US cruisers stranded in Europe

[jules27556]

2 minutes ago, hrhdhd said:

People keep repeating this canard about no fresh air on planes. It's not true.

 

From a National Geographic article (Becker works for Lufthansa): "About 40 percent of a cabin's air gets filtered through this HEPA system; the remaining 60 percent is fresh and piped in from outside the plane."

 

 “Cabin air is completely changed every three minutes, on average, while the aircraft is cruising,” says Becker.

Thank you!!  As a former United flight attendant who flew back and forth to the States from my base

in Frankfurt, I can certainly tell the difference in cabin air quality that recent improvements have made!  Even flying domestically now days as a passenger.      I appreciate and respect the efforts that have been made to help us travel safely.  Then it is up to each of us how to make it part of our own personal safety  protocols.  In October, on my flight to Italy, I will probably be in my mask, even if no longer required.....

[Guppy99]

23 minutes ago, hrhdhd said:

People keep repeating this canard about no fresh air on planes. It's not true.

 

From a National Geographic article (Becker works for Lufthansa): "About 40 percent of a cabin's air gets filtered through this HEPA system; the remaining 60 percent is fresh and piped in from outside the plane."

 

 “Cabin air is completely changed every three minutes, on average, while the aircraft is cruising,” says Becker.

still not at all the same as driving in a car with a window open or fresh air being sucked in and circulated. The air comes from the tiniest little jets above your head. and by your own admission, 40% is recirculated. Does not, imo, diminish my point at all.

[Guppy99]

2 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Bo- there is very little protection on an enclosed cruise ship these days from being exposed and infected with the highly contagious Omicron and all of its subvariants.  Although milder for most people, it is still treated the same on ship as Delta and other earlier versions operationally.  You test positive on ship, you isolate in a lesser accommodation.  And the ship struggles to help you because they are overwhelmed.  Being fully vaccinated (and boosted) keeps you from serious illness but that's it.  The current vaccines were derived from the original virus and they are no match at all for Omicron (for protection from infection). Period. That's why cases on board "fully vaccinated" ships are dramatically increasing as masks and distancing were eliminated.  This will continue to be the case (or worse) until newer vaccines (for boosters) are better matched to Omicron.  Maybe late this year.

Exactly. which is why ...despite the bellyaching here....the protocols should remain in place and people need to either no cruise or accept the risks and inconveniences.

[Tony UK]

8 hours ago, rachiem said:

Most people I know who've had it recently seem to test positive for longer at the moment? At Xmas it seemed to be 3 to 5 days and now it seems to be about 2 weeks? 

Sorry to hear that you are too 😞

 

I dont kow anyone who was less than 10 days. I thought 5 days was uk govt propaganda to get people back to work lol!!

[suzyluvs2cruise]

10 hours ago, carolinagal said:

my sister was tested onboard day before they docked in Netherlands. Her travel companions were already in quarantine on the ship. They were all vaxed and tested negative before they boarded in florida.

Were your sister and her friends offered any options? Did your sister have symptoms?

[BigAl94]

3 hours ago, Empehi said:

So .... as long as we can not come back to our country (by plane) when we want from Europe (or any other place) ..... I don't think it makes sense to leave. Cruise from US ports and return to US ports and have a more relaxing vacation. 

The best solution sadly as long as you have this restriction.

[Tony UK]

23 minutes ago, Guppy99 said:

Exactly. which is why ...despite the bellyaching here....the protocols should remain in place and people need to either no cruise or accept the risks and inconveniences.

I think many would accept staying in their own room as with Norovirus! Coupes should be allowed to stay together if that is their choice. Impact on mental health as well as physical health should be taken into account. Look at how other cruiselines are handling positive covid cases like Viking!

The sail safe stuff issues by Celebrity IMHO opinion misleads peoople when the facts demonstrate the risks you need to accept if cruising. There will undoubtedly be cases on board, Omicron is highly contagious although tends to be milder among vaccinated. I havent heard anyone who was contact traced and tested although I know for a fact that we unknowingly spent an hour in close contact shortly before a positive test, we were never contacted about it!

Crew are now allowed ashore without escort or being on a tour. 

What people think is keeping them safe really isnt!!|

[catspaw1]

9 hours ago, bananavan said:

EXACTLY, but how about the cruise lines ignore those facts? 
I am becoming more and more angry. 
BUT the thing I want to say on this thread is this:
How about everyone of you who wants to hijack the thread by debating the merits of the  Covid reaction, take your opinions elsewhere. 
There are many fellow cruisers trying desperately to get home to the USA. 
How about we focus our attention back on that 
Those of us trying to return were all on Transatlantic that left the USA in the Month of April. 
And I just got the call that I am still testing positive. 
I am devastated. 

I am so sorry this is happening to you but hope all goes well for the both of you. Please keep us posted. Thank you for taking the time & effort to tell us about your ordeal. I wish the CDC would order mask wearing on ships right now but seriously doubt this will happen. It seems many people are testing positive now.

[Guppy99]

11 minutes ago, Tony UK said:

I havent heard anyone who was contact traced and tested

This happened, to at lest 15 people aboard Equinox in Jan

[Ex-Airbalancer]

2 hours ago, Guppy99 said:

This happened, to at lest 15 people aboard Equinox in Jan

I was had to test for  5 days after contact 

but as the cruise came closer to the end close contact people were not tested 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Ex-Airbalancer

[OysterD]

1 hour ago, Guppy99 said:

still not at all the same as driving in a car with a window open or fresh air being sucked in and circulated. The air comes from the tiniest little jets above your head. and by your own admission, 40% is recirculated. Does not, imo, diminish my point at all.

It does diminish your point because even the 40% which is 'recirculated' is passed through HEPA filters, which filter out particles the size of and smaller than coronavirus.  Fresh/purified/filtered air comes in from the top of the cabin and is sucked out through vents running at floor level. Again, the whole cabin air is completely refreshed/exchanged every 2-3 mins. Breathing stale/infected air out while sat down in a seat and most of the time that air is sucked out through the vents and either filtered or exits the aircraft within seconds. 

[Guppy99]

5 minutes ago, OysterD said:

It does diminish your point because even the 40% which is 'recirculated' is passed through HEPA filters, which filter out particles the size of and smaller than coronavirus.  Fresh/purified/filtered air comes in from the top of the cabin and is sucked out through vents running at floor level. Again, the whole cabin air is completely refreshed/exchanged every 2-3 mins. Breathing stale/infected air out while sat down in a seat and most of the time that air is sucked out through the vents and either filtered or exits the aircraft within seconds. 

still makes more sense to test when fling, and to a lesser extent driving. And no matter what you say, I know the smell of filtered air, and that's in abundance on a flight.

[CNPGOLF]

While these conversations are good to enlighten everyone to the issues, everyone must make their own decisions on where they want to cruise. The last two years has taught us that policies can can quickly and we have to adapt.

 

The bottom line is if you are not willing to take the risk, don't cruise.  If you are willing to take the risk then have a plan.

 

We are going on our med cruise in October and we will take all the precautions we can.

[carolinagal]

2 hours ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

Were your sister and her friends offered any options? Did your sister have symptoms?

She had no symptoms.

Their TA cruise left Port Everglades on April 30,  Celebrity changed compensation guidelines after May 1st. I think 

X will pay for their hotel and airline change fee 'cause she sailed before  May 1. Not sure if they're still paying for hotels after May 1 sailings.  She has good travel insurance. There was another option at that time, to stay on the ship, but I don't know the details of what that involved. 

My question is, what if after 10 days she still tests positive and still can't fly home. This could drag on and on.

I feel for all these people stuck in Europe.

[VitaminSea53]

28 minutes ago, carolinagal said:

She had no symptoms.

Their TA cruise left Port Everglades on April 30,  Celebrity changed compensation guidelines after May 1st. I think 

X will pay for their hotel and airline change fee 'cause she sailed before  May 1. Not sure if they're still paying for hotels after May 1 sailings.  She has good travel insurance. There was another option at that time, to stay on the ship, but I don't know the details of what that involved. 

My question is, what if after 10 days she still tests positive and still can't fly home. This could drag on and on.

I feel for all these people stuck in Europe.

After 10 days (with the date of first PCR positive test being Day 0), you can get a Certificate of Recovery and that enables you to fly back to the US.  You get the certificate from a local doctor or on-line doctor services.

[Ommadawn]

15 hours ago, Guppy99 said:

testing differences between flying and driving makes perfect sense to me. Flying means very close seating with strangers for long periods and no fresh air, and waiting around luggage carousals,  airport gates without fresh air etc.  Whereas driving generally means you are with people you associate with usually and have been exposed to, plenty of fresh air, minimal exposure to strangers.

 

You can take a flight for 45 minutes from Canada to the US and have to test. You can ride a bus for 6 hours to cover the same distance over the same border with much less ventilation than the airplane and you don't need to test. How does that make sense?

[Ommadawn]

As to the original poster's question, I would still fly to Canada (Vancouver or Victoria) or to Mexico (Juarez), take a taxi or an Uber to the border, walk across for which you need no negative test result, and then take a cab or an Uber to the airport in Seattle or El Paso and fly home to your city in the USA. I believe that I have stated above that this is my emergency back up plan if I absolutely must return for an emergency or some such.

[BigAl94]

12 hours ago, carolinagal said:

 

My question is, what if after 10 days she still tests positive and still can't fly home. This could drag on and on.

I feel for all these people stuck in Europe.

They surely knew the risk they were taking before they left USA. Situation of their own making. When we had a similar testing and quarantine regime to return in UK our decision was that it was too risky so didn't leave the country. Many who took the chance and it didn't work out for them ended up severely out of pocket as insurance didn't cover them in the circumstances. There was no sympathy for them.

[bananavan]

2 hours ago, BigAl94 said:

They surely knew the risk they were taking before they left USA. Situation of their own making. When we had a similar testing and quarantine regime to return in UK our decision was that it was too risky so didn't leave the country. Many who took the chance and it didn't work out for them ended up severely out of pocket as insurance didn't cover them in the circumstances. There was no sympathy for them.

Thank you for your empathy. 
Obviously you make intelligent decisions and are totally prepared for every possible Governmental change that might occur while you are in the middle of whatever you chose to do. 
What is your backup plan for lost luggage?

[bananavan]

15 hours ago, carolinagal said:

She had no symptoms.

Their TA cruise left Port Everglades on April 30,  Celebrity changed compensation guidelines after May 1st. I think 

X will pay for their hotel and airline change fee 'cause she sailed before  May 1. Not sure if they're still paying for hotels after May 1 sailings.  She has good travel insurance. There was another option at that time, to stay on the ship, but I don't know the details of what that involved. 

My question is, what if after 10 days she still tests positive and still can't fly home. This could drag on and on.

I feel for all these people stuck in Europe.

After May 1, Celebrity no longer offered to pay for shoreside accommodations, transportation or meals. 
That was the reason for our decision to stay onboard. 
And now my husband is in Day 16 of Quarantine (he chose to remain with me instead of going back to a Suite) and I am in Day 8 as I failed the test on Day 7. We are in Italy and the rules that were sent to us on April 30 th were no longer the same. At that point it was test on Day 5 and 6. 
Then things changed again on May 3. And again on May 9. 
And for all of the very brilliant people who suggest we should have known this was going to happen, take your condescension and hold on to it until you find yourself in an unexpected situation that you had no control over. 

[Bo1953]

15 hours ago, carolinagal said:

She had no symptoms.

Their TA cruise left Port Everglades on April 30,  Celebrity changed compensation guidelines after May 1st. I think 

X will pay for their hotel and airline change fee 'cause she sailed before  May 1. Not sure if they're still paying for hotels after May 1 sailings.  She has good travel insurance. There was another option at that time, to stay on the ship, but I don't know the details of what that involved. 

My question is, what if after 10 days she still tests positive and still can't fly home. This could drag on and on.

I feel for all these people stuck in Europe.

I feel for them as well, even more so if they did not make contingency plans 'just in case'... cannot afford to be away for so long or cannot financially afford it or even possibly get sicker.

 

It is our choice to travel in these times and it is our responsibility to know the potential downsides, just in case.

 

Will we know and understand them all? NO. Yet a few of the major ones will help get us through the minor ones, or so I believe.

 

I trust your sister and her friends recover enough to get back home ASAP and feel free enough to travel again soon.

 

In health and bon voyage

[rachiem]

35 minutes ago, bananavan said:

After May 1, Celebrity no longer offered to pay for shoreside accommodations, transportation or meals. 
That was the reason for our decision to stay onboard. 
And now my husband is in Day 16 of Quarantine (he chose to remain with me instead of going back to a Suite) and I am in Day 8 as I failed the test on Day 7. We are in Italy and the rules that were sent to us on April 30 th were no longer the same. At that point it was test on Day 5 and 6. 
Then things changed again on May 3. And again on May 9. 
And for all of the very brilliant people who suggest we should have known this was going to happen, take your condescension and hold on to it until you find yourself in an unexpected situation that you had no control over. 

Do you know whether, if you decide to stay on the ship instead of being put ashore, can you stay on until the end of that next leg or do they offload you in the next port after testing negative?

[Bo1953]

46 minutes ago, bananavan said:

After May 1, Celebrity no longer offered to pay for shoreside accommodations, transportation or meals. 
That was the reason for our decision to stay onboard. 
And now my husband is in Day 16 of Quarantine (he chose to remain with me instead of going back to a Suite) and I am in Day 8 as I failed the test on Day 7. We are in Italy and the rules that were sent to us on April 30 th were no longer the same. At that point it was test on Day 5 and 6. 
Then things changed again on May 3. And again on May 9. 
And for all of the very brilliant people who suggest we should have known this was going to happen, take your condescension and hold on to it until you find yourself in an unexpected situation that you had no control over. 

Sorry that your vacation is being controlled by C-19 and know it is a great disappointment for you, as well, to have to be subject to policies of governments and X...

 

I would trust that most of us would understand that policies and rules covering public transportation and the like will, can and do change at moments notice. If not, then we have to take what is dealt at the time.

 

I think most of the 'brilliant' individuals really mean that this situation needed to be anticipated, if not exactly known. Since you are on CC, there have been opportunities to read about others on X's (and other ships) who are in a similar situation and etc...

 

As for not having "no control over.", we have a great degree of control over the situation, it is rather we want to have and keep control or not.

 

I just cancelled my move-up bids to suites based on the number of posts from those 'residents' contracting C-19 vs non-suiters (LOL), not that the later as any more knowledge than the former, I Am in the belief that there are more opportunities to social distance and keep safer, faulty posit I know, yet I Am sticking to it to remain safer as possible!!!

 

We sail soon and We will do what we can to keep control over it and not believe that certain measures we take will 'ruin' our ability to enjoy the sailing.

 

But be that as it may, you are not in an enviable position at the moment, regardless.

 

In health and bon voyage

Edited May 16, 2022 by Bo1953

[bananavan]

17 minutes ago, rachiem said:

Do you know whether, if you decide to stay on the ship instead of being put ashore, can you stay on until the end of that next leg or do they offload you in the next port after testing negative?

They keep you on until the final port. 
 I just had a visit from the Nurse to remove an IV line. 
She reiterated that the situation had changed so rapidly that nobody had any idea what was going to happen. 
The previous Edge passengers who tested positive for Covid did so after they disembarked. 
And the Edge was lucky,  the Odyssey had 300 persons in Covid lockdown at the end of that Transatlantic 

And to Bo, 

No, I did  not spend my days on Cruise Critic prior to this last cruise. 
We had other  things to deal with, which are nobody's business other than our own. 
When we departed there were very few other Transatlantic that had gone ahead of us. 
Until I started reading JETBLUE's account I had no idea as to the severity of the situation. 
That some of you think that you would have prevented this happening to you because you know better, I wish you the best of luck.
There were constant posts about how they were able to prevent getting covid. 
And I brought my own hand made anti viral spray and cloths to disinfect every square inch of the suite. And I had a special spray to disinfect my masks when returned to the Suite. 
And I used the Hand sanitizer along with a cloth in the Luminae to clean the salt and pepper shakers as soon as I noticed that of all items on the table, these were never changed between guests. 
So despite these precautions, we still got Covid. 
If you read various cruising posts all over there are those whose luggage got lost: 
When they post that they get the response: "We always pack a set of formal wear, casual wear, and swim wear for each of us in each of our carryon bags." In other words, these people should have anticipated losing their suitcases. 
.Where they get room for the Miss February  28 days of underwear, fruit and nut snacks in case of quarantine, back up medications in case they are stranded with covid 19, is anyone's guess. Oh and books, downloaded to the Kindle that might have also gotten lost, because who worries about losing a Kindle these days? 
I did remember to put the George Forman grill back in the garage before we departed because I decided that I probably was not going to do my normal amount of fishing off the aft balcony while we were on a Transatlantic.
I also left the blender in the kitchen because we had the Premier Drinks package. I regret that now because  I did not realize how badly I would need non stop Margaritas what with this Covid Quarantine .
If you think that you can outrun this, I am happy for you. 
We live in Florida. We were quite comfortable mixing with others over the past two years and did not develop even a runny nose. We are vaxxed and boosted. We did what we were supposed to do, according to the Public Health authorities. 
But not enough. 
The one thing I can state is that eating ones own words is rather distasteful. 
For all those who suggest we should have known better, I will be watching this space with great intensity . What else do I have to do? It is not like I have photos to catalog. 
v

[Tony UK]

4 hours ago, BigAl94 said:

They surely knew the risk they were taking before they left USA. Situation of their own making. When we had a similar testing and quarantine regime to return in UK our decision was that it was too risky so didn't leave the country. Many who took the chance and it didn't work out for them ended up severely out of pocket as insurance didn't cover them in the circumstances. There was no sympathy for them.

I'm not sure why you believe people werent sympathetic just because they were British.....maybe a bit of bunker mentality lol!! Like you we didnt travel until the horizon looked a little brighter. We are lucky our Governments doesn't now stop us coming home!!

I dont think people want sympathy...they want relevant practical information. Ideally they want Governments and companies to be more realistic and transparent. Most of the posts are alerting people to the need to research, insure, have back up plans. 

Hope for the best prepare for the worst!!