Carnival's Status on Federal Judge's Order

[mondello]

I read the major cruise lines have enough cash reserves to survive another 15 months of this current shutdown. Surely Carnival can come up with a plan and timeline of when they expect to comply with environmental regulations.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, mondello said:

I read the major cruise lines have enough cash reserves to survive another 15 months of this current shutdown. Surely Carnival can come up with a plan and timeline of when they expect to comply with environmental regulations.

They certainly could, if they thought it was important.

[BlerkOne]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, they have, and they have all turned themselves around because of being "busted".  Carnival is the outlier in being found time and time again ranging over decades, many times being found having done the same thing repeatedly.  I will wait on the next annual auditor's report, but fully expect there to be many violations across the fleet, and a continued condemnation of the corporate culture.

It will be interesting to see if the punishment is the same for other cruise lines the next time they are caught.

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

It will be interesting to see if the punishment is the same for other cruise lines the next time they are caught.

The probation terms, and the compliance measures given to Carnival were developed by one of the companies that I mentioned that had been on DOJ probation, and are considered by DOJ to be the "gold standard", and every probation is based on the same requirements.  The level of fine would depend on how long it had been between known violations, how numerous the violations were, and how serious each violation is.  Typically, the fine for the latest offender is a "new record" high, which was the case with Carnival when originally placed on probation, and typically the fine for continued violation while under probation is set at many times higher, yet Carnival was assessed only half of the original fine.  This process is not limited to cruise lines, many shipping companies have been convicted and placed on DOJ probation, just like Carnival, but even across the larger maritime industry, Carnival stands out due to the vast scope of violations, and their repetitiveness, even while under inspection by auditors.

[Earthworm Jim]

On 3/26/2021 at 8:23 PM, BlerkOne said:

Well, she is 74-75 years old and will retire someday.

 

 

Would the retirement of the judge be relevant? Certainly any court orders she issued would stand unless another judge later overturned them. Is there reason to believe she is being harder on Carnival than the typical federal judge would be?

[rolloman]

It may reach a point shortly where any Federal suggestion or Federal entity's suggestion will be of zero importance and the decision of our Florida governor will be all that matters.

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

Would the retirement of the judge be relevant? Certainly any court orders she issued would stand unless another judge later overturned them. Is there reason to believe she is being harder on Carnival than the typical federal judge would be?

Some on CC claim, without proof, that the Federal Government has it in for cruise lines. Once upon a time it was thought the judge was going to retire and the case go away. But that was before her ruling. I doubt it will be overturned, but it could be modified. I don't think anyone says Carnival wasn't asking for it.

 

[ProgRockCruiser]

13 hours ago, rolloman said:

It may reach a point shortly where any Federal suggestion or Federal entity's suggestion will be of zero importance and the decision of our Florida governor will be all that matters.

How did you come to that conclusion?  The violations (in places like Alaska) are Federal domain ("US territorial waters" etc), not a Florida jurisdiction.

 

The legal cases are handled in FL because Carnival Corp is based in Miami.

[chengkp75]

47 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

How did you come to that conclusion?  The violations (in places like Alaska) are Federal domain ("US territorial waters" etc), not a Florida jurisdiction.

 

The legal cases are handled in FL because Carnival Corp is based in Miami.

Not only are they federal, but they are admiralty, or maritime, law, and only certain state courts have the ability to hear admiralty cases.

[CoffeeGoddess]

16 hours ago, rolloman said:

It may reach a point shortly where any Federal suggestion or Federal entity's suggestion will be of zero importance and the decision of our Florida governor will be all that matters.