How we can help Celebrity

[OuiOnboard]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

hcat- In a way this is like a pyramid scheme.  The cash collected by Celebrity from those of us paying deposits now is being used to refund people owed their deposits.  The cycle continues.

That is why I think that really strong support for Celebrity could be exercised by booking lots of cruises with payment in full. That would work so much better than just putting up a deposit.

[hcat]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

hcat- In a way this is like a pyramid scheme.  The cash collected by Celebrity from those of us paying deposits now is being used to refund people owed their deposits.  The cycle continues.

Guess it works until the pyramid collapses!

 

We are doing our part  to help X ( ha ha) by keeping one res alive...mostly for  selfish reasons b/c we got  good fare for a suite, it  does not require air flights,  and  we have a FCC to  use up.( main reason)

 

Does  anyone know if medvac  and repatriation of remains ins  cover Pandemics?

[clojacks]

21 minutes ago, OuiOnboard said:

That is why I think that really strong support for Celebrity could be exercised by booking lots of cruises with payment in full. That would work so much better than just putting up a deposit.

I wish I could figure out if this is meant as sarcasm or is serious???

[BigAl94]

22 minutes ago, OuiOnboard said:

That is why I think that really strong support for Celebrity could be exercised by booking lots of cruises with payment in full. That would work so much better than just putting up a deposit.

I presume that was tongue in cheek!

[OuiOnboard]

4 minutes ago, BigAl94 said:

I presume that was tongue in cheek!

I'm referring to what I think is the best way for strong supporters of Celebrity to show strong support. No tongues in cheeks, but if the shoe fits.....

[Sticks5315]

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

hcat- In a way this is like a pyramid scheme.  The cash collected by Celebrity from those of us paying deposits now is being used to refund people owed their deposits.  The cycle continues.

You are correct! If you look at the financial statements for all the cruise lines that are publicly traded they all do it. You pay in December for a March  cruise, they use the money in December! If you really want to help them book a handful of cruises and pay in full up front! If you can rally enough people to do that they will have the cash for refunds.........just saying......I already have deposits on seven cruises and am still owed for a cancelled March cruise. I have done my part.  

[Pavovsky]

Someone suggested an online funding campaign. Anyone know if this was set up?

Edited April 19, 2020 by Pavovsky

[hcat]

2 hours ago, BigAl94 said:

This document is worth reading https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/04/15/2020-07930/no-sail-order-and-suspension-of-further-embarkation-notice-of-modification-and-extension-and-other

Thank you for posting this. 

 

Very worth reading once or even twice. It contains many meaningful findings, conclusions and specific directives.   It lays out specifics about named  ships and impacts to passengers and staff; as well as shoreside impacts  on medical and other  resources resulting from the " sick ships".

 

Not very positive for cruise lines! One wonders if  cruise Ships/ lines will ever meet current and ongoing requirements.

[Baron Barracuda]

22 hours ago, JonnyCT81 said:

 

 

The OP was trying to make this thread about something being positive - clearly relating to their love of cruising, but it's morphing into a debate about how modern day businesses conduct their finances.

 

Firstly to my comment about cash flow.   Just like in the great depression, there were the "runs on the banks".   If we all went to our bank and demanded all of our cash back, the banks wouldn't be able to give it to us, not because they don't have the cash, but because when you make a deposit in a bank, that cash is used for other things for the bank like loans, mortgages, LOC, etc.  They don't have all the cash on hand just sitting in a vault waiting for you to come get it.     This same principle is used in business - if celebrity is like any other service business, they probably pay their vendors on NET 30/60/90 day payments - meaning they still have to pay people who gave them the food, booze, fuel and other items from cruises that have long since ended.  This allows for cash flow to be mitigated and business to keep running.  Deposits and fares are only one cog in a vast financial machine of the company; however this is how business is done in all large corporations from chain restaurants, to cruise ships. 

 

Yes they secured additional funding, but they have fixed assets that require maintenance, fuel, and they still have to pay their staff.   They just furloughed 25% of their staff, due in part that they need to stop the bleeding and keep cash running - the day you can't make payroll is the day you file for bankruptcy.  No one was planning for this to happen and IMHO they are doing the right thing by cancelling cruises until June, and I expect this to be pushed out again.

 

You WILL get your money back, and this WILL pass - I get that no one likes waiting for their money to come back, but they are doing what is financially right for the company by staggering refunds and offering a 25% bonus to take FCC.  Again, your patience is the best thing that you can do for both your TA and X.  I am doing my part to support not only X but my sanity and have booked vacations with them through 2022.  I'm planning on getting back out on the open sea with an Aperol Spritz in my hand as soon as this is all over. 

 

Disagree.  If this is a run on the bank, it's a bank currently flush with cash.  Right now they do have money sitting in the vault ready for you to come and get it.  After fully drawing down those lines of credit RCL indicated they have enough cash to carry them into 2021.  Their cash flow projections must have anticipated the current high level of customer refunds.  So by implication those $ billions sitting available in the bank are sufficient to pay all 2020 expenses plus refunds.  No justification then for staggering refunds.  The only excuse I might give them is they are currently overwhelmed by the volume of refund requests.  

[paulh84]

15 hours ago, hcat said:

You are in essence floating them a no interest loan until they cancel and then process the refund!  

 

I think  most cruisers had no clue  ( or concern) that deposits were used for ongoing operations without a rainy day plan!  The bubble has burst....

 But they do have a rainy day fund. That fund is in action or the would have closed shop by now. 
 

This whole hysteria of them having a conspiracy plan to ‘use your money’ and ‘floating them a loan’ is how business works. What do you do when you book airline tickets in advance? Hotel rooms? Pay your insurance premiums? Why do companies have large lines of credit for operating expense? 
 

Someone earlier posted in detail about how credit charges and refunds actually work. Good info. They can’t just simply push a button and issue thousands upon thousands of refunds. Some get FCC’s, some get refunds, some get partial refunds, some used multiple cards, different countries, different banks, the list goes on. 
 

The more secure way to do would be under a Viking style system that requires full payment far in advance...but is that what people want or do they want flexibility? 

[ECCruise]

22 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

Someone earlier posted in detail about how credit charges and refunds actually work. Good info. They can’t just simply push a button and issue thousands upon thousands of refunds. Some get FCC’s, some get refunds, some get partial refunds, some used multiple cards, different countries, different banks, the list goes on. 
 

As someone who had a merchant processing account for many years, it is NOT that complicated.  Yes, it takes a few minutes of key entry per account.  Done.  When the batch is closed daily the customer will see the refund to their account the very next day.  No rocket science involved.

 

More importantly, please direct me to the area where I can see the people getting refunds.  

Cause I don't see virtually anyone on the numerous threads referencing the refund process getting them.  Including March cancellations.  More and more people are contesting Credit Card charges to get their money back because they have waited an inordinate amount of time.  One that I know of had to start filing in small claims court (and sending the filing notice to them) before they got a refund.  

FCCs?  Sure.  We got one on Friday.  They don't cost the cruise line a dime.

Edited April 19, 2020 by ECCruise

[hcat]

38 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

As someone who had a merchant processing account for many years, it is NOT that complicated.  Yes, it takes a few minutes of key entry per account.  Done.  When the batch is closed daily the customer will see the refund to their account the very next day.  No rocket science involved.

 

More importantly, please direct me to the area where I can see the people getting refunds.  

Cause I don't see virtually anyone on the numerous threads referencing the refund process getting them.  Including March cancellations.  More and more people are contesting Credit Card charges to get their money back because they have waited an inordinate amount of time.  One that I know of had to start filing in small claims court (and sending the filing notice to them) before they got a refund.  

FCCs?  Sure.  We got one on Friday.  They don't cost the cruise line a dime.

Seems that by filing a dispute, it starts a period of time wherein  the cruise line can ignore, agree  to the challenge, or substantiate the disputed charge. If they do not substantiate in the time frame, .the dispute is deemed  resolved in your favor.  Maybe filing a dispute speeds things up.....???

 

We received one refund  and one provisional so far.  And we have a  deposit refund request that  we will wait 45 days on to see what happens. The Celebrity process is slow and murky.  Refunds of a fully refundable deposit seem to wait in line with more complicated files. Not sure why they cannot  go in the "quick pile" while others get passed on for  closer review, thus speeding things along and clearing the log jam.....  oh well...

 

 

[Quo Vadis?]

4 hours ago, BigAl94 said:

This document is worth reading https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/04/15/2020-07930/no-sail-order-and-suspension-of-further-embarkation-notice-of-modification-and-extension-and-other

A slight error, one that we have also seen handing the Apex to Carnival..

 

"There are a number of recent incidences of reported COVID-19 spread onboard cruise ships including the Costa Magica, Costa Favolosa, Celebrity Eclipse, Disney Wonder, Holland America Zaandam, and Celebrity Coral Princess. The Costa Magica and the Costa Favolosa, reported at least 88 ill crew members on board with respiratory symptoms of COVID-19."

 

Note Celebrity Coral Princess....