby-sitter' tours. They have the same laws in places like Tibet, North Korea, Iran. All it does is jack up the price by 1,000's of dollars! Cuba Visa on arrival is $20. Travel companies already charging at least 3 times this price.

 

I think Land Based tours for Americans start at $2,500 for a week. Whaaaaat??? I can do Cuba comfortably for about $500 a week staying in a Casa. Then the people from the Casa people take you out to all the local places.

 

It is purely political.

It means they want all Americans escorted to minimize 'spy' activity. They don't trust us wandering about unescorted in their countries....hence, why we need to legally be on 'organized' tours. hahahah!

 

You are safe!!!! If you speak Spanish, you will have the time of your life! If you look Cuban, you can get away paying in Cuban pesos, too! ;')

 

As a "person subject to US Jurisdiction”, you are not relived of compliance with the US Embargo against Cuba by traveling thru a third country.

 

US Customs would have not questioned you upon return to the US because they do not normally enforce the sanctions unless you are smuggling something - US Customs does collect information about Cuba travel and refer it to the US Treasury.

 

Normal enforcement action taken by the US Treasury is in the form of a violation notice letter sent months - even years - after the travel. The letter will offer you the opportunity to settle the violation for a fixed amount of money. From there you can negotiate or request a hearing. If you disagree with the results you can go to court.

 

Enforcement action against individuals is extremely rare - due to Treasury resource limitations. Still, I would not advertise violations on social media.

Edited November 19, 2017 by dwgreenlee
typo

[Milwaukee Eight]

It is my understanding that it is not 'illegal' to visit Cuba. It is illegal to spend US currency. I exchanged Euros. I worked in China, so the money originated from there not US. US gov't can't stop people from traveling! Who told you this? It is up to the country to allow you enter. This is why Americans go to Cuba. Cuba gives visas to US passport holders.

 

 

 

Things also change with POTUS. When Clinton was POTUS, it wasn't strict. Clinton encouraged students to travel and even gave out grants. It is important to travel freely so that we can better understand the world.

 

 

 

Even though it could be against US Policy/Regulation?

 

 

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[alfaeric]

Yes, solely a US Regulation. So if US Citizen, why would anyone choose to violate?? Doesn’t matter if you agree with it or not, it is a policy/Regulation.

 

 

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Because you can still legally go.

 

It’s a matter of understanding how.

 

Especially when going does undermine the communist system.

 

 

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[clojacks]

Well, this kind of derailed... the original discussion steered towards a topic that would be of interest to those of us traveling to Cuba on a cruise ship....specifically a Royal Caribbean cruise ship...and what the impact of a letter that Royal has been distributing, regarding Tours taken by its passengers, would be. It appears like a lot of us are being forced to take a tour sponsored by Royal that we have no interest in taking, but it is apparently the only way for us to leave the ship. Hopefully the discussion can get back to that topic.

 

 

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[alfaeric]

Hopefully, someone from the ship will tell us that they are still allowing private tours...

 

 

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[SRF]

If your a US Citizen, why would you openly violate the restrictions placed upon you?

 

And post about violating Federal law ON A PUBLIC FORUM.

[alfaeric]

And post about violating Federal law ON A PUBLIC FORUM.

 

 

 

With all due respect, seems like everyone is trying NOT to violate the law. Even more, most are also interested in bringing about change in Cuba as well.

 

So both the law and the intention.

 

 

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[clojacks]

I just got done looking at some of the other Empress Roll Calls and it sounds like Royal is distributing all kinds of different stories. Some say when the tour is over, you have to return to the ship. Some say that when the tour is over, you are free to wander. Some say you can do an independent tour even if you booked after June 16, if they are licensed. This is incredibly frustrating and I question whether Royal has the ability to offer Tours to all those who may now be obligated to book through Royal if they want to see Havana. Hopefully, they get their stories unified soon. I also checked he Azamara and Oceania boards as they are also affected.

 

 

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[MVasa70]

Well, this kind of derailed... the original discussion steered towards a topic that would be of interest to those of us traveling to Cuba on a cruise ship....specifically a Royal Caribbean cruise ship...and what the impact of a letter that Royal has been distributing, regarding Tours taken by its passengers, would be. It appears like a lot of us are being forced to take a tour sponsored by Royal that we have no interest in taking, but it is apparently the only way for us to leave the ship. Hopefully the discussion can get back to that topic.

 

 

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Ok, I've been doing some digging, and it seems there are TWO ways under which US Citizens typically will enter Cuba on a cruise ship. Either the "People to People" option, which is ONLY allowable as part of a group educational activity (such as a RC excursion, which complies with this). The law changed in 2017. Prior to this, people were allowed to travel under this category as individuals, as long as they were engaged in educational activities. (i.e. independent tours on their own). THIS is the option RCCL promotes because it is in their best interest to do so. People think they have to buy their excursions to satisfy this requirement. All of the FAQ's and reference to travel to Cuba in RC's materials and website are pertinent to this "people to people" option, which again, is ONLY available for traveling in organized groups.

 

There is a 2nd option, which, in the Royal Caribbean travel certificate form, is conveniently located among the list of "Other" travel reasons toward the bottom of the page. This option is called "Support for the Cuban People" and this one DOES allow you to book private tours, or walk around on your own in Cuba. As long as you are engaging in activities supporting the Cuban people. For example, booking a private tour with a local tour guide is a legitimate activity, as it supports Cuban private entrepreneurs. RC is vague when asked whether or not we are allowed to venture on our own because they don't want to share that we can if we check off this option. They want to steer us toward the "people to people" selection in order to sell us their group excursions, which do comply with that Cuba license category. See their form here:

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/cuba/content/uploads/2017/11/Cuba.Guest_.Cert_.Final_.Nov_.14.pdf

 

The "Support for Cuban People" category, by the way, reads as follows:

 

Support for the Cuban people. I am traveling to Cuba to engage with recognized human rights organizations,independent organizations designed to promote a rapid, peaceful transition to democracy, or individuals and non-governmentalorganizations that promote independent activity intended to strengthen civil society in Cuba; AND my schedule of activitiesdoes not include free time or recreation in excess of that consistent with a full-time schedule (31 C.F.R. § 515.574)

 

You can see the instructions here (4th bullet of page 3):

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/cuba/content/uploads/2017/11/Cuba.Guest_.Instructions.Final_.Nov_.14.Rev_.pdf

 

Here is a document from the US Treasury that provides more information on page 3.

 

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Documents/cuba_fact_sheet_11082017.pdf

 

Hope this helps!

[fhmoore]

We were on the Empress five night itinerary Jan 22-25 2018. We booked AFTER June 16th and we took a non

 

 

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[fhmoore]

Oops...non-Royal Caribbean tour of Havana. It was an approved tour through an approved company. We did not spend any money at any venue owned or profited by the Cuban Government. We were allowed to walk around after the tour ended. We did not do so.

 

 

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[Gator3]

We chose Havana Journeys, a private company, and not only got a great walking and 1957 Chevy tour, but had tour guides who were free to have an unbiased discussion about life in Cuba. Those who took the excursion offered by RCL said their guides were giving the Cuban government version.

[rt1092]

We chose Havana Journeys, a private company, and not only got a great walking and 1957 Chevy tour, but had tour guides who were free to have an unbiased discussion about life in Cuba. Those who took the excursion offered by RCL said their guides were giving the Cuban government version.

Almost all guides have only heard the "government version" In their schools there is no teaching both sides. Only the standard version.

[Magnetchief]

Thanks for posting that MVasa70.

Would have hated to leave my American wife onboard whilst we all went ashore.

[Go-Bucks!]

Almost all guides have only heard the "government version" In their schools there is no teaching both sides. Only the standard version.

We mostly toured on our own, but also booked our own private car/driver & guide in Cienfuegos. Our guide was very honest and shared what she liked and what she didn't like about her government. Her main dislike was the same thing that several other locals told us.....they wished they had the freedom to leave their country to travel. It made us sad for them. But she was satisfied with the socialistic type of lifestyle they have, especially now that they have more capitalistic opportunities such as having a second job as a tour guide. She made more than twice her monthly government salary in the one day she was with us! :cool:

[Go-Bucks!]

Thanks for posting that MVasa70.

Would have hated to leave my American wife onboard whilst we all went ashore.

No one has to stay onboard! Just take your passport, visa & money and walk off the ship. Go out of the terminal and have a great time. You'll love Cuba!

[mpat]

Ok, I've been doing some digging, and it seems there are TWO ways under which US Citizens typically will enter Cuba on a cruise ship. Either the "People to People" option, which is ONLY allowable as part of a group educational activity (such as a RC excursion, which complies with this). The law changed in 2017. Prior to this, people were allowed to travel under this category as individuals, as long as they were engaged in educational activities. (i.e. independent tours on their own). THIS is the option RCCL promotes because it is in their best interest to do so. People think they have to buy their excursions to satisfy this requirement. All of the FAQ's and reference to travel to Cuba in RC's materials and website are pertinent to this "people to people" option, which again, is ONLY available for traveling in organized groups.

 

There is a 2nd option, which, in the Royal Caribbean travel certificate form, is conveniently located among the list of "Other" travel reasons toward the bottom of the page. This option is called "Support for the Cuban People" and this one DOES allow you to book private tours, or walk around on your own in Cuba. As long as you are engaging in activities supporting the Cuban people. For example, booking a private tour with a local tour guide is a legitimate activity, as it supports Cuban private entrepreneurs. RC is vague when asked whether or not we are allowed to venture on our own because they don't want to share that we can if we check off this option. They want to steer us toward the "people to people" selection in order to sell us their group excursions, which do comply with that Cuba license category. See their form here:

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/cuba/content/uploads/2017/11/Cuba.Guest_.Cert_.Final_.Nov_.14.pdf

 

The "Support for Cuban People" category, by the way, reads as follows:

 

Support for the Cuban people. I am traveling to Cuba to engage with recognized human rights organizations,independent organizations designed to promote a rapid, peaceful transition to democracy, or individuals and non-governmentalorganizations that promote independent activity intended to strengthen civil society in Cuba; AND my schedule of activitiesdoes not include free time or recreation in excess of that consistent with a full-time schedule (31 C.F.R. § 515.574)

 

You can see the instructions here (4th bullet of page 3):

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/cuba/content/uploads/2017/11/Cuba.Guest_.Instructions.Final_.Nov_.14.Rev_.pdf

 

Here is a document from the US Treasury that provides more information on page 3.

 

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Documents/cuba_fact_sheet_11082017.pdf

 

Hope this helps!

 

 

I will be leaving on my cruise with Holland America soon and will be in Cuba on March 22.My travel agent told me to check the "People to People" box even if I have a private tour. However, my Havana tour guide (Blexie) stated in his confirmation email that I should check the "Support of the Cuban people". It seems that Blexie may be more informed than my travel agent. I need some guidance before I contact my travel agent again. Which one is right? Thanks!

[belkin]

I will be leaving on my cruise with Holland America soon and will be in Cuba on March 22.My travel agent told me to check the "People to People" box even if I have a private tour. However, my Havana tour guide (Blexie) stated in his confirmation email that I should check the "Support of the Cuban people". It seems that Blexie may be more informed than my travel agent. I need some guidance before I contact my travel agent again. Which one is right? Thanks!

 

Blexie is correct you need to check the Support for the Cuban people. The People to People is on the old affidavit and will not even be a choice anyway.

 

Also when you turn it in they will look it over and have you check any other boxes that you should have checked.

[SuzCruise]

I toured with Blexie as well, and he is correct. Support of the Cuban People is the way to go and his tour satisfies it perfectly.

 

 

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[mpat]

Blexie is correct you need to check the Support for the Cuban people. The People to People is on the old affidavit and will not even be a choice anyway.

 

Also when you turn it in they will look it over and have you check any other boxes that you should have checked.

 

 

Thank you for clearing that up for me!

[mpat]

I toured with Blexie as well, and he is correct. Support of the Cuban People is the way to go and his tour satisfies it perfectly.

 

 

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Thank you for that information!