Too late to blame air changes on the pandemic

[PasadenaDave]

We are cruising Quebec City to Boston in September and received the following notice of a flight change from Air Canada.

 

We're sorry as a part of your itinerary has changed due to pandemic-related factors beyond our control such as industry-wide labour shortages and government entry requirements. and we have automatically rebooked you on another flight.   

 

The staffing shortage isn't due to pandemic related factors.  We booked this flight ten days ago.  What is clear what happened is they cancelled our flight, Saturday at 11:16 and moved us to the 0700 flight due to few passengers on the 11:16.

 

I'm not complaining, but rather pointing out that they blame this on the pandemic!  Labor shortages have been predicted for decades due to the aging population and will only get worse.  This change was fully in control by Air Canada who is no worse or better than any other airline/commodity based service provider

[CruiserBruce]

I think you may not understand the escalated retirements done during Covid to cut costs during the shutdown.  And do you think they were able to ramp up recruiting,  training and certification during Covid? Most people don't. 

 

It's definitely Covid related. 

[Globaliser]

19 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

It's definitely Covid related. 

 

Yes - think of it as the industry's equivalent of long Covid.

[iancal]

This is not an AC issue.   Nor is it a Canadian issue or a US issue.  The major carriers in Canada, US, and Europe are cancelling flights.   Best chance is international flights since the carriers are loathe to cancel them.

 

It is an international issue.  It started weeks  earlier in Europe.  We heard about it constantly in the last week of May while we were in Europe. 

 

The carriers are cancelling flights.  A number of European airports are giving carriers a percentage of flight to cancel as well as time adjustments for flights.

 

In some instances it is down to staff covid infections.  In others staffing cutbacks. In others delays in order to have new hires security cleared.

 

All a result of covid.  Staffing cutbacks, rehire issues. Not to mention a surge in demand (and prices).

 

We would certainly not feel safe arriving a day prior to our cruise.  It would seem that two days is more prudent given the situation.

Edited July 1, 2022 by iancal

[Dolebludger]

Somehow, the Covid pandemic created a labor shortage in all areas, including airlines. But since airlines have known this for some time, they certainly not be canceling recently booked flights due to this. They never should have shown the flight for booking in the first place when they should have known they couldn’t staff it. And airlines have been running too thin on staffing, even before the pandemic. Back seven years ago, we started having problems with AA for delayed flights. When I demanded to know why, I was told that they couldn’t find the pilot!!!

[PasadenaDave]

2 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

Somehow, the Covid pandemic created a labor shortage in all areas, including airlines. But since airlines have known this for some time, they certainly not be canceling recently booked flights due to this. They never should have shown the flight for booking in the first place when they should have known they couldn’t staff it. And airlines have been running too thin on staffing, even before the pandemic. Back seven years ago, we started having problems with AA for delayed flights. When I demanded to know why, I was told that they couldn’t find the pilot!!!

Dole, finally someone who understands my point.  It would be one thing if I had booked this flight six months ago, but this was mid June less than 90 days out.  Saturday is a slow flight day.  You are correct that staffing was an issue pre pandemic and yes it was exacerbated but 90 days out, I find blaming the pandemic to be rather weak.  I would have no problem if they said, due to passenger loads on this route on your day of flight, we have combined flights so that our systemwide flights operate efficiently during this busy season.

[Z'Loth]

I just blame it on 2020+2 and move on. 

[rkacruiser]

5 hours ago, Z'Loth said:

I just blame it on 2020+2 and move on. 

 

What else can we, as possible passengers do?

 

I do understand the OP's position that the airlines have been unrealistic in scheduling flights that possibly could not be flown.  Hoping to be able to do so is not a good business plan and is furthering causing some already unhappy people about a variety of issues to be even more unhappy.  

 

18 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

And airlines have been running too thin on staffing, even before the pandemic. Back seven years ago, we started having problems with AA for delayed flights.

 

I have experienced this with AA as well and in, of all places, an AA hub:  ORD.  The plane was at the gate when I got to the gate.  No pilots or flight attendant for the flight.  They arrived almost 6 hours after the time of the scheduled departure.  

[Globaliser]

20 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

But since airlines have known this for some time ... They never should have shown the flight for booking in the first place when they should have known they couldn’t staff it.

 

In your opinion, based on your extensive and in-depth knowledge of how the industry works?

 

Repeating the same old stuff on thread after thread in this forum doesn't make it any more true.

[PasadenaDave]

1 hour ago, Globaliser said:

 

In your opinion, based on your extensive and in-depth knowledge of how the industry works?

 

Repeating the same old stuff on thread after thread in this forum doesn't make it any more true.

Poor management plain and simple.  Too many businesses are blaming the pandemic.  At what point do you consider that the excuse doesn’t “fly”?  Yes, it depends on the industry.

 

Here in California for a long time one could not evict tenants even though extended unemployment benefits and stimulus payments were made.

 

at some point people and private businesses need to be held accountable 

[CruiserBruce]

7 minutes ago, PasadenaDave said:

Here in California for a long time one could not evict tenants even though extended unemployment benefits and stimulus payments were made.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with the airline business.

[Dolebludger]

1 hour ago, Globaliser said:

 

In your opinion, based on your extensive and in-depth knowledge of how the industry works?

 

Repeating the same old stuff on thread after thread in this forum doesn't make it any more true.

I don’t know how the industry works, and I don’t want to know. Because what I know is that is isn’t working the way it is being run now.

[PasadenaDave]

2 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

And that has absolutely nothing to do with the airline business.

Correct it doesn’t, but it is another example of the coddling of people and businesses with the excuse of pandemic.  It seems like many businesses and people are using the excuse of the pandemic to explain away their own failings.

 

 The free money train doesn’t stop and I agree that I have exceeded my point of this thread

[cruisepro19]

Dear PasadenaDave,

 

Understanding your frustration about your flight change, where are you connecting through when you fly in for your Quebec City cruise in September?  How far in advance are you flying in?  

[FlyerTalker]

20 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

I don’t know how the industry works, and I don’t want to know. Because what I know is that is isn’t working the way it is being run now.

 

So we have:

 

1) I don't know.

2) I don't want to know

3) I still get to proclaim what is right and wrong about an industry that i know nothing about.

4) I get a big thrill out of bitching about something.

5) I have no positive commentary with which to be helpful.

 

Did I miss something?

 

[FlyerTalker]

On 7/1/2022 at 1:51 PM, PasadenaDave said:

What is clear what happened is they cancelled our flight, Saturday at 11:16 and moved us to the 0700 flight due to few passengers on the 11:16.

 

And just how do you know what the passenger load factor was on the 11:16?  (And please don't say "seat map", which means nothing)

 

 

[PasadenaDave]

1 hour ago, cruisepro19 said:

Dear PasadenaDave,

 

Understanding your frustration about your flight change, where are you connecting through when you fly in for your Quebec City cruise in September?  How far in advance are you flying in?  

It’s not a problem we arrive Saturday evening for a Wednesday boarding 

[6rugrats]

3 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

And just how do you know what the passenger load factor was on the 11:16?  (And please don't say "seat map", which means nothing)

 

 

They don’t know!  It’s just a fun guess.

[rkacruiser]

17 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

Did I miss something?

 

Give it a break!  I think we know your views.  We ought to know the other person's views.  

 

I am certain you are a frequent flyer.  I suspect the other person is not.  Any compassion for those fliers who are less experienced than you?  

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

I am certain you are a frequent flyer.  I suspect the other person is not.  Any compassion for those fliers who are less experienced than you?  

 

A ton of compassion.  That's why I post here - to hopefully improve the experiences of others.  I could save a bunch of my time by not bothering at all.

 

What I don't have is tolerance for inaccuracy and outright false statements.  For people talking out of a bodily orifice that wasn't designed for speech.  There's a big difference between "air travel seems to be more difficult, any suggestions to help us newbies out" and "I know nothing about the industry, but here's the source of the problem and what the answer is".

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, FlyerTalker said:

What I don't have is tolerance for inaccuracy and outright false statements. 

 

I get it.  Some of us "don't know what we don't know".  

[cruisepro19]

Dear PasadenaDave,

 

That is great that you have that time before the cruise.  I know it is only July and things may change, but there has been a lot of media/press here about Air Canada cancelling flights for July and August.  As an example, if you look at Toronto Pearson airport at the arrivals and departures for today, there are a number of cancelled and delayed flights.  It is hard to predict what “may” happen.  We are travelling to Quebec City for a cruise in September and currently live not far from Toronto and are scheduled to fly 1 day in advance. However, if our flight happens to be cancelled, we are fully prepared to make the drive as a back-up plan.  I hope things go smoothly for you and that it is stress free flying in.

[PasadenaDave]

1 hour ago, cruisepro19 said:

Dear PasadenaDave,

 

That is great that you have that time before the cruise.  I know it is only July and things may change, but there has been a lot of media/press here about Air Canada cancelling flights for July and August.  As an example, if you look at Toronto Pearson airport at the arrivals and departures for today, there are a number of cancelled and delayed flights.  It is hard to predict what “may” happen.  We are travelling to Quebec City for a cruise in September and currently live not far from Toronto and are scheduled to fly 1 day in advance. However, if our flight happens to be cancelled, we are fully prepared to make the drive as a back-up plan.  I hope things go smoothly for you and that it is stress free flying in.

Not really concerned 

[Z'Loth]

I don't know... I'm just a tech with a business degree who understands business flow and processes, yet manages a tiny yet mighty support team for online conferencing for a specialized business segment. Last year, I had scheduled a week off in September for my birthday. This was booked in early April, yet I spent a good chunk of that birthday week managing a major upgrade. I was so upset at that blown vacation that I immediately booked one year out a 10-day cruise. That cruise went into "jeopardy" status last week due to some health issues with my 81-year-old mother. Those would have been challenges enough during a "normal" year, but with emphasis added in this post-Covid environment.

 

Can you look at me with a straight face and tell me, back in July 2019, that within one year, we would be in the worst pandemic since the 1918 Spanish flu, and that we would be converting guest bedrooms, kitchen tables, and living rooms into home offices for "six weeks to flatten the curse"? Sure, the price of gas dropped to an average of $1.34 per gallon here in DFW in May, 2020, but where can you go? DFW International, which is one of the busiest airports in terms of passenger volume (the busiest is Atlanta), went from 75,066,956 passengers in 2019 to 39,364,990 in 2020, a 47.5602% decrease and a level not seen since the mid-1980s. It was announced in May, 2019 that they would finally construct Terminal F for completion by 2025, but that project is now on yet another indefinite hold. A transit project called the "Silver Line" to the DFW airport starting in 2019 and was originally supposed to be completed in 2022. Now, the expected completion date is 2024.

 

But hey, things are getting back to normal, right? After 720 days of the "six weeks to flatten the curve", we can start going back to the office at the beginning of March, something that I have been anxiously looking forward to since it's a nice walk to work. Guess what also happened in March? Russia invades Ukraine with the result that the average USA gas price jumps from $3.50 per gallon at the beginning of March to $4.32 per gallon in mid-March.

 

How about mortgage rates? At the beginning of this year, Fannie Mae predicted that 30 year fixed mortgage rates would climb from 3.1% to 3.3% by the end of the year, while the Mortgage Bankers Association predicted rates would be 4%. They are now around 5.70%. 

 

Nobody expected the events of the past three years. You have to take a look at the data, take your best guess, and hope for the best. If you are seeing a 50% drop in passenger volume, do you continue to fly planes empty into bankruptcy, or do you reduce costs? If car production drops, do you cancel orders, or have completed cars rusting away in fields? We are seeing the effects of those decisions today, and will continue to do so for the forseeable future. 

[Dolebludger]

I understand the effects of the pandemic in air travel. It has been huge. Because of it, we now have a staffing shortage in all businesses. I don’t know where the employees went, and how they are living with no employment income. But I guess they have found a way, because employees are hard to find now — for airlines. As a result, airlines have removed many flights from their listings well in advance. I understand this. What I don’t understand is airlines canceling flights for personnel shortage while booked and paid passengers are driving to the airport. Can’t airlines foresee the impact of staff shortage farther in advance than that? The whole problem originated in the early 1980s when airlines were allowed to abandon direct flights in favor of connections — so that one delayed or canceled flight could ruin an entire trip. Also, then, airlines were allowed to refuse to transfer luggage to another airline that was not in their “program” creating a bit of a monopoly. So if I get to an airport via AA, and my connecting AA flight is canceled, but I can get one on UA, I have to get my luggage (if I even can) and recheck it and go through security again. Good luck with the timing on that! Before then, ALL airlines (except Southwest) had luggage transfer to any other airline. Airline mergers have since been rampant. We no have three major players,— AA, UA, and Delta. And they won’t transfer luggage between them unless to a :affiliate”.I have no defense to offer for the airlines. They are the Robber Barons of this century. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Dolebludger