Playing "the points" game

[dianajo67]

1 hour ago, jules815 said:

 

Interesting. We have a Sapphire Preferred and our newest Chase card is a Freedom Unlimited which has no annual fee and gives 1.5 on most purchases, 5 on travel, 3 at pharmacies, etc. This is the card we've been using like a debit since May and putting EVERYTHING on it.  Just learned that Sapphire gives 3 points for streaming services, so about to make that change. 

 

I'm interested in the Sapphire Reserve, we get upgrade offers often, but that annual fee is the only thing holding me back. Question though. Does the reserve card grant access to all airport lounges, and would it include my spouse? If it wouldn't ding our credit, I wouldn't have a problem closing one of the other cards.

 

Really appreciate all the info. Like I said, starting to climb the walls since my knee surgery, and this has given me something fun to do and get excited about planning our next trip. 

I’m hesitant to answer about the airport lounges as my hubby is the EXPERT and he is out of town.  We’ve used the reserve card for lounge access for both of us in the past, but terms and conditions do change over time.  I’m having a very vague memory of my hubby saying that the terms were changing and guests would no longer be allowed in the lounge with the reserve card.  Please don’t hold me to this as we have so many cards with lounge access that I could be mixing up cards.  I’m great educating folks on the macro benefits of playing the points game, but defer to my hobbyist hubby for the latest deals.  I excel at “spending” the points!!

 

On another note…we use our Freedom Unlimited as our everyday card if we don’t have a card with a great incentive.  Use it for groceries, gas etc as the 1.5% is not terrible….and I can move those point to my Reserve card when I redeem them.  Use the Reserve for dining out as it’s always 3 percent!  The annual fee is not a big deal as you get a $300 credit as soon spend $X ($300-500 on travel —can’t remember exactly as we have zero problem doing this within a year…usually first month!). More than make up the rest with the 50% increase in value of points when purchasing hotels.

 

Hubby is very enthusiastic at playing the points game.  I was VERY cautious getting involved and resisted for several YEARS.  The results have convinced me it’s worth it!  Hubby is very generous with his expertise and has helped many of our neighbors and his coworkers get set up with the right cards etc based on their individual circumstances.  We don’t push it on anyone and really only get into it with family/friends who express interest. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by dianajo67

[exm]

29 minutes ago, dianajo67 said:

I’m hesitant to answer about the airport lounges as my hubby is the EXPERT and he is out of town.  We’ve used the reserve card for lounge access for both of us in the past, but terms and conditions do change over time.  I’m having a very vague memory of my hubby saying that the terms were changing and guests would no longer be allowed in the lounge with the reserve card.  Please don’t hold me to this as we have so many cards with lounge access that I could be mixing up cards.  I’m great educating folks on the macro benefits of playing the points game, but defer to my hobbyist hubby for the latest deals.  I excel at “spending” the points!!

 

On another note…we use our Freedom Unlimited as our everyday card if we don’t have a card with a great incentive.  Use it for groceries, gas etc as the 1.5% is not terrible….and I can move those point to my Reserve card when I redeem them.  Use the Reserve for dining out as it’s always 3 percent!  The annual fee is not a big deal as you get a $300 credit as soon spend $X ($300-500 on travel —can’t remember exactly as we have zero problem doing this within a year…usually first month!). More than make up the rest with the 50% increase in value of points when purchasing hotels.

 

Hubby is very enthusiastic at playing the points game.  I was VERY cautious getting involved and resisted for several YEARS.  The results have convinced me it’s worth it!  Hubby is very generous with his expertise and has helped many of our neighbors and his coworkers get set up with the right cards etc based on their individual circumstances.  We don’t push it on anyone and really only get into it with family/friends who express interest. 

 

We have a similar setup. I have the following credit cards:

- Sapphire Reserve for travel, including cruises

- Amex Gold for restaurant and grocery stores

- Delta Gold for free checked bags on Delta

- Freedom unlimited for everything else

 

This gives me the following:

- I can move points between the Chase cards and use the Reserve to book flights (which I most of the time use my points for). Usually I book on Delta, and:

- The Delta Gold gives me free checked bags among other perks.

- The Amex Gold has 4% cash back on above categories, and I can transfer those points to Delta. Sometimes I use them for upgrades, or I book tickets directly.

- The Reserve gives me airport lounge access

- Amex also has GREAT offers, sometimes on RC

 

How about annual fees?

- Reserve: $550, offset by $300 travel credit, $60 doordash. So $190 "net" for lounge access and 1.5 point conversion (which is huge!) and 3% CB on travel

- Delta (Amex) Gold: $99. I have a family of 5, so one flight a year with bags easily nullifies the fee

- Amex Gold: $250. However, with $120 per year in dining credits and $120 per year in Uber Cash (can be used for Uber and Uber Eats), it's $10 in essence.

I also get Uber Eats Pass, Grubhub+, Lyft Pink memberships with all of this.

[firefly333]

57 minutes ago, exm said:

 

Please look into other travel cards. The RCL card is terrible.

I no longer have any travel cards, just a regular rewards card, but thanks. 

[alexgtp]

Just booked my return flights for NYE cruise. Used my Southwest points for 4 full fares!

 

Nice too see other ppl travel hacking!!!

[moposh]

I have the BOA Royal Caribbean CC where I earn points towards free cruises.  I have gotten three, well, two, with one upcoming free cruises for two people.  It's great.  I use the cc for basically all my purchases.  

[dianajo67]

1 hour ago, exm said:

 

We have a similar setup. I have the following credit cards:

- Sapphire Reserve for travel, including cruises

- Amex Gold for restaurant and grocery stores

- Delta Gold for free checked bags on Delta

- Freedom unlimited for everything else

 

This gives me the following:

- I can move points between the Chase cards and use the Reserve to book flights (which I most of the time use my points for). Usually I book on Delta, and:

- The Delta Gold gives me free checked bags among other perks.

- The Amex Gold has 4% cash back on above categories, and I can transfer those points to Delta. Sometimes I use them for upgrades, or I book tickets directly.

- The Reserve gives me airport lounge access

- Amex also has GREAT offers, sometimes on RC

Thank you for the nice clear input!! You’re obviously more involved with the nitty gritty than I am!  We will definitely look into the Delta Gold/Amex Gold perks!  We don’t normally book delta from where we live, but it is an option.  I have AMEX platinum card.  Got 125K points just for signing up (a pretty rare offer) and then max’d out the 10x points on groceries/gas for 6 months….so lots of AMEX points we haven’t even touched.   We haven’t really used the platinum card much since then and are considering downgrading to a card with no fees.  With elderly parents we want to help/support (they cruise a lot with us—last cruise Harmony in Jan!) and hubby still working, we have a bit of time before we can fully enjoy the retired lifestyle and take advantage of the best travel deals.  Thanks again!

Edited July 21, 2022 by dianajo67

[rudeney]

For 20 of the last 30 years, I have worked for, managed, or owned companies that provide software to debt collection attorneys.  The bulk of consumer debt is credit cards, and most of that is with the big banks - CapOne, Citi, Chase, BofA, Discover and AMEX.  I've had to work very closely with these bank for creating and maintaining data interfaces, compliance management, and reporting for my customers.  With one exception, these companies treat their vendors (attorneys and us software providers) like garbage.  Some of their practices are not just unprofessional, but outright illegale.  They don't care because they are so big and insulated with binding arbitration agreements.  The one that is actually a professional organization that treats its vendors and customers with respect is AMEX. 

 

Because of that, I will not do business with the others.  AMEX is the only card I use.  Their points program is not great, but is costs me nothing (they long ago waived the fees on my Gold card).  I don't waste my time playing games to get a few extra hundred or even thousands dollars a year in rewards.  I do have one other card - a BestBuy-branded Citibank card.  We use that strictly for same-as-cash payments on electronics.  That's it.  Everything possible goes on AMEX, and I get somewhere around $3K/year worth of rewards from it. 

[exm]

7 hours ago, moposh said:

I have the BOA Royal Caribbean CC where I earn points towards free cruises.  I have gotten three, well, two, with one upcoming free cruises for two people.  It's great.  I use the cc for basically all my purchases.  

you can do much better with another credit card. Basically you get 2% CB on RC and 1% everywhere else with this CC. If you look at my post above you can get 3% CB on travel including RC and 1.5% on other purchases. Plus you will get a bunch of other perks, too. Take a look.

[Coralc]

I refuse to pay for a credit card. I don't care what sorts of rewards it gives you. We use the RCI card for cruise things, just to get some OBC. I'm thinking about switching to the free BofA Travel Rewards card for more flexibility. We accumulate Hilton Reward points and SWA points from stays and flying. We're not big point players with credit cards. 

[hotsauce126]

The best value for chase points imo is on transfers to hyatt and southwest (especially if you have a companion pass on southwest). Cruises don’t have the greatest value for points bookings imo

[hotsauce126]

4 hours ago, Coralc said:

I refuse to pay for a credit card. I don't care what sorts of rewards it gives you. We use the RCI card for cruise things, just to get some OBC. I'm thinking about switching to the free BofA Travel Rewards card for more flexibility. We accumulate Hilton Reward points and SWA points from stays and flying. We're not big point players with credit cards. 

to each their own. chase sapphire reserve has a $550 annual fee but I’ve gotten literally thousands of dollars of value out of it every year that I’ve had it

[KayRaeRae]

Huge into the points game, mostly via Chase products.  I’m at 5/24 (for those in the know), so I have to wait a bit before trying for new SUBs (sign-up bonuses).  
 

I haven’t paid for a flight in years, and have around a month of free hotel stays accrued.  

[KayRaeRae]

On 7/20/2022 at 12:47 PM, Biker19 said:

You might want to look for another financial guy.

Why?  If one is organized and responsible, the credit card game is incredibly lucrative.  

[Biker19]

4 minutes ago, KayRaeRae said:

 If one is organized and responsible, the credit card game is incredibly lucrative.  

Financial institutions count on folks NOT being organized and responsible - have you ever noticed that in any city scape, banks have some of the biggest and nicest buildings? Yes, the game is very lucrative, for the banks, otherwise they wouldn't offer it. The OP had it right before this idea came around - they used a debit card with which you are less likely to be irresponsible.

[KayRaeRae]

7 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Financial institutions count on folks NOT being organized and responsible - have you ever noticed that in any city scape, banks have some of the biggest and nicest buildings? Yes, the game is very lucrative, for the banks, otherwise they wouldn't offer it. The OP had it right before this idea came around - they used a debit card with which you are less likely to be irresponsible.

Debit cards offer very few rewards, if any.  Using a debit card is the old way of thinking.  I’ve never paid a single cent of credit card interest and have earned thousands and thousands of dollars. If OP wasn’t responsible financially, he/she wouldn’t be a good candidate for the game. 

[Biker19]

3 minutes ago, KayRaeRae said:

If OP wasn’t responsible financially, he/she wouldn’t be a good candidate for the game. 

That's the whole point - starting the point chase game might make one irresponsible where they weren't before.

[KayRaeRae]

2 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

That's the whole point - starting the point chase game might make one irresponsible where they weren't before.

“Might.”  Why do you assume he/she is irresponsible?

[exm]

32 minutes ago, KayRaeRae said:

Huge into the points game, mostly via Chase products.  I’m at 5/24 (for those in the know), so I have to wait a bit before trying for new SUBs (sign-up bonuses).  
 

I haven’t paid for a flight in years, and have around a month of free hotel stays accrued.  

I am with you! Luckily my wife has a LLC so I can open business cards also using her EIN 🙂

[KayRaeRae]

Just now, exm said:

I am with you! Luckily my wife has a LLC so I can open business cards also using her EIN 🙂

Nice!  Business cards are my next project.  😄

[Biker19]

46 minutes ago, KayRaeRae said:

Why do you assume he/she is might become irresponsible?

Again, the whole point of these schemes is to suck consumers into spending more than they would otherwise to chase points - the whole point of this thread.

[KayRaeRae]

5 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Again, the whole point of these schemes is to suck consumers into spending more than they would otherwise to chase points - the whole point of this thread.

And that’s why it’s called a game.  If a person is responsible, he/she doesn’t spend more money.  This isn’t a difficult concept, but I realize different generations learned things an entirely different way.  When I was younger, it was “Credit cards bad; debit cards good.”  That strategy has been reversed for many people these days. 

[dianajo67]

1 hour ago, KayRaeRae said:

Huge into the points game, mostly via Chase products.  I’m at 5/24 (for those in the know), so I have to wait a bit before trying for new SUBs (sign-up bonuses).  
 

I haven’t paid for a flight in years, and have around a month of free hotel stays accrued.  

That’s how my hubby talked me into playing the game.  He was 5/24 and a great deal came up.  Now we sorta manage between the two of us who applies for the cards.  We carry zero balances on our cards….just pay everything like our cell phones etc. routinely with them.  

Edited July 22, 2022 by dianajo67

[BobNoxious]

Wife has Southwest card.  I have Marriott card.   Air and Hotels have been "free" for years.

 

[rudeney]

55 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Again, the whole point of these schemes is to suck consumers into spending more than they would otherwise to chase points - the whole point of this thread.

 

I agree.  The people who pay interest and fees are the ones funding these points.  If everyone paid their cards off each month and incurred no interest or late fees, all of these points programs would dry-up.  The card companies are hoping that the points-chasers will slip up and not pay a bill on time or overspend and not pay it in full and then they will profit from that.  

 

It's easier now with instantly-processed online statements and payments, but years ago, credit card companies would "game" the mail system to try to generate late payments.  They had print and mail centers all over the country, and would choose the one with the slowest mail route between it and you.  The same with payment processing centers - your remittance address be the one with the slowest mail route from you. 

 

BofA used to sell their services to other companies and I once looked at them for an ambulance company I worked for that sent about a million bills per month.  They said they could promise a minimum of 12 days mail delay if we wanted to maximize late fees.  Really?  This is the type of business credit card banks run.  Keep playing the game, but remember that the house always wins.

[Crapster]

I preferred to capture a large chunk of rewards without having to manage a set of cards, so I went with the more *simple* use of a good Cash Back card. It’s a 2% cash reward card and allows the monthly cash back as a credit applied to the balance before paying the remaining balance. I didn't find I'd spend enough on specialty cards where above 2% would add up enough to be worth my time. (I do use a Chase AMAZON card tied only to my Amazon account for 5% cash back)

 

Cash Back translates to cash, easy peasy and eliminates the complication of “using” points and/or having to convert points to OBC’s.