Does Royal take Pinnacles for granted?

[Tree_skier]

3 hours ago, billslowsky said:

We did the minimum bid + $5 on my wife's room for balcony only,

I've got a bid in for an OS on Navigator.  I've bid minimum +$55 pp. We're in a OVP suite.  We'll see if I'm 0 for 7 in a couple of weeks.

[Starry Eyes]

4 hours ago, Karter said:

After reading all the replies I think it is one of two things.

 

1. It is purely random and status has no effect on cabin selected.

2. They look at the Pinnacle's history of onboard spending which is usually $0 and takes advantage of all the OBC they can get (next cruise, stock holders, Ta, etc.) and group bookings to get  the best price. Plus they know he will be back irregardless of the cabin provided. That may not be the case with with a second time cruiser.

 

I know Royal's IT department is not the best in the world but they could easily have an algorithm to maximize onboard spending and encourage those guests likely to spend more on board to return by giving preferential treatment when it comes to cabin selection. In the past before Royalup I saw a lot of first time cruisers get upgraded.

 

For me I think it is number 2. 

 

BTW The cabin was upgraded with a small Royalup bid by the Pinnacle.

 

 

 

Hmm, if Royal were really taking the Pinnacle for granted and knew he’d be back regardless, surely that would incorporate that knowledge into the RoyalUp algorithm, too.  So, by your diabolical logic😉), the inexpensive RoyalUp upgrade would have gone to a some other guest with a higher future spending potential, leaving the pinnacle in the obstructed cabin.  Oh, but the pinnacle got a cheap upgrade, so that’s not true!  
Back to the old days…there are lots and lots of newbies, way more newbies than pins, so by luck if draw, way more newbies will get gty upgrades than pins.  Upgrade fairy was always rare.  
 
Number 1.  Your C&A status has no bearing in your gty assignment and you should not have expected a better cabin than your friends.  

Edited January 12, 2023 by Starry Eyes

[Baron Barracuda]

We've booked gty a number of times and if we weren't thrilled with our cabin assignment looked for a better situated available one in the same category and asked to be moved.  Request was never denied.  With their experience Pinnacles should know to do this as well.

[John&LaLa]

4 hours ago, PWP-001 said:

Booking pace data gives a pretty good idea as to occupancy WEEKS IN ADVACE of sailing, plenty of time to adjust food orders for particular sailings.  A ten point vacancy on a ship translates to thousands of dollars saved in food cost by adjusting an order which is anything but "micro level."

 

I didn't mention electricity and only mentioned water because the desalinization and reverse osmosis process used is costly.  I don't care to do the math on gallons of consumption per cabin.

 

A micro view is one cabin.  The macro view is the 400 to 500 cabins that represent 10% of a ship.  That's a lot of food and a lot of water over a 7 day cruise.  

 

20 years ago American Airlines saved over $1 Million simply by eliminating a black olive from a salad.

 

Casino comps are a very profitable way to fill empty cabins-- because they only issue them to gamblers who have a general track record of losing enough money in the casino.  It's a fluke that they hand out a comp room to someone that just drops $20 in the casino.  

 

This discussion focused on whether it's profitable to sail with empty cabins, forgoing low-rev passengers who may result in negative cash flow with expenses exceeding revenue.  In these cases, zero cash flow would be better.

 

 

Food costs are around $15 per day per person. Even cheap cabins are around $75 per day. Better to fill the ship.

[Engineroom Snipe]

6 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Food costs are around $15 per day per person. Even cheap cabins are around $75 per day. Better to fill the ship.

 

The Oasis of the Seas displaces about 100,000 metric tons which is just shy of what a Nimitz class aircraft carrier weighs.

 

Assuming that 6,000 passengers weigh about 476 metric tons (according to Coast Guard load factor of 175 lbs per person and a metric ton being 2,204 lbs), Passengers represent less than 0.5% of the weight of the ship. The fuel is moving the ship, not passengers for all argument purposes.

 

The ship is burning the same amount of fuel whether it is empty or full. 99.6% for a ship without passengers and 100% with 6000 passengers. The crew size is static.

 

Just some thoughts that your estimate of $15 per day per person for food leaves about $50 per day per person to pay for fuel.

 

I would not like to spend fuel moving an empty cabin.

 

I would want those cabins full just to pay for the fuel. 🤔

 

 

 

[PWP-001]

1 hour ago, mark290 said:

This shows you have no idea what you are talking about. A casino does not look at how much you lost when giving out a comp, the house advantage takes care of this. A casino looks at how much you gamble and what you are gambling on. From there they know how much you will lose over time.

The odds spread out over all the gamblers takes care of the profit.

You're referring to Theo and that's how it should be.  And you're right.  Comp room offers are based upon points earned.

 

I was thinking of post-comps, which are based on actual loss.

 

[PWP-001]

2 hours ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

 

I am going to be my alter ego, "used car salesman". If I am losing money on the sale, I will tackle you before you get into the car, take the keys out of your hands, and keep it on the sales lot. 😠 

 

No large corporate service entity or widget maker keeps selling at a loss to a customer over and over unless they get something in return. I would say that somehow, you are useful to them (they are making a profit on you).  😉

Correct, though at the micro level there may be pax here and there that create a loss.  It's not worth finding those actual instances, singling them out and causing ill will.  Instead, like the program changes, for loyal elites where benefits are reduced, it's done at a broader scale and impacts everyone.

[Engineroom Snipe]

4 minutes ago, PWP-001 said:

  Instead, like the program changes, for loyal elites where benefits are reduced, it's done at a broader scale and impacts everyone.

 

So much easier to take one penny from one-hundred customers without a whimper than to take one-dollar from one who screams bloody murder?  🤫

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

 

The Oasis of the Seas displaces about 100,000 metric tons which is just shy of what a Nimitz class aircraft carrier weighs.

 

Assuming that 6,000 passengers weigh about 476 metric tons (according to Coast Guard load factor of 175 lbs per person and a metric ton being 2,204 lbs), Passengers represent less than 0.5% of the weight of the ship. The fuel is moving the ship, not passengers for all argument purposes.

 

The ship is burning the same amount of fuel whether it is empty or full. 99.6% for a ship without passengers and 100% with 6000 passengers. The crew size is static.

 

Just some thoughts that your estimate of $15 per day per person for food leaves about $50 per day per person to pay for fuel.

 

I would not like to spend fuel moving an empty cabin.

 

I would want those cabins full just to pay for the fuel. 🤔

 

They need a Nimitz carrier power plant. No more fuel costs😉

 

My Diamond aspiring son was a nuke on the Reagan. He'd sign on.🤣

[Karter]

3 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

Hmm, if Royal were really taking the Pinnacle for granted and knew he’d be back regardless, surely that would incorporate that knowledge into the RoyalUp algorithm, too.  So, by your diabolical logic😉), the inexpensive RoyalUp upgrade would have gone to a some other guest with a higher future spending potential, leaving the pinnacle in the obstructed cabin.  Oh, but the pinnacle got a cheap upgrade, so that’s not true!  
Back to the old days…there are lots and lots of newbies, way more newbies than pins, so by luck if draw, way more newbies will get gty upgrades than pins.  Upgrade fairy was always rare.  
 
Number 1.  Your C&A status has no bearing in your gty assignment and you should not have expected a better cabin than your friends.  

The Pinnacle did not expect a better cabin was just curious how assignments were done. When you book a guarantee you must be willing to take the worst cabin available. You are just gambling on the cabin to save a few $. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. For me as long as I am on the ship I am happy.

[Engineroom Snipe]

Just now, John&LaLa said:

 

They need a Nimitz carrier power plant. No more fuel costs😉

 

My Diamond aspiring son was a nuke on the Reagan. He'd sign on.🤣

 

The real cost of nuclear power is not the primary fuel or the technology needed to have an almost "unlimited power supply."

 

No one wants the spent nuclear fissionable waste in THEIR backyard. That is the ultimate problem.

 

The cost of powering with nuclear from start to finish was never realistically calculated by the Navy. Maybe that is why I spent so much of my life doing degrees so I can solve problems. Engineers can be tedious and boring but we find solutions.

 

What we do as a Nation to deal with the half-life isotopes which have to be safely stored for over two-hundred years is a major problem.

 

Kudos for your son being a nuke because he had to be extremely smart and responsible to be in the program. Nukes are known for being the best of the best.

 

I was in the riverine war mud-banks. I was led by a tunnel-rat. He was the toughest 5'4" superman I have ever met. My Chief Petty Officer went into hell with a double D cell flashlight and a 45 Smith and Weston revolver which would not jam under the worst circumstance. 

 

I digress. Sorry for the flashback.

 

I agree with you that RCI does need repeat customers to fill the cabins regardless of "perceived" profitability.

 

No need to thank your son for his service because he already knows who he is.

[Karter]

2 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

We've booked gty a number of times and if we weren't thrilled with our cabin assignment looked for a better situated available one in the same category and asked to be moved.  Request was never denied.  With their experience Pinnacles should know to do this as well.

Except you cannot change categories once assigned you can only change cabins within the same category.  If there are multiple cabins available in the assigned category you can ask to be put back in the pool and take your chances again. In this case there were no open cabins in the obstructed view category.

[Anton]

1 hour ago, John&LaLa said:

 

They need a Nimitz carrier power plant. No more fuel costs😉

 

My Diamond aspiring son was a nuke on the Reagan. He'd sign on.🤣

I was a nuke on Nimitz (an ELT specifically - your son will know what that is) 40 years ago on the originally installed reactor cores. 

[twangster]

4 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Food costs are around $15 per day per person. Even cheap cabins are around $75 per day. Better to fill the ship.

 

Plus the all important daily gratuity which is a component of crew compensation for select positions.  More people on board mean more of the labor costs are covered.   

[Engineroom Snipe]

2 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Plus the all important daily gratuity which is a component of crew compensation for select positions.  More people on board mean more of the labor costs are covered.   

 

You are absolutely correct. I would find it inefficient to try and constantly tweak crew sizes from week to week considering that as a crew member, I would want a six-month minimum continous contract.

 

Even $60 per day per person for the cabin covers food, fuel, and long term capital expenses. As you stated, that would include an additional $16 per person per day for labor expenses.

 

I know that cruise lines need every dime they can squeeze after the past two years but this post goes back to "Who loves you, baby?" (Kojak)

 

We can all love or hate Pinnacles but Pinnacles certainly love cruising. Mayby RCI should show them a little love.  😁🤣

[Starry Eyes]

5 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

I've got a bid in for an OS on Navigator.  I've bid minimum +$55 pp. We're in a OVP suite.  We'll see if I'm 0 for 7 in a couple of weeks.

Hmm, the OVP is sort of a niche item, as most people seem to want a balcony (and the bigger and more private the better).  I think it looks like a nice suite but others in my party might frown at the lack of balcony.
 

For you to win, somebody else in a lesser cabin you needs to place a strong enough bid for your current suite.  If others would rather have balcony suites, you’ll be in a weaker position.  I hope that person is bidding, too…otherwise you may go 0 for 7 

[RD64]

36 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

 

You are absolutely correct. I would find it inefficient to try and constantly tweak crew sizes from week to week considering that as a crew member, I would want a six-month minimum continous contract.

 

Even $60 per day per person for the cabin covers food, fuel, and long term capital expenses. As you stated, that would include an additional $16 per person per day for labor expenses.

 

I know that cruise lines need every dime they can squeeze after the past two years but this post goes back to "Who loves you, baby?" (Kojak)

 

We can all love or hate Pinnacles but Pinnacles certainly love cruising. Mayby RCI should show them a little love.  😁🤣

Why should they show them a little love when they can court the free spending newbies who will contribute so much more to the bottom line, and not complain about all the cutbacks and freebies that are no longer free.

[Engineroom Snipe]

13 minutes ago, RD64 said:

Why should they show them a little love when they can court the free spending newbies who will contribute so much more to the bottom line, and not complain about all the cutbacks and freebies that are no longer free.

 

In all fairness, after removing some of the rhetoric and vitriol, the free spending newbies are just that, free spending newbies. How long will they be around? Is this just a temporary fad that moves on to the next vacation destination like all inclusive resorts leaving the cruise lines in the wake (pun intended 😁) of vacations past?

 

As the old song goes, "Dance with the one who brought you" (Shania Twain).

 

Some of the newbies will transform into some of the "oldies". 🤣

 

Life is short, we cannot take ourselves too seriously. 😁

 

Do not throw away a small 5 pound flounder until you have a bigger fish on the hook. @island lady

Edited January 13, 2023 by Engineroom Snipe
additional insertion of humor

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, Anton said:

I was a nuke on Nimitz (an ELT specifically - your son will know what that is) 40 years ago on the originally installed reactor cores. 

 

Pat was an ET on Reagan. 4 years in Yokosuka. Will have to ask about ELT rate.

 

Says he would have stayed in, but to much pressure. 

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, Starry Eyes said:

Hmm, the OVP is sort of a niche item, as most people seem to want a balcony (and the bigger and more private the better).  I think it looks like a nice suite but others in my party might frown at the lack of balcony.
 

For you to win, somebody else in a lesser cabin you needs to place a strong enough bid for your current suite.  If others would rather have balcony suites, you’ll be in a weaker position.  I hope that person is bidding, too…otherwise you may go 0 for 7 

 

I love that cabin. Balconies are over rated. Can't beat the view of a vista suite

[John&LaLa]

31 minutes ago, RD64 said:

Why should they show them a little love when they can court the free spending newbies who will contribute so much more to the bottom line, and not complain about all the cutbacks and freebies that are no longer free.

 

We spent $900 on our last cruise. Not small potatoes for a 6 night trip

[Engineroom Snipe]

1 minute ago, John&LaLa said:

 

I love that cabin. Balconies are over rated. Can't beat the view of a vista suite

 

I have heard the same. I was never is a vista suite. Maybe someday........

[Engineroom Snipe]

2 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

We spent $900 on our last cruise. Not small potatoes for a 6 night trip

 

As stated in other threads, RCI can deny or rescind their cruise contract at will. It seems that RCI found your $900 expenditure to its liking. Welcome aboard and please bring some more potatoes on your next trip.  😄

[Tree_skier]

1 hour ago, Starry Eyes said:

Hmm, the OVP is sort of a niche item, as most people seem to want a balcony (and the bigger and more private the better).  I think it looks like a nice suite but others in my party might frown at the lack of balcony.
 

For you to win, somebody else in a lesser cabin you needs to place a strong enough bid for your current suite.  If others would rather have balcony suites, you’ll be in a weaker position.  I hope that person is bidding, too…otherwise you may go 0 for 7 

I grabbed this one ages ago when the itinerary was first released.  I got for the same price as a JS was going for.  It's kind of a unique cabin and Ensenada and Catalina aren't exactly going to be blazing hot at the end of Jan.  We usually like our balcony but I thought this would be an interesting change.  That being said, if I can upgrade to an OS for my, just above minimum, bid I'll take it.  

[Ocean Boy]

13 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

I love that cabin. Balconies are over rated. Can't beat the view of a vista suite

Can't beat sitting outside in fresh air listening to the sound of the ocean.