Norwegian Fjords

[CanEcosse]

Anyone heard about new emission regulations in the Norwegian Fjords for next year?

I saw this on the HAL Board. "New regulations apply for ships in Norway’s World Heritage Fjords including Flam and Geiranger, from March 1, 2019 and compliance with IMO’s Tier I takes effect start of next year." Looks like HAL has already changed itineraries. Do you think this will affect Oceania ships and itineraries?

[pinotlover]

Have your TA call Oceania and report back.

 

Did that cruise in 2017. Loved it!

[R & R Carroll]

On 6/24/2019 at 5:39 PM, CanEcosse said:

Anyone heard about new emission regulations in the Norwegian Fjords for next year?

I saw this on the HAL Board. "New regulations apply for ships in Norway’s World Heritage Fjords including Flam and Geiranger, from March 1, 2019 and compliance with IMO’s Tier I takes effect start of next year." Looks like HAL has already changed itineraries. Do you think this will affect Oceania ships and itineraries?

 

I read about that also and asked my TA in June to check with Oceania. She did, and Oceania replied that there were no changes to the itinerary. This was on June 24th. We are booked on an Oceania cruise for next July that includes both ports. Before we book our flights I will likely ask specifically, if Marina will be Tier 1-compliant to enter those fjords in the 2020 season. If they are not, that will obviously affect our pre-cruise plans so that we may include those ports on our own. 

[Mura]

I was trying to figure out just what these restrictions were and found this:

 

While Norwegian authorities have previously announced that they will introduce zero emissions restrictions in their heritage fjords by 2025, the Norwegian Maritime Authority (NMA) is expected to introduce restrictions starting already next year (2019) and gradually step up the requirements.

In its publication, Navigare, the NMA states that its restrictions will cover air emissions as well as grey-and blackwater and scrubber water in the Geirangerfjord, Nærøyfjord and Aurlandsfjord.

It is currently legal to sail in the Geirangefjord with HFO without exhaust gas cleaning systems as the fjord is north of the North Sea Emission Control Area. The other two fjords are within the ECA.

The NMA will require exhaust gas cleaning systems or low-sulfur fuels such as MGO.

Another proposal, which is said to be circulating for review in Norway, is a speed restriction for all ships above 20,000 tons, which will result in reduced fuel consumption and reduced emissions.

The NMA is also proposing that ships of more than 2,500 tons and carrying more than 100 persons will not be allowed to discharge grey- or blackwater or scrubber water in the fjords. Visible smoke emissions must meet transparency requirements.

The Navigare article states that the number of ships visiting these fjords in the future is expected to go down and that the oldest ships are expected to leave first.

 

 

It would appear (I am guessing) that Marina/Riviera should be okay in terms of age but I wonder about the "R" ships.  We were in Geiranger on Insignia in 2010 and 2016.  Both times, as I recall there was only one other ship there at the time and they weren't huge ones at all.  It looks like the "R" ships tonnage is closer to 30,000 GT but if that only affects their speed in the fjords, would that be a problem,?  I don't recall the ship speeding into port, that's for sure!

 

Mura

[clo]

34 minutes ago, Mura said:

I was trying to figure out just what these restrictions were and found this:

 

We sailed on Hurtigruten's oldest and smallest ship Lofoten which is going to be taken out of their coast cruise after next season.  I'm guessing because it can't be made compliant for any reasonable amount of money.  We're sailing again with them next April.

[Mura]

Interesting ... I guess no dispensation given to scandinavian countries.  This sounds serious!

 

I would like to think that Oceania's answers to questions at this point are honest and they are not just waiting until it's too late for people to change to fess up.  Two of our favorite Oceania cruises have been the ones to Norway and the Arctic.  But they both were on "R" ships.

 

Mura

[CanEcosse]

5 hours ago, R & R Carroll said:

 

I read about that also and asked my TA in June to check with Oceania. She did, and Oceania replied that there were no changes to the itinerary. This was on June 24th. We are booked on an Oceania cruise for next July that includes both ports. Before we book our flights I will likely ask specifically, if Marina will be Tier 1-compliant to enter those fjords in the 2020 season. If they are not, that will obviously affect our pre-cruise plans so that we may include those ports on our own. 

The reply my TA got was "At this time, there has been no discussion on this". We will be on the same cruise on Marina next July. I'd like to see something in writing before our deposits become non-refundable in January.

[LHT28]

1 minute ago, CanEcosse said:

I'd like to see something in writing before our deposits become non-refundable in January.

I cannot  see that happening

I would just cancel now & book something else

JMO

 

[CanEcosse]

3 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

I cannot  see that happening

Cannot see What happening??

Quote

 

 

[clo]

1 hour ago, clo said:

We sailed on Hurtigruten's oldest and smallest ship Lofoten which is going to be taken out of their coast cruise after next season.  I'm guessing because it can't be made compliant for any reasonable amount of money.  We're sailing again with them next April.

In reply to others I'm guessing the the final "season" for Hurtigruten anyway will be 20/21.  And I dont know what those beginning/ending dates are.

[Kate-AHF]

It's not just emissions they are cracking down on.  We sailed on Seabourn Ovation in June to the North Cape.  We were supposed to sail into Trollfjord.... the entire ship was excited.  That afternoon the  captain announced that Norway had changed their minds, and now would not allow the Ovation to sail that fjord... they had quietly and without telling anyone changed the restriction to ships 185 meters or smaller. The Ovation is 215.

 

To compensate, the captain arranged for another evening of fjord cruising which was breathtaking (one of the most magical evenings we've spent on any cruise), and Seabourn issued every passenger a $150 OBC as an apology for missing Trollfjord.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Kate-AHF

[clo]

10 hours ago, clo said:

In reply to others I'm guessing the the final "season" for Hurtigruten anyway will be 20/21.  And I dont know what those beginning/ending dates are.

I should have written "Lofoten" not "Hurtigruten."

[Mura]

1 hour ago, Kate-AHF said:

It's not just emissions they are cracking down on.  We sailed on Seabourn Ovation in June to the North Cape.  We were supposed to sail into Trollfjord.... the entire ship was excited.  That afternoon the  captain announced that Norway had changed their minds, and now would not allow the Ovation to sail that fjord... they had quietly and without telling anyone changed the restriction to ships 185 meters or smaller. The Ovation is 215.

 

To compensate, the captain arranged for another evening of fjord cruising which was breathtaking (one of the most magical evenings we've spent on any cruise), and Seabourn issued every passenger a $150 OBC as an apology for missing Trollfjord.

What a pity!  We were on a Bergen Lines (now Hurtigruten, I believe) mail boat in August 1974 and the captain took us into Trollfjord TWICE!  Once going north and then again going south (Bergen-North Cape).  That was a highlight of that trip.  I still remember it...

[Kate-AHF]

It was a pity Mura.  We had the chance to take a boat ride through Trollfjord on an excursion, but decided to do something else because we were going though on the ship.  Bad decision.

 

Of course, this just means we'll have to go back! 😉

 

[amusea]

14 hours ago, Kate-AHF said:

It's not just emissions they are cracking down on.  We sailed on Seabourn Ovation in June to the North Cape.  We were supposed to sail into Trollfjord.... the entire ship was excited.  That afternoon the  captain announced that Norway had changed their minds, and now would not allow the Ovation to sail that fjord... they had quietly and without telling anyone changed the restriction to ships 185 meters or smaller. The Ovation is 215.

 

To compensate, the captain arranged for another evening of fjord cruising which was breathtaking (one of the most magical evenings we've spent on any cruise), and Seabourn issued every passenger a $150 OBC as an apology for missing Trollfjord.

I don't know about the explanation given to you but I sailed on the Seabourn Ovation this month and just returned a week ago.  We had a beautiful sailing into the Trollfjord which was a highlight of the cruise.  Here is a photo:

 

[Paulchili]

11 hours ago, amusea said:

We had a beautiful sailing into the Trollfjord which was a highlight of the cruise.  Here is a photo:

How is it different from all the other fjords? This photo doesn’t show it to be “special”.

[LHT28]

3 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

How is it different from all the other fjords? This photo doesn’t show it to be “special”.

maybe narrower or steeper sides  than the couple we have been in ???

[amusea]

To answer the question about Trollfjord, it has the narrowest opening for entrance and exit of any fjord in Norway as can be seen in the photo.  I first cruised into the fjord on a hurtigruten ship named Trollfjord about 8 years ago and when going through that narrow opening you could just about touch each side of the fjord from the ship.  You can't go 'through' the fjord.  After entering the ship must turn around a go out the same way it came in.   The photo shows the Ovation leaving the fjord.  The height of the cliffs is exaggerated by the narrowness of the fjord and it is a very dramatic sail-in and sail out.  The entry to the fjord is never a guarantee regardless of itinerary.  Weather and other factors can cause a cancellation of sailing into the fjord.

[Kate-AHF]

13 hours ago, amusea said:

I don't know about the explanation given to you but I sailed on the Seabourn Ovation this month and just returned a week ago.  We had a beautiful sailing into the Trollfjord which was a highlight of the cruise.  Here is a photo:

 

 

Ummm....  I guess i'm happy for you?  That said, I'd REALLY like to know why this "decree" was reversed.

[Kate-AHF]

1 hour ago, amusea said:

  Weather and other factors can cause a cancellation of sailing into the fjord.

 

Of course it is - that's true of every cruise and every port.  But Capt. Pedder specifically stated the weather was ideal, and he had gotten Seattle involved all day to try to change the outcome.  It was the first time I've ever heard a Captain's announcement where they actually sounded pissed off.

[amusea]

I have been on ships that traversed the fjords even in wet and windy weather because they are deep but also wide.  The Trollfjord has much stricter parameters similar to those for ships attempting to enter the port of Bermuda in bad weather.  Perhaps because the two new Seabourn ships are bigger there was more concern than there had been with the older ships with smaller dimensions.  It is still hard to fathom the change from one month to the next.