Flights by Celebrity and Non-refundable Condor ticket

[nyc2pdx]

Hi everyone,

 

Posting my experience from today with my tickets with Condor in an effort that it helps others.

 

I was booked on the Infinity transatlantic from Miami to Barcelona, departing April 25, 2020.  I had flights to Miami already, and used Flights by Celebrity for my flight home from Barcelona to Portland, Oregon.  I was booked non-refundable business class on Lufthansa from Barcelona to Frankfurt, Condor from Frankfurt to Seattle, and Alaska Airlines for the quick hop from Seattle to Portland.  Flight home was booked for 10 May. I went with Flights by Celebrity because I knew in past instances, if Celebrity canceled the cruise, I would get a refund on my non-refundable ticket...or so I thought.  They did this until mid April, and stopped.  

 

At booking, I was given a PNR code (set of 6 numbers/letters...the record locator) when I booked the flights, and I was able to bring up my reservations on Lufthansa and Condor websites.  Got my seats, etc...

 

Fast forward to a few weeks ago, Celebrity cancels the cruise.  The record locator no longer works on any website.  I read the letter from LLP and saw they were NOT going to refund my non-refundable ticket and instead I needed to go to the airline.  Well, what am I going to do with a $2100 voucher on Condor Airlines??  So, I knowing my rights under EC261, and the DOT, I knew I would be able to get a refund if the airline canceled the flights.  It was extremely likely after all that at least one of the flights would be canceled.

 

So I waited and checked the flight schedules every couple of days.  This morning, the flight from Barcelona to Frankfurt was canceled, so I called Celebrity Air/Flights by Celebrity to assert my rights under EC261.  (For those that do not know, this is the policy in the EU that states if you are flying within Europe, or from Europe to another country, and the airline cancels your flight, you are entitled to a refund regardless if the ticket was refundable or non-refundable.  I don't believe it covers flights TO the EU, only if you originate in the EU.)

 

Here is where the adventure begins.  Celebrity Air told me that indeed my flights were canceled and I could get a voucher from the airline.  I stopped him and said "I want to assert my rights under EC261 which states if the airline cancels the flights, I am entitled to a full refund".  He paused, then responded "You are correct.  However, we have to get a refund from Condor for your ticket before we can refund you.  Please call Condor and tell them to initiate a refund."  He said I will need my ticket number which he gave me.  He gave me a number for Condor and I called.

 

I called 866-960-7915 and was transferred to their reservations line in Germany.  It was a pretty poor connection.  The poor customer service rep was trying hard to communicate, but with the poor line quality and the language barrier, we weren't getting far.  She kept asking me for my confirmation number (PNR) which I gave to her.  She said "this reservation is canceled.  I cannot do anything.  It is already canceled.  Call your travel agent."

 

So I called Celebrity back.  I spoke to a man who explained things to me.  He said that with all tickets, you can always take the 'voucher' offer and this is done through the airline.  But, if you want a refund, you have to get a waiver code from the airline which locks the reservation for vouchering and sets it for a refund.  Otherwise, without the waiver code, you could get a voucher for $2100 from Condor and Celebrity would refund you the $2100.  So, we need the waiver code.  He said that code has to come from Condor, and said if Condor can give me that code, or if they give me some sort of proof the ticket was being refunded back to Celebrity, he would either use the waiver code, or override it based on the proof.  Nice guy, and I appreciated the education...these battles are always better resolved when you know what you are working with!

 

I called Condor back.  Got a more knowledgeable representative.  He said that on his end, he can only see reservations by the PNR locator.  He said when he puts in my PNR locator, it shows the reservation has been canceled and there is nothing he can do with it (literally, there are no options on his end).  But, he knows of the waiver code...he said that the helpdesk at Condor can provide it to the TA and they can be reached by called +49 61 71 69 88 970.  He said only the TA could call, they would not speak to me...he said they will ask for specific information only the TA would know and understand.  He said that if Celebrity (my TA to them) calls the Condor Helpdesk, they can give them the waiver code.  Thanked him.  Back to Celebrity.

 

I called Celebrity again and the agent said Celebrity does not call airlines, it is up to the passengers to call.  I remained calm.  I said to her that I understand these are unprecedented times and everything is thrown into shambles.  I said to her that I am feeling frustrated because I partnered with Celebrity as my TA and send Celebrity my money.  Now I am doing all the leg work myself, and I am the customer-I don't understand the internal workings of airline ticketing and how the airline gets paid, blah blah blah.  This is why I hired Celebrity to do this for me, which they did in purchasing the ticket.  However, it is frustrating that I am being left to my own devices.  I told her that she did nothing wrong, but I would like to speak to a manager.  She put me on hold.

 

A long hold.  like 15 mins hold.

 

Then she came back and said that she spoke to a supervisor and the supervisor contacted the Celebrity Air Reservations Helpdesk.  She said that once they did that, they found that Condor had already sent the money back to Celebrity, and they are working through the massive stack of refunds.  She said my refund is in there, but it might be 1 to 2 billing cycles before I see it on my card.  She assured me it is indeed just waiting to be processed, but with the massive backlog, it will take some time.  I thanked her for helping me.

 

So, lesson learned to pass on:  Push with Celebrity.  If you want a voucher for future travel on the airline, deal with the airline.  But if you want a refund and you booked through Celebrity Air, refundable or not, the refund will come from Celebrity and the airline likely won't be able to do much unless they give you the waiver code.  Condor wouldn't give it to me, but if you can get it, that could be your ticket to a full refund. Condor has no way to refund me as they do not have my card details...Celebrity does.

 

Sorry so long, but I wanted to give as much info as possible in case it helps others.  Good luck!

[BEAV]

29 minutes ago, nyc2pdx said:

I called Celebrity again and the agent said Celebrity does not call airlines, it is up to the passengers to call.  I remained calm.  I said to her that I understand these are unprecedented times and everything is thrown into shambles.  I said to her that I am feeling frustrated because I partnered with Celebrity as my TA and send Celebrity my money.  Now I am doing all the leg work myself, and I am the customer-I don't understand the internal workings of airline ticketing and how the airline gets paid, blah blah blah.  This is why I hired Celebrity to do this for me, which they did in purchasing the ticket.  However, it is frustrating that I am being left to my own devices.  I told her that she did nothing wrong, but I would like to speak to a manager.  She put me on hold.

 

Thank you for your detailed post. 

 

Yours is just one of many posts I've read of Flights by Celebrity passing off their customers to the airlines when things go awry. A ridiculous game of ping pong. I'm glad you held your ground because Flights by Celebrity IS the Travel Agent between you and the airlines. 

 

And I'm glad you knew your rights under EC261 and the United States DOT (Department of Transportation) that you were entitled to a refund of your non-refundable ticket since it was the airline that cancelled the flight.  Were you also aware that the DOT requires an airline, travel agency or on-line travel agency to refund your ticket within 7 days of cancelling?

 

I booked my air with Flights by Celebrity and cancelled on March 20. But I had purchased a fully refundable ticket. But even so, I'm still waiting on the refund. I'm reading a growing number of posts suggesting that Celebrity is deliberately sitting on the money and waiting a good length of time to refund the customer for cash flow purposes. Since Celebrity admitted to you they've already received the money from Condor, but to expect a delay before they pass it on to you is just more proof to me that it is deliberate on their part. 

 

Thanks again, and please keep us updated. 

[nyc2pdx]

1 minute ago, BEAV said:

 

Thank you for your detailed post. 

 

Yours is just one of many posts I've read of Flights by Celebrity passing off their customers to the airlines when things go awry. A ridiculous game of ping pong. I'm glad you held your ground because Flights by Celebrity IS the Travel Agent between you and the airlines. 

 

And I'm glad you knew your rights under EC261 and the United States DOT (Department of Transportation) that you were entitled to a refund of your non-refundable ticket since it was the airline that cancelled the flight.  Were you also aware that the DOT requires an airline, travel agency or on-line travel agency to refund your ticket within 7 days of cancelling?

 

I booked my air with Flights by Celebrity and cancelled on March 20. But I had purchased a fully refundable ticket. But even so, I'm still waiting on the refund. I'm reading a growing number of posts suggesting that Celebrity is deliberately sitting on the money and waiting a good length of time to refund the customer for cash flow purposes. Since Celebrity admitted to you they've already received the money from Condor, but to expect a delay before they pass it on to you is just more proof to me that it is deliberate on their part. 

 

Thanks again, and please keep us updated. 

Yep, they were absolutely going to pass me off to Condor for a voucher..and hope I gave up.  As for the time to get the refund...I'm not expecting anything soon, but as long as I do get it.  EC261 is a powerful regulation and I've used it several times with delays, etc...the airlines bank on the consumer not knowing their rights.  It would be great to see that in the US outside of pandemics.  

 

Be well and virus free!

[BEAV]

How long ago did you purchase your air? 

 

Come Monday, it will be 30 days since I cancelled my refundable air with Flights by Celebrity. Since DOT requires they refund within 7 days, if I don't have the refund by Monday, I will protest the transaction with my credit card company. I purchased my air on March 5, so I'm still within the timeframe my credit card allows to protest a purchase. I've been more than patient and 30 days will be my cut off, armed with DOT rules on my side. 

[nyc2pdx]

I purchased my air the first week in March.

[waterbug123]

8 hours ago, nyc2pdx said:

 EC261.  (For those that do not know, this is the policy in the EU that states if you are flying within Europe, or from Europe to another country, and the airline cancels your flight, you are entitled to a refund regardless if the ticket was refundable or non-refundable.  I don't believe it covers flights TO the EU, only if you originate in the EU.)

 

 

Not quite. It DOES cover flights TO the EU from the US for example, IF the flight is operated by a carrier based in the EU.  So a flight from Atlanta to Paris operated by Delta doesn't qualify, but a flight from Atlanta to Paris operated by Air France does.  In addition to canceled flights, it also covers situations in which the passenger is denied boarding (i.e. the flight is oversold) as well as significant flight delays.

[Ontario Cruiser]

You are correct Two years ago our flight from Toronto to Barcelona with KLM when we missed the connection from Amsterdam due to the flight from Toronto was 2 hrs late leaving.

Thanks to this post I am sending the info to Celebrity I have the waiver code which I gave them when Celebrity cancelled and before Westjet cancelled the flight

Thanks for the information OntarioCruiser

[cjcruiser27]

1 hour ago, waterbug123 said:

 

Not quite. It DOES cover flights TO the EU from the US for example, IF the flight is operated by a carrier based in the EU.  So a flight from Atlanta to Paris operated by Delta doesn't qualify, but a flight from Atlanta to Paris operated by Air France does.  In addition to canceled flights, it also covers situations in which the passenger is denied boarding (i.e. the flight is oversold) as well as significant flight delays.

Thanks for the info. good to know!

[nyc2pdx]

1 hour ago, waterbug123 said:

 

Not quite. It DOES cover flights TO the EU from the US for example, IF the flight is operated by a carrier based in the EU.  So a flight from Atlanta to Paris operated by Delta doesn't qualify, but a flight from Atlanta to Paris operated by Air France does.  In addition to canceled flights, it also covers situations in which the passenger is denied boarding (i.e. the flight is oversold) as well as significant flight delays.

Great to know!  Thanks!

[az_tchr]

10 hours ago, nyc2pdx said:

Hi everyone,

 

Posting my experience from today with my tickets with Condor in an effort that it helps others.

 

I was booked on the Infinity transatlantic from Miami to Barcelona, departing April 25, 2020.  I had flights to Miami already, and used Flights by Celebrity for my flight home from Barcelona to Portland, Oregon.  I was booked non-refundable business class on Lufthansa from Barcelona to Frankfurt, Condor from Frankfurt to Seattle, and Alaska Airlines for the quick hop from Seattle to Portland.  Flight home was booked for 10 May. I went with Flights by Celebrity because I knew in past instances, if Celebrity canceled the cruise, I would get a refund on my non-refundable ticket...or so I thought.  They did this until mid April, and stopped.  

 

At booking, I was given a PNR code (set of 6 numbers/letters...the record locator) when I booked the flights, and I was able to bring up my reservations on Lufthansa and Condor websites.  Got my seats, etc...

 

Fast forward to a few weeks ago, Celebrity cancels the cruise.  The record locator no longer works on any website.  I read the letter from LLP and saw they were NOT going to refund my non-refundable ticket and instead I needed to go to the airline.  Well, what am I going to do with a $2100 voucher on Condor Airlines??  So, I knowing my rights under EC261, and the DOT, I knew I would be able to get a refund if the airline canceled the flights.  It was extremely likely after all that at least one of the flights would be canceled.

 

So I waited and checked the flight schedules every couple of days.  This morning, the flight from Barcelona to Frankfurt was canceled, so I called Celebrity Air/Flights by Celebrity to assert my rights under EC261.  (For those that do not know, this is the policy in the EU that states if you are flying within Europe, or from Europe to another country, and the airline cancels your flight, you are entitled to a refund regardless if the ticket was refundable or non-refundable.  I don't believe it covers flights TO the EU, only if you originate in the EU.)

 

Here is where the adventure begins.  Celebrity Air told me that indeed my flights were canceled and I could get a voucher from the airline.  I stopped him and said "I want to assert my rights under EC261 which states if the airline cancels the flights, I am entitled to a full refund".  He paused, then responded "You are correct.  However, we have to get a refund from Condor for your ticket before we can refund you.  Please call Condor and tell them to initiate a refund."  He said I will need my ticket number which he gave me.  He gave me a number for Condor and I called.

 

I called 866-960-7915 and was transferred to their reservations line in Germany.  It was a pretty poor connection.  The poor customer service rep was trying hard to communicate, but with the poor line quality and the language barrier, we weren't getting far.  She kept asking me for my confirmation number (PNR) which I gave to her.  She said "this reservation is canceled.  I cannot do anything.  It is already canceled.  Call your travel agent."

 

So I called Celebrity back.  I spoke to a man who explained things to me.  He said that with all tickets, you can always take the 'voucher' offer and this is done through the airline.  But, if you want a refund, you have to get a waiver code from the airline which locks the reservation for vouchering and sets it for a refund.  Otherwise, without the waiver code, you could get a voucher for $2100 from Condor and Celebrity would refund you the $2100.  So, we need the waiver code.  He said that code has to come from Condor, and said if Condor can give me that code, or if they give me some sort of proof the ticket was being refunded back to Celebrity, he would either use the waiver code, or override it based on the proof.  Nice guy, and I appreciated the education...these battles are always better resolved when you know what you are working with!

 

I called Condor back.  Got a more knowledgeable representative.  He said that on his end, he can only see reservations by the PNR locator.  He said when he puts in my PNR locator, it shows the reservation has been canceled and there is nothing he can do with it (literally, there are no options on his end).  But, he knows of the waiver code...he said that the helpdesk at Condor can provide it to the TA and they can be reached by called +49 61 71 69 88 970.  He said only the TA could call, they would not speak to me...he said they will ask for specific information only the TA would know and understand.  He said that if Celebrity (my TA to them) calls the Condor Helpdesk, they can give them the waiver code.  Thanked him.  Back to Celebrity.

 

I called Celebrity again and the agent said Celebrity does not call airlines, it is up to the passengers to call.  I remained calm.  I said to her that I understand these are unprecedented times and everything is thrown into shambles.  I said to her that I am feeling frustrated because I partnered with Celebrity as my TA and send Celebrity my money.  Now I am doing all the leg work myself, and I am the customer-I don't understand the internal workings of airline ticketing and how the airline gets paid, blah blah blah.  This is why I hired Celebrity to do this for me, which they did in purchasing the ticket.  However, it is frustrating that I am being left to my own devices.  I told her that she did nothing wrong, but I would like to speak to a manager.  She put me on hold.

 

A long hold.  like 15 mins hold.

 

Then she came back and said that she spoke to a supervisor and the supervisor contacted the Celebrity Air Reservations Helpdesk.  She said that once they did that, they found that Condor had already sent the money back to Celebrity, and they are working through the massive stack of refunds.  She said my refund is in there, but it might be 1 to 2 billing cycles before I see it on my card.  She assured me it is indeed just waiting to be processed, but with the massive backlog, it will take some time.  I thanked her for helping me.

 

So, lesson learned to pass on:  Push with Celebrity.  If you want a voucher for future travel on the airline, deal with the airline.  But if you want a refund and you booked through Celebrity Air, refundable or not, the refund will come from Celebrity and the airline likely won't be able to do much unless they give you the waiver code.  Condor wouldn't give it to me, but if you can get it, that could be your ticket to a full refund. Condor has no way to refund me as they do not have my card details...Celebrity does.

 

Sorry so long, but I wanted to give as much info as possible in case it helps others.  Good luck!

Not trying to be anything except helpful.  The rule for flights is pretty much the same in Both North America and Europe.  If a flight is cancelled or an International flight changed by over 4 hours it becomes refundable.  Condos is an issue as they recently were in bankruptcy - might still be.  Then you need to be patient.  To the OP, waiting on hold for 15 minutes is something most of us would pray for.  United Airlines recently has a 21 HOUR hold time.

Relax.

[BEAV]

nyc2pdx,

 

Just wondering if you’ve had any luck with your refund?

[nyc2pdx]

no refund yet 😞  but I'm hopeful!!

[BEAV]

Continued good luck! 🤞

[steamboats]

BA only offered a voucher for a flight they´ve cancelled. I have three cancelled flights with LH and no money back so far although they have to reimburse you within a 7 day period. Currently LH is offering a 50 Euro voucher plus rebooking on another flight (even with another destination). But no money back...

 

Condor just received a financial help by the German government. Condor actually is bankrupt and LOT was announced as buyer - but LOT got out when Covid-19 set in. LH is still not sure whether to get financial help or file for bankruptcy...

 

steamboats

[hcat]

On 4/18/2020 at 12:36 AM, nyc2pdx said:

Yep, they were absolutely going to pass me off to Condor for a voucher..and hope I gave up.  As for the time to get the refund...I'm not expecting anything soon, but as long as I do get it.  EC261 is a powerful regulation and I've used it several times with delays, etc...the airlines bank on the consumer not knowing their rights.  It would be great to see that in the US outside of pandemics.  

 

Be well and virus free!

Flights by Celebrity sounds like an ineffective TA..but I  know there are some  positives  from using them...getting such a run around is really not acceptable. Hope it all works out soon.