Star-Barcelona boarding

[KeithJenner]

The 14 day requirement for the Booster is by no means clear. Whilst it mentions it on the document above (I don’t know where that comes from), this is what it says on the EU website:

 

“Is there a “waiting period” of 14 days before my booster dose will be accepted?

No – EU Digital COVID Certificates issued for booster doses are recognised immediately, without a 14-day waiting period.”
 

I have done quite a bit of research on this point, and there is very little comment anywhere on whether the 14 day terms apply with the booster. The above was one of the only things I found which specifically mentions it. My conclusion before seeing the document posted above was that the 14 days didn’t apply to the booster in Europe.

 

if the document that has been posted above comes from the port then I’m

not convinced that they haven’t got it wrong.

 

I do have some sympathy with peoples situation if they were denied entry on those grounds (although I would have been very nervous myself travelling in such a situation - like many we made sure that we were all fully boosted well in advance of any such timeline, just in case). These things really should be clearer.

[KeithJenner]

4 hours ago, Jkellen said:

Not to be difficult, but I booked NCL's Baltic cruise on the Getaway on Sunday.  The cruise leaves in May. I specifically asked the NCL employee what the requirements were for boosters and he said they have had no problems with European sailings and no one is asking for a booster so....  I can see the frustration for the OP. Right now all the countries we are going to for that cruise have stopped all Covid restrictions, but this person's story does make me nervous.  I did buy cancel for any reason insurance, but still.

We are all nervous, but that isn’t my point.

 

I was talking about inconsistencies in the messages from people who were denied boarding. I have seen lots of references to NCL having changed things over the weekend. People have posted the documents they were given at the port which references the potential need for a booster saying that NCL have only just added that, but it has in fact been on the website for weeks, and that exact wording is in the email I received on 14th March. There was no change to that part over the weekend.

 

What people are told by NCL phone staff is another matter completely. Never, ever take what you are told by them as definitive. History shows that they are inconsistent and very often inaccurate. It is nothing to do with my point though.

[KeithJenner]

Regarding who made the call, we really don’t know at the moment (and very possibly never will).

 

The fact that the denial letter was handed out by NCL doesn’t say anything about who’s decision it was, in my opinion. People were the customers of NCL and I would expect NCL to break the news regardless of who made the decision.

[steamboats]

Just to sum it up:

 

- the 270 day rule is in effect since February and there wasn´t any recent change (Italy wants their citizens to be boostered within 180 days)

- there is no 14 day waiting period after the booster (that´s because you got already your basic immunisation) - those 14 days mentioned in the screenshots are the 14 days after your basic immunisation meaning the second shot

- all over Europe you are not regarded as fully vaccinated anymore if your basic immunisation is older than 270 days - so after 270 days you need a booster (and it doesn´t matter when you got it... after 200 days, after 270 days, after 300 days - you just need it)

- there is no expiration date for the booster, so you´re fine even when your booster is older than 270 days (the 4th shot is no requirement in Europe yet)

 

steamboats

[KeithJenner]

13 minutes ago, steamboats said:

Just to sum it up:

 

- the 270 day rule is in effect since February and there wasn´t any recent change (Italy wants their citizens to be boostered within 180 days)

- there is no 14 day waiting period after the booster (that´s because you got already your basic immunisation) - those 14 days mentioned in the screenshots are the 14 days after your basic immunisation meaning the second shot

- all over Europe you are not regarded as fully vaccinated anymore if your basic immunisation is older than 270 days - so after 270 days you need a booster (and it doesn´t matter when you got it... after 200 days, after 270 days, after 300 days - you just need it)

- there is no expiration date for the booster, so you´re fine even when your booster is older than 270 days (the 4th shot is no requirement in Europe yet)

 

steamboats

Other than the uncertainty over the 14 day requirement for the Booster then that fairly well sums it up. It seems that people were denied embarkation based on the booster not being 14 days old but it isn’t clear whether whoever made that decision was correct.

[BermudaBound2014]

19 minutes ago, steamboats said:

 

- there is no 14 day waiting period after the booster (that´s because you got already your basic immunisation) - those 14 days mentioned in the screenshots are the 14 days after your basic immunisation meaning the second shot

-

 

 

steamboats

Thank you! Like you,  I can not find anything on a government site stating that In order for boosters to be valid, 14 days must elapse. Yet there were ncl passengers reporting that they were not allowed boarding on April 2 because their booster was given March 31 and not enough time had elapsed. 

 

in fact, most of the government sites specifically say 270 days after “primary vaccination”. Primary means the initial vaccination (not a booster).

 

 

1 hour ago, LNielsen said:

It means that your vaccination must be no older than 270 days and no sooner that 14 days prior to entry.  
 

This has been discussed at length on the Oceania forum, as well as an Oceania FB group, as cruisers booked with Oceania ran into the same issues this past weekend when attempting to board. 

 

I do see now where this particular cut and paste does state “effective immediately…. Booster at least 14 days prior to embarkation”. Can you provide a date and source for this cut and paste? I’m not trying to be difficult, it looks like maybe a snip from social media?  I can’t verify this anywhere. Again, I’m trying to clarify whether or not one must wait 14 days after a booster to embark. I’m not questioning the booster requirement itself, just the timeline. 

Edited April 6, 2022 by BermudaBound2014

[KeithJenner]

It is interesting that Spiersdr got their booster last week, a year after finishing the original dose. It may be coincidence that they did it then, but there has to be a suspicion that they got it for the cruise.

 

If so then this doesn’t help the argument of those people who claim that they didn’t know about the booster requirement. It could prove that the information was available (which we know it was).

[KeithJenner]

1 minute ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I do see now where this particular cut and paste does state “effective immediately…. Booster at least 14 days prior to embarkation”. Can you provide a date and source for this cut and paste? I’m not trying to be difficult, it looks like maybe a snip from social media?  I can’t verify this anywhere. Again, I’m trying to clarify whether or not one 

isn’t wIt 14 days after a booster to embark. I’m not questioning the booster requirement itself, just the timeline. 

Yes, I remain very sceptical about this item

at the moment as we have no source information.

 

All the other evidence suggests that the document is incorrect regarding the 14 days for the booster, but it’s relevance to the discussion does hang on where it came from and/or whether it was communicated to people.

[KeithJenner]

The 14 day requirement for boosters in Europe is now on the NCL website.

 

Whether it is correct or not becomes irrelevant for future cruises.

[BermudaBound2014]

46 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

Regarding who made the call, we really don’t know at the moment (and very possibly never will).

 

The fact that the denial letter was handed out by NCL doesn’t say anything about who’s decision it was, in my opinion. People were the customers of NCL and I would expect NCL to break the news regardless of who made the decision.

I respectfully disagree with this part.. Referencing only those who were denied boarding because not enough time elapsed between being boosted and embarkation, it seems to me an error was made.  If, in fact, people were wrongfully denied boarding,  the language in this letter is relevant. 
 

2 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

The 14 day requirement for boosters in Europe is now on the NCL website.

 

Whether it is correct or not becomes irrelevant for future cruises.

 

This is a problem with information provided online. It can be changed with a simple keystroke. Dated screen shots are becoming increasingly more important as we all navigate the fluidity of covid regulations. 

 

[KeithJenner]

4 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I respectfully disagree with this part.. Referencing only those who were denied boarding because not enough time elapsed between being boosted and embarkation, it seems to me an error was made.  If, in fact, people were wrongfully denied boarding,  the language in this letter is relevant. 
 

I think you are missing my point. I’m not commenting about whether an error was made, or about the language on the letter.

 

I’m merely saying that the fact that the letter was handed out by NCL staff is not an indication to me as to whether the decision was made by NCL or the local authorities. I believe that NCL would have given the news our whoever made the decision.

[BermudaBound2014]

4 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

I think you are missing my point. I’m not commenting about whether an error was made, or about the language on the letter.

 

I’m merely saying that the fact that the letter was handed out by NCL staff is not an indication to me as to whether the decision was made by NCL or the local authorities. I believe that NCL would have given the news our whoever made the decision.

That makes perfect sense. 
 

I do think the language of the letter indicates NCL took at least partial responsibility for the decision, but on that we can agree to disagree. As you said, we will likely never know.… :). 

Edited April 6, 2022 by BermudaBound2014

[KeithJenner]

2 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

That makes perfect sense. 
 

I do think the language of the letter indicates NCL took at least partial responsibility for the decision, but on that we can agree to disagree. As you said, we will likely never know.… :). 

We aren’t particularly disagreeing on that. I don’t really have any view either way.

[julig22]

42 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

I think you are missing my point. I’m not commenting about whether an error was made, or about the language on the letter.

 

I’m merely saying that the fact that the letter was handed out by NCL staff is not an indication to me as to whether the decision was made by NCL or the local authorities. I believe that NCL would have given the news our whoever made the decision.

Exactly.  And based on the apparent sequence of events I would speculate that it wasn't NCL who made any decisions in the matter - doesn't sound like the affected passengers even made it past the port authority in order to be able to check in.

[jennjess]

I'm wondering if those who did have a booster (and were refused) had travelled with those who had not and were therefore considered to be a higher risk.  NCL and or the port authorities decided it wasn't worth the risk of them becoming sick whilst onboard.

All Covid vaccinations do take about 14 days to become fully effective I'm led to believe by experts.

[Stevio]

5 hours ago, KeithJenner said:

Other than the uncertainty over the 14 day requirement for the Booster then that fairly well sums it up. It seems that people were denied embarkation based on the booster not being 14 days old but it isn’t clear whether whoever made that decision was correct.

From what I can tell, the confusions around the EU "14 day requirements" arise from sloppy NCL interpretations / translations.

From the MSC Mediterranean requirements website (& their site is one of the worst)...

 

"If more than 9 months (270 days) have passed since receiving the two set of vaccine shots, a booster vaccine will be required to embark. If the booster was done before expiration of the second vaccine (therefore within nine months) it is not necessary to respect the 14 days waiting period before boarding. However, if the booster is taken after nine months from the second dose, it is necessary to have had the booster at least 14 days before the departure date. Guests who received a booster vaccine are exempted from the 9 months restriction."

 

So if booster taken within 270 days of the previous vaccine... no worries over the 14 days...

If booster taken outside 270 days of the previous vaccine it is counted as if you had been re-vaccinated & you cannot board if within the the next 14 days.

 

All seems simple apart from Italy where you divide most of the above by two. 😆

 

Edit... I think all of this has been in since February.

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Stevio

[steamboats]

I can tell you that here in Germany legally there´s no 14 day rule regarding the booster - and it doesn´t matter whether you got it within or outside the 270 day period. My new vaccine certificate (QR code) was valid from the day I got my booster.

 

Of course... the cruise lines might require more than the laws... (same for the validity of passports).

 

BTW, at least with a valid EU QR code for your vaccination you don´t need to fill in the Spanish Health Form anymore starting tomorrow! That´s the news of the day. Unfortunately I can´t tell you anything about UK/US/CA vaccinations as you don´t have the EU QR code. You may still have to fill in the form.

 

After Easter Spain might also drop the mask mandate (currently still indoors).

 

steamboats

[Buddee1977]

I'm sailing from Barcelona next week on 4/17, only two shots of vaccine, but I have a recovery letter stating that I was recovered from covid within 180 days. That should fulfill the requirement to enter Spain. But NCL is not accepting the letter, that is making me frustrated! 

[KeithJenner]

14 minutes ago, Buddee1977 said:

I'm sailing from Barcelona next week on 4/17, only two shots of vaccine, but I have a recovery letter stating that I was recovered from covid within 180 days. That should fulfill the requirement to enter Spain. But NCL is not accepting the letter, that is making me frustrated! 

Assuming your two shots were more than 270 days then it sounds like you won't be sailing anywhere in Europe with NCL next week. They have never accepted recovery letters and it is too late to get a booster.

 

Hopefully you will be able to get them to agree to give you FCC or something for the cruise fare as you can't meet the rules they have set. That's what I would be working on now if I were you.

[andy1fsufan]

16 hours ago, LNielsen said:

NCL had no choice. 
 

 

 

Here are a copy of the "entry-rules" for Italy:

Document checklist

Travellers can enter Italy without being subject to quarantine if they provide all the following documents:

1. Fill in the EU Digital Passenger Locator Form before travelling
    
2. Proof of full vaccination.
   Accepted vaccines: vaccines approved by the European Medicines Agency (EMA): Comirnaty (BioNTech and Pfizer), Nuvaxovid (Novavax), Spikevax (Moderna), Vaxzevria (AstraZeneca), COVID19 vaccine Janssen; vaccines considered equivalent in Italy: Covishield, Fiocruz, R-Covi.
   Validity: 270 days (9 months) after the primary vaccination series is completed. Vaccination certificates with booster doses are valid until further notice.
   Note: to access public places in Italy, certificates with a full primary vaccination series are valid for 6 months. Please, consult the Measures section for further details.
   
   Or
   
   Proof of recovery from COVID-19.
   Validity: 180 days (6 months) from the first positive swab.
   
   Or
   
   A negative result to a pre-departure molecular test (valid 72 hours) or to a rapid antigen test (valid 48 hours).

Travellers can provide proof of vaccination, recovery from COVID-19 or a negative test result with one of the following documents, meeting the requirements listed above:

• An 'EU Digital COVID Certificate' (EUDCC) or equivalente certificates;
• Equivalent certificates of vaccination in Italian, English, French, Spanish or German (documents in other languages must be accompanied by anofficial translation in Italian);
• Equivalent certificates of recovery from COVID-19 accompanied by an official translation in Italian.

 

Travellers who do not hold valid proof of vaccination, proof of recovery from COVID-19 or a negative test result must self-isolate for 5 days, at the address indicated on the Passenger Locator Form, and perform an antigen or molecular test at the end of the self-isolation period.

 

And here for Spain:

Entry rules

Citizens of non-EU and non-Schengen Associated countries can enter Spain only if they belong to one of the categories listed by the Ministry of Health.

 

Document checklist

Travellers from countries and areas considered at risk must provide all the documents listed below. The list of risk and high-risk countries is updated every 7 days (see the list valid between 4 and 6 April).

1. All travellers arriving to Spain by air or by sea, including children of any age, passengers in transit to other countries and residents in Spain returning home, must fill in a Health Control Form before departure. Travellers must provide the QR code when they board and when they arrive in Spain. Remember: a separate form must be filled in for each trip and each person.
   
   Travellers by air must fill in and sign the form electronically in the 48 hours before the flight departure, via the Spain Travel Health website or via the apps for Android or iOs.
   
   Travellers by sea must fill in and sign the form electronically on puertos.es.
   
   For travel by land, no form is required.
    
2. A valid 'EU Digital COVID Certificate' (EUDCC) or equivalent documents containing one of the following:
   
   Proof of full vaccination.
   Validity: between 14 and 270 days after the lastscheduled dose of the primary vaccination series was administered. After 270 days, vaccination certificates must include a booster dose.
   Only vaccines authorised by the European Medicines Agency (EMA) and the World Health Organization (WHO) will be accepted for travellers from non-EU and non-Schengen countries. Certificates with other vaccines will also be accepted if the last dose was administered with an authorised vaccine.
   
   Or
   
   Negative result to a pre-departure molecular test (valid 72 hours) or rapid antigen test (valid 24 hours). Consult the list of rapid tests approved bythe European Commission.
   
    

For information regarding specific requirements for all EU countries, here is a direct link (you just fill out the "travel plan", and as you are not residing within EU, you have to put in "rest of the world" as departure country, and then the various requirements are listed:

https://reopen.europa.eu/en

 

Ok, so help me understand where we are not following the NCL rules. The last lines state on the NCL letter is “Or A negative result to a pre-departure molecular test (valid 72 hours) or to a rapid antigen test (valid 48 hours)” .

I was tested upon arrival at the BCN airport ( within 48 hours of departure) and then everyone else also tested at the NCL embarkation area with a negative result prior to accessing the ship. I may not be understanding what the word “or” means but why put that in section 2 of the requirements if they do not follow their own guidelines?   

 

 

 

[LNielsen]

3 hours ago, andy1fsufan said:

Ok, so help me understand where we are not following the NCL rules. The last lines state on the NCL letter is “Or A negative result to a pre-departure molecular test (valid 72 hours) or to a rapid antigen test (valid 48 hours)” .

I was tested upon arrival at the BCN airport ( within 48 hours of departure) and then everyone else also tested at the NCL embarkation area with a negative result prior to accessing the ship. I may not be understanding what the word “or” means but why put that in section 2 of the requirements if they do not follow their own guidelines?   

 

 

 

When had your last vaccination or booster been given?  If it was less than 14 days  or more than 270 days prior to embarkation, that would be the reason for having been  denied boarding.  A negative test would be a moot issue at that point.  If you fell within the allowable timeframe for your vaccine, I have no answer as to why this happened to you. 
 

Regardless, I feel awful for  you and the others.  
 

edited to add that these are not NCL’s rules.   The EU has put them into place, together with Italy’s own rules.  

Edited April 7, 2022 by LNielsen
Added info

[Buddee1977]

 

Now that they took off the "14 days" prior to embarkation, does it mean people can take the booster shot "anytime" before embarkation? 🤔

PS: This was updated on 4/6

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Buddee1977

[KeithJenner]

1 hour ago, Buddee1977 said:

 

Now that they took off the "14 days" prior to embarkation, does it mean people can take the booster shot "anytime" before embarkation? 🤔

PS: This was updated on 4/6

 

 

Interesting.

 

It really looks like NCL are trying to understand the rules themselves. They clearly got caught out on Sunday and have been trying to catch up ever since.

 

That isn’t particularly helpful for those of us sailing in the next few weeks.

[TrumpyNor]

Without knowing all the facts as I was not personally affected by this, I just wanted to mention that I have not seen many posts about the following facts:

• IF allowed to board in Barcelona fully vaccinated without a booster but with a negative test within the requested amount of time before the cruise (so similar to the covid rules for entering Spain in the first place)
• Then there would still be a problem to apply to the requests for entering on the remaining ports of the itinerary where the majority of the ports would request an additional test taken 48-72 hours before arrival in that particular port unless you have had a booster. 
• Which then again means that you would not be able to go ashore in most of the ports on the itinerary during the cruise.
• And as far as I understand it (it may be wrong, but.....); THAT is the reason for being denied taking a cruise if not having the booster (unless the itinerary as a "closed loop cruise to only ports in ONE country".
• Which is a requirement from the various countries on the itinerary and not really possible for NCL to "overlook" even if they wanted to...

Edited April 7, 2022 by TrumpyNor

[KeithJenner]

9 minutes ago, TrumpyNor said:

Without knowing all the facts as I was not personally affected by this, I just wanted to mention that I have not seen many posts about the following facts:

• IF allowed to board in Barcelona fully vaccinated without a booster but with a negative test within the requested amount of time before the cruise (so similar to the covid rules for entering Spain in the first place)
• Then there would still be a problem to apply to the requests for entering on the remaining ports of the itinerary where the majority of the ports would request an additional test taken 48-72 hours before arrival in that particular port unless you have had a booster. 
• Which then again means that you would not be able to go ashore in most of the ports on the itinerary during the cruise.
• And as far as I understand it (it may be wrong, but.....); THAT is the reason for being denied taking a cruise if not having the booster (unless the itinerary as a "closed loop cruise to only ports in ONE country".
• Which is a requirement from the various countries on the itinerary and not really possible for NCL to "overlook" even if they wanted to...

We are all speculating, but I don’t think you are a million miles out.

 

A fear I have always had is turning up at a cruise port, especially on a Sunday in Europe (when it is early Sunday morning in Miami) and finding that there is a problem with your booking that can’t be resolved at the port. If that problem involves the local authorities then no amount of showing them paperwork or arguing about what the NCL website says will help.

 

It looks to me as though some issue was raised by the Barcelona authorities about the people without boosters and NCL were unprepared to deal with it (which, regardless of whether they should have been able to, doesn’t surprise me).

 

It does present some interesting legal issues though. NCL will argue that people should have kept up to date with local requirements, pointing to that wording on their website. However, if those requirements were not correctly applied (which the change to the wording the 14 days for the booster suggests may be the case) then they may not find that argument so easy. It may have been the local authorities who made a mistake, but it was NCLs customers who suffered and I suspect they may have a requirement to help them.

 

For those who didn’t have a booster at all, it looks easier for NCL to argue their case (although I don’t have enough information to really come to a conclusion) the fact is that NCL mention that some European countries have an export for the main jabs so if you turned up at the port with an expired one then it looks like it will be easier for NCL to just point at that and say tough luck.

 

The next tests are the Jade in Athens tomorrow and Star turning round in Venice, before the big one when the Star gets back to Barcelona the following week.

 

I sent my PCC a list of questions yesterday regarding Athens. No reply yet, but I don’t think that he can possibly answer them at the moment without just guessing, which is what I think that the phone staff people have spoken to so far are doing.