Reduced port stays

[MEFIowa]

And travelling outside of peak times makes a huge difference for prices and potential tour operators and guides available.

[ak1004]

2 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

And travelling outside of peak times makes a huge difference for prices and potential tour operators and guides available.

 

And also for cruise prices..

[LHT28]

6 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

This is probably the best of both worlds. But Spain Day Tours for example don't have that option. it's 14-18 people or private tour at set price.

 

So if you travel as a group of 6-8 people, then this is the best option. Even 1200 euro is only 150 euro per person. Otherwise you need to find random people to join the small group.

OK

I found  8-10 interested people on the roll call for my private tour  

one operator had a set price  for the van   max pax 12

I like to keep my tours  small & find some of the vans even though they say 12  it is more comfortable  with 8

 Enjoy

[pinotlover]

26 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

I agree with you about panoramic tours, and I agree about guests being late and/or lost.

 

But how private tours solve the issue? People on private tours cannot be late? Aren't private tours usually have the same passengers from the ship? People cannot get lost on private tours?

 

As an example, thanks to @Jayne E we booked couple private tours in our upcoming cruise on Riviera in May. Those tours are 5-7 hours and cost around 70-90 euro. Riviera has very similar tours (maybe 1-2 hours less) for around $140-170. So yes, it's double, but if you take oLife, you get them for $100 and the difference becomes very small. And I suspect that O tours might even be operated by the same operator. 

 

Of course the biggest advantage is much smaller groups (14-18 people), but even with O we had some tours with only 25 people, and usually no more than 30.

People late on private tours get left. The small private group doesn’t wait more than a few minutes for those choosing to show up late, forget passports, or whatever the excuse. 
 

A couple might sign up for a private tour they aren’t physically capable of. It happens once, and the tour captain removes them from any future similar tours. They aren’t allowed to do it day after day as O does.

 

I’m not sure where the myth, that if a ship tour is delayed the ship will wait indefinitely, comes from. Except in countries, like Russia previously, that requires all passengers leave with the ship, I’ve seen ships forced to leave both private and ship tour passengers. If a ship has to leave, it leaves port. The assistance those stranded passengers receive may well be different, but they still are waited for.

[ak1004]

48 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

People late on private tours get left. The small private group doesn’t wait more than a few minutes for those choosing to show up late, forget passports, or whatever the excuse. 
 

A couple might sign up for a private tour they aren’t physically capable of. It happens once, and the tour captain removes them from any future similar tours. They aren’t allowed to do it day after day as O does.

 

I’m not sure where the myth, that if a ship tour is delayed the ship will wait indefinitely, comes from. Except in countries, like Russia previously, that requires all passengers leave with the ship, I’ve seen ships forced to leave both private and ship tour passengers. If a ship has to leave, it leaves port. The assistance those stranded passengers receive may well be different, but they still are waited for.

 

No indefinitely, but the chances are much better that the ship will wait for the a ship excursion that is late. Nothing is 100%, and if they are forced to leave, they leave. But it's not their interest, as many people might lose one of the main incentives to book the ship excursions.

 

I have seen people get left on private tours and I have seen people get left on ship excursions.

[sofietucker]

19 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

No indefinitely, but the chances are much better that the ship will wait for the a ship excursion that is late. Nothing is 100%, and if they are forced to leave, they leave. But it's not their interest, as many people might lose one of the main incentives to book the ship excursions.

 

I have seen people get left on private tours and I have seen people get left on ship excursions.

We still prefer private tours, but once made it to the ship by a hair when the van broke down in the jungle (thankfully they could pop the clutch). Has made us plan for earlier return times...

 

I cynically wonder if part of the reason for these reduced port stays is to force booking O shorex: if arrival/departure is a moving target, as it now appears, that's the better bet. After every cruise, HAL anxiously asked us if we took private tours. "But why???" they ask. Smaller groups, cheaper and more in depth. Now we see that HAL (in spite of other failings) is offering small-group, more in depth tours... Not cheaper, tho, lol. (Not going back in any case.)

Edited March 29, 2023 by sofietucker

[susiesan]

3 hours ago, sofietucker said:

 

 

I cynically wonder if part of the reason for these reduced port stays is to force booking O shorex: if arrival/departure is a moving target, as it now appears, that's the better bet. 

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. 🤨

[ak1004]

We had a private excursion in Lisbon scheduled well in advance. When O moved the arrival time from 9am to 10am, we contacted the tour operator and asked to move the tour from 9:30 to 10:30. No issues at all, especially considering the notifications are sent well in advance. 

 

Call me naïve, but I don't believe that this is the reason.

 

That said, I'm really angry that they are using this bogus excuse of carbon reduction or whatever it's called. Do they consider their guests morons?

[LHT28]

1 minute ago, ak1004 said:

. Do they consider their guests morons?

Appears  so  🤔

[Guest ldtr]

5 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

No indefinitely, but the chances are much better that the ship will wait for the a ship excursion that is late. Nothing is 100%, and if they are forced to leave, they leave. But it's not their interest, as many people might lose one of the main incentives to book the ship excursions.

 

I have seen people get left on private tours and I have seen people get left on ship excursions.

I have seen people get left on ship excursions on various cruise lines due to extreme circumstances.  High winds in Skagway preventing a ferry from returning, a bird strike on a plane returning excursion passengers from Cusco to Lima, a recent mud slide in Costa Rica.  Some of those events included passengers doing tours on their own.  The big difference is that in the case of the people on the excursions the cruise line took care of all arrangements and expenses and in two of the cases made special stops at unscheduled ports to pick them up.  Those on independent tours were pretty much on their own to catch up to the ship at their own expense at a normally scheduled port.

[Guest ldtr]

I would put the reasons more in the camp of ports are getting busier and/or more restrictive when it comes to cruise ships.  More regulations are being passed requiring ships to sail at slower speeds in some waters.  Other environmental regulations are also impacting cruise ships.

[shepherd really]

A simple truth, anecdote is not the singular of data and is useless noise.

 

I'd really like to see actual statistics on people left behind from both private and ships tours if that exists.  Everything less is just guessing.

Edited March 29, 2023 by shepherd really

[SophieM]

Here is some interesting reading for those who find the reduced and canceled port stops suspicious. It may not change your minds, but it appears it may be an industry-wide issue. 
 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/environmental-health-0

[pinotlover]

1 hour ago, shepherd really said:

A simple truth, anecdote is not the singular of data and is useless noise.

 

I'd really like to see actual statistics on people left behind from both private and ships tours if that exists.  Everything less is just guessing.

Excluding those left drunk in a bar in some Carribe port by a main stream line, I’m betting that overall the number/ percentage of passengers left stranded at some port is so minuscule, it’s materially irrelevant. More a thing of ghost stories than actual occurrences.

[shepherd really]

4 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Excluding those left drunk in a bar in some Carribe port by a main stream line, I’m betting that overall the number/ percentage of passengers left stranded at some port is so minuscule, it’s materially irrelevant. More a thing of ghost stories than actual occurrences.

You see isolated incidents reported every couple of weeks on cruise industry Vlogs.  So even if it is underreported by a couple of orders of magnitude, it's rare.

[sofietucker]

1 hour ago, SophieM said:

Here is some interesting reading for those who find the reduced and canceled port stops suspicious. It may not change your minds, but it appears it may be an industry-wide issue. 
 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/environmental-health-0

Thank you. I especially liked this one: https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/environmental-health/net-zero-dominates-del-rio-wants-more-focus-cruisings-purpose 

Didn't know Del Rio is retiring in June! Wonder if he'll take along his art from the ships... But this, re: sustainability: 

'I think everybody cares about it to some degree. Will they pay for it?' Del Rio said. One of cruising's challenges is that pricing, compared to land vacations, is too low, and the gap is widening.

''Maybe we haven't focused enough on what product we're delivering. People will pay for whatever it is that is valuable to them. And it seems that the cruise industry has not kept up in terms of pricing. We have to do better there.'

Auugghhh!

[pinotlover]

Well Frank, let’s start with the basics. Are Oceania’s paying customers clamoring for more sea days and abbreviated port times? You seem to believe that not only is that what they want, but they are willing to pay more for it. 😳. Not sure you know your customer base as well as you think, or perhaps you’re trying to adjust your base to that model.

[MEFIowa]

Since we all know "fuel" is the problem, moving the ship from location to location, one wonders why there isn't more coordination for better overnight stops in high-quality ports? Instead of 9 ports over 10 nights in the Med, for example, why not 5 overnights in 5 great ports? So many possible ports for such stops. And instead of going to garbage port after garbage port in the Caribbean, find the best. Say what you will about the French or Dutch, for example, but their islands tend to be more interesting, cleaner, and safer. As for the "drunken or party cruises", there's always Miami to a private island in the Bahamas for 3 nights. Or Galveston to Belize private island. Stop just moving around and settle down for some ports.

[pinotlover]

17 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

Since we all know "fuel" is the problem, moving the ship from location to location, one wonders why there isn't more coordination for better overnight stops in high-quality ports? Instead of 9 ports over 10 nights in the Med, for example, why not 5 overnights in 5 great ports? So many possible ports for such stops. And instead of going to garbage port after garbage port in the Caribbean, find the best. Say what you will about the French or Dutch, for example, but their islands tend to be more interesting, cleaner, and safer. As for the "drunken or party cruises", there's always Miami to a private island in the Bahamas for 3 nights. Or Galveston to Belize private island. Stop just moving around and settle down for some ports.

While I agree with the concept of extending port stays, from Cpt Max’s report, port fees are often higher than deferential fuel fees . Plus commissions/leasing fees for shops and the casino are diminished.

[MEFIowa]

2 hours ago, pinotlover said:

While I agree with the concept of extending port stays, from Cpt Max’s report, port fees are often higher than deferential fuel fees . Plus commissions/leasing fees for shops and the casino are diminished.

Though if sustainability is a serious issue to be addressed, then cruising and cruises will likely be more expensive. Talk is cheap, virtue signaling is easy, but actual serious action to solve a problem is often expensive.

[sofietucker]

In summer 2020, our port (biggest int'l terminals on east coast) hosted 3 NCL ships for a few months, to the tune of a million a month for each ship. Or $35K per day. While that was in the US--and by now, practically "olden days,"--I wonder if said great ports charge the equivalent of 2 days for each overnight.

 

I've not been impressed in general with overnights when we cruise; seems we usually get in too late and leave too early to really immerse ourselves in those stops. Arriving at 3pm and leaving at 10am in Mykonos limits options (too short a time to visit Delos either day, for instance). But those times would suit the late-night party crowd (aka not us) for which that island is known... On our next cruise to Greece, we overnight there again--get in at 8pm and leave at 6pm. So a party night and beach day? Must be cheaper than circling in the water overnight...

 

I suppose we're all familiar with  the experience of "cruising" between islands where we're virtually stopped in the water overnight, waiting until we can dock in the morning--between San Juan and St Thomas or Tortola, for instance, or in the ABCs.  Because cheaper than paying the docking fee? Some of these ports, we've noticed from time to time, don't have another ship in port, so it can't simply be a parking space issue.

Again, a matter of knowing your customer.

Edited March 30, 2023 by sofietucker

[susiesan]

55 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

Though if sustainability is a serious issue to be addressed, then cruising and cruises will likely be more expensive. Talk is cheap, virtue signaling is easy, but actual serious action to solve a problem is often expensive.

I like this quote from the article:

 

Weinstein — making his first appearance on the panel since being promoted to CEO of Carnival Corp. last August — said cruises are 25% to 50% cheaper than a land-based vacation. 'We've got to do a better job communicating the value proposition of what a cruise is ... and we are working on that.'

 

I'd say a big not. Land based trips are always cheaper than cruises for me. It all depends on how and where you travel. 

 

 

 

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, susiesan said:

I like this quote from the article:

 

Weinstein — making his first appearance on the panel since being promoted to CEO of Carnival Corp. last August — said cruises are 25% to 50% cheaper than a land-based vacation. 'We've got to do a better job communicating the value proposition of what a cruise is ... and we are working on that.'

 

I'd say a big not. Land based trips are always cheaper than cruises for me. It all depends on how and where you travel. 

 

 

 

 

Yes, it all depends. If you book 2-3 star hotels and eat in McDonald's (and stay in the same place), then yes, it will be cheaper. But if you book comparable hotels, eat 3 times a day in good restaurants and move from city to city, then land trips will be MUCH more expensive. At least this is the case in Europe.

[osandomir]

9 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

Yes, it all depends. If you book 2-3 star hotels and eat in McDonald's (and stay in the same place), then yes, it will be cheaper. But if you book comparable hotels, eat 3 times a day in good restaurants and move from city to city, then land trips will be MUCH more expensive. At least this is the case in Europe.

It was reported that Oceania postponed summer 2025 release until September. My guess is that with the inflation like now they don’t want to offer cruises so far in advance at the current prices. Just another indicator - the prices will go up.

[ak1004]

3 minutes ago, osandomir said:

It was reported that Oceania postponed summer 2025 release until September. My guess is that with the inflation like now they don’t want to offer cruises so far in advance at the current prices. Just another indicator - the prices will go up.

 

Well.. maybe, but they have to remember they are not the only game in town. If they raise the prices by 10-15%, they will be close to SB (or even more expensive when you account for all inclusions). I doubt that people would book O if they can book SB at similar prices.

 

We recently booked SS cruise that was only 10% more than comparable cruise on O. If you account for the inclusions (drinks, gratuities and excursions), SS was actually cheaper.