Changes to Covid/Mask policies --Apex

[yorky]

50 minutes ago, Lagranger36 said:

Hundreds of thousands of people get hospitalized with the flu each year yet we’re not masking up for that. The R0 and lethality of COVID while fully vaccinated is lower than that of most strains of the flu.  We can’t eradicate the flu and we probably won’t eradicate COVID.

 

 At some point we need to accept a level of risk and move on from this. 

I’m simply stating the position on mask wearing in the UK as it stands, it’s seen as one of the best ways, along with social distancing to help avoid cross contamination. We have to wear our masks at work at all times when driving and are still restricted to two individuals in a car with one sitting in the back seat. We are of course doing well on vaccinations but until everyone that wants to be vaccinated is I don’t see the rules on mask wearing changing. Even though I’ve had both jabs I’m happy to carry on wearing a mask if it helps stop me from passing it on to others, there is still not enough evidence to show you can’t still be a carrier of the virus yet show no symptoms yourself. I believe will will need to live with it, but we need to get everyone vaccinated before we drop our guard in my view.

[harkinmr]

30 minutes ago, Lagranger36 said:

Ever hear of “obligation to dissent?”  You see something nonsensical, you speak up.  That’s all this is, I don’t expect the rule to change. If we all did that we’d have a much better critical thinking apparatus in this country. 

Yes I've heard of it, and I think you may be taking it out of context.  It is a managerial concept that supports those who who would challenge ideas or policies in a corporate setting for the betterment of the company.  And the dissenter doesn't always win and many times there can be negative consequences.

 

There is no obligation to speak up about government policies.  We have a right, but not an obligation, to express our dissent in this country (hopefully in an appropriate manner) and back it up with our vote.  I don't think we have an obligation to dissent against policies of other governments, or frankly against companies that are complying with them.  We can tell them we don't like them, but we still have to comply. 

 

Many folks with just grumble about these APEX protocols.  Many will just go happily along and comply.  And some might fight tooth and nail.  I don't think any of these approaches is better or going to be more effective than any other.  Things are what they are.

Edited June 17, 2021 by harkinmr

[CalTexCruiser]

1 hour ago, Bruin Steve said:

 

 

 

And these are not the only changes we are seeing.  We are also now being required to use Celebrity Shorexes only in some ports...and there are constant late changes to some of the shore excursions themselves...and never for the better.  This week we received a notification that our "Best of Mykonos" shorex would no longer have the "Folkloric Show".  I can understand that if the outfit providing the show is not performing due to Covid, but there is also no replacement activity announced and no change of price.  Even so, I am willing to accept it, it's not a major change.  However today, we were informed that our Pyrgos Village, Mezes and Wine excursion in Santorini will no longer include the cable car.  No explanation of how we get back to the ship--whether we are somehow required to just get back on a bus and be returned to the ship and day in Santorini over at 11:30...or do we get back to the ship somehow on our own?  Someone on our Roll Call actually found that the cable car IS actually operating.  But Celebrity told us it was Covid related???  There is really no excuse for not providing us with complete information...

 

 

Well, this sucks.  Things are becoming more restrictive as we get closer.

 

And I just bought business class seats at a great price yesterday too.  Oh well.

[harkinmr]

11 minutes ago, CalTexCruiser said:

 

Well, this sucks.  Things are becoming more restrictive as we get closer.

 

And I just bought business class seats at a great price yesterday too.  Oh well.

Hopefully refundable?

[Lagranger36]

1 hour ago, yorky said:

I’m simply stating the position on mask wearing in the UK as it stands, it’s seen as one of the best ways, along with social distancing to help avoid cross contamination. We have to wear our masks at work at all times when driving and are still restricted to two individuals in a car with one sitting in the back seat. We are of course doing well on vaccinations but until everyone that wants to be vaccinated is I don’t see the rules on mask wearing changing. Even though I’ve had both jabs I’m happy to carry on wearing a mask if it helps stop me from passing it on to others, there is still not enough evidence to show you can’t still be a carrier of the virus yet show no symptoms yourself. I believe will will need to live with it, but we need to get everyone vaccinated before we drop our guard in my view.

It is patently false that there is not enough information on transmissibility.  There is ample evidence both empirical (studies of individuals shedding viruses and on outcomes (validated studies on spread of COVID in communities - the same way they confirmed vaccine efficacy). Try the CDC website.  Spreading this kind of information only prolongs the anxiety and discourages people to get vaccinated.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Lagranger36

[CalTexCruiser]

1 hour ago, harkinmr said:

Hopefully refundable?

 

Yes with $ 200 penalty pp after final payment, which for me is June 27--I'll be watching the first two Apex cruises with interest to decide whether or not I want to make final payment.

[Covepointcruiser]

We are traveling on Seabourn on 7/10 from Athens.   Yesterday they came out with the COVID rules but they said the rules were subject to change depending on the state of the Epidemic .   The ship is 100%vaccinated and we will be tested before we board.  You have to register with Greece before you leave and they will send you a QR code 24 hr. before your flight.   You must have physical proof of the COVID vaccination to present in Athens.  At embarkation you must also show physical proof of vaccination and a completed pre boarding health questionnaire.  On board you are encouraged to be with your cohorts, travel companions.  If not you must maintain a physical distance from others.  Masks are required in selected areas, must be at least double layered.   Seabourn shore excursions are encouraged.   Additional health screenings will be made as needed.   You will also be given an antigen or PCR on day 6 of your cruise.

 

This is a summary document as of 6/16 and subject to change.  Right now it’s better than we expected but we are keeping our fingers crossed.   Greece is not requiring passengers to take ship excursions.   Our cruise is only hitting Greek Islands and Cyprus.   We are on a B2B (different ports) as we would never repeat the same cruise.

[LGW59]

7 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

We are traveling on Seabourn on 7/10 from Athens.   Yesterday they came out with the COVID rules but they said the rules were subject to change depending on the state of the Epidemic .   The ship is 100%vaccinated and we will be tested before we board.  You have to register with Greece before you leave and they will send you a QR code 24 hr. before your flight.   You must have physical proof of the COVID vaccination to present in Athens.  At embarkation you must also show physical proof of vaccination and a completed pre boarding health questionnaire.  On board you are encouraged to be with your cohorts, travel companions.  If not you must maintain a physical distance from others.  Masks are required in selected areas, must be at least double layered.   Seabourn shore excursions are encouraged.   Additional health screenings will be made as needed.   You will also be given an antigen or PCR on day 6 of your cruise.

 

This is a summary document as of 6/16 and subject to change.  Right now it’s better than we expected but we are keeping our fingers crossed.   Greece is not requiring passengers to take ship excursions.   Our cruise is only hitting Greek Islands and Cyprus.   We are on a B2B (different ports) as we would never repeat the same cruise.

Sounds it’s going to be such a relaxing cruise vacation…

[Covepointcruiser]

Actually it will be.   We have a great wrap around aft balcony and we have reserved a cabana in their retreat area for the cruise.   There are only 15 cabanas, 2 people maximum.   You have two loungers, a TV, a large IPAD, a fully stocked refrigerator, unlimited Bollinger champagne and caviar, a special food and cocktail menu and staff and a concierge looking after us.   If we never get off the ship we will still be happy and relaxed.   Won’t need to wear masks in our private cabana but might have to wear them traveling from our suite to the retreat.   They are providing special Seabourn masks so maybe Celebrity will do likewise.

[little britain]

@Bruin Steve excellent post which sums up exactly the frustration of (most) of us.  If it wasn’t for you I wouldn’t have known about the  goalpost shifts since we booked.

 

Another shore excursions change….As you prepare for this exciting vacation, we need to inform you that the Pork Souvlaki in Pita Bread has been removed from A Walk Through Limassol tour due to COVID-19 restrictions. 🤷‍♀️
 

Thankfully now no requirements to take their excursions so I’ve cancelled ( not because of the lack of souvlaki; but because we never ever follow the lollipops!)

[yorky]

10 hours ago, Lagranger36 said:

It is patently false that there is not enough information on transmissibility.  There is ample evidence both empirical (studies of individuals shedding viruses and on outcomes (validated studies on spread of COVID in communities - the same way they confirmed vaccine efficacy). Try the CDC website.  Spreading this kind of information only prolongs the anxiety and discourages people to get vaccinated.

Well yes and no, there is plenty of studies showing it’s “unlikely” but not certain. The CDC made a decision but only time will tell whether it’s the correct one. As  always I believe the correct thing is get the vaccine and stay cautious, when the numbers drop to a low enough level and we have closer to full vaccinations then we can look at dropping social distancing and mask wearing, for me that’s the sensible course of action. When you’ve seen Covid close up ( my wife was the only member of her family not hospitalised or killed by it) you tend to take it very seriously.

Edited June 18, 2021 by yorky

[angelsil]

18 hours ago, Bruin Steve said:

It is hard to understand where Greece has any interest in requiring masks onboard while the ship is not in a Greek port.

 

This is where I'm at. I don't get the application of the mask ordinance on a fully-vaccinated ship. It just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not an anti-masker at all. I have no issue wearing them on shore or even indoors in situations where folks aren't vaccinated, even though I am myself. It doesn't stop me from vacationing as I did two vacations last year fully masked. But the whole point of having a vaccinated ship is to make masks and social distancing unnecessary.

 

18 hours ago, Bruin Steve said:

 This week we received a notification that our "Best of Mykonos" shorex would no longer have the "Folkloric Show". 

 

I was planning on booking this. It's not a deal breaker, but good to know. At least they're reaching out to you.

 

18 hours ago, Bruin Steve said:

It is harder to understand why Celebrity is not fully transparent in informing us:

1)  What changes to policy are occurring WHEN they occur.

2)  Complete information on shore excursions when changes are made

 

 

This - 100%. A lot of Celebrity apologists in this thread keep telling us to expect 'evolving situations' which is fair. But as things evolve, we aren't being told what and certainly not why. Is the masking rule on the ship a Greek requirement? We still don't know. It's all speculation in this thread.

 

The lack of communication creates confusion and distrust. The onus here is on the company to proactively inform their customers when changes are happening and, if they're being transparent, the reason behind the change. If I weren't on this board, I doubt I would even know that masks were being required on the ship because when I booked it the company line was very different. That's the level of poor communication we're dealing with and it speaks poorly to Celebrity.

[Lagranger36]

17 minutes ago, angelsil said:

 

This is where I'm at. I don't get the application of the mask ordinance on a fully-vaccinated ship. It just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not an anti-masker at all. I have no issue wearing them on shore or even indoors in situations where folks aren't vaccinated, even though I am myself. It doesn't stop me from vacationing as I did two vacations last year fully masked. But the whole point of having a vaccinated ship is to make masks and social distancing unnecessary.

 

 

I was planning on booking this. It's not a deal breaker, but good to know. At least they're reaching out to you.

 

 

This - 100%. A lot of Celebrity apologists in this thread keep telling us to expect 'evolving situations' which is fair. But as things evolve, we aren't being told what and certainly not why. Is the masking rule on the ship a Greek requirement? We still don't know. It's all speculation in this thread.

 

The lack of communication creates confusion and distrust. The onus here is on the company to proactively inform their customers when changes are happening and, if they're being transparent, the reason behind the change. If I weren't on this board, I doubt I would even know that masks were being required on the ship because when I booked it the company line was very different. That's the level of poor communication we're dealing with and it speaks poorly to Celebrity.

I agree re: your points on Celebrity.  The way it was communicated on June 9 did not really suggest it was a ‘change’, despite their public messaging saying all cruises that were vaccinated would be mask free.  So, it’s unclear whether there’s a change in policy and why that is. Alternatively, it’s possible that was always the case (masks would be required on Greek home port cruises) and Celebrity made a mistake in their messaging or deliberately chose not to be transparent. 
 

Either way, there are likely hundreds of people who booked between early May and early June and made plans expecting an unmasked cruise. 

[little britain]

I’ve actually just read all press articles from when the ship was announced to be in Athens (March 25th)…. And not one of them says that the cruises were mask free. 
https://www.celebritycruisespresscenter.com/press-release/1209/celebrity-cruises-announces-summer-world-debut-in-greece-for-highly-anticipated-celebrity-apex-/

[Fouremco]

22 hours ago, Bruin Steve said:

It is hard to understand where Greece has any interest in requiring masks onboard while the ship is not in a Greek port

The same reason that the CDC has an interest in health and safety measures aboard cruise ships sailing from a US homeport, an interest that is never limited to US port days. One can disagree with some of the requirements, but the role of the CDC and its Greek counterpart (if there is in fact a direct equivalent) is quite understandable IMO.

[Bruin Steve]

39 minutes ago, little britain said:

I’ve actually just read all press articles from when the ship was announced to be in Athens (March 25th)…. And not one of them says that the cruises were mask free. 
https://www.celebritycruisespresscenter.com/press-release/1209/celebrity-cruises-announces-summer-world-debut-in-greece-for-highly-anticipated-celebrity-apex-/

It was not a "press release"...It was directly on the Celebrity website under "Athens Travel Requirements"...The page was CHANGED on June 9...and those changes were the new mask requirements and the new shore excursion requirement for Ashdod/Haifa.  The prior version SPECIFICALLY said that vaccinated persons would NOT be required to wear masks while onboard however, while in port would be subject to local requirements.  They took that down and replaced it with the new harsher version on June 9.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Bruin Steve