Navigating Covid on Koningsdam

[soprano]

fellswoop, If you don't mind answering, when was your most recent COVID booster? We're thinking of getting an additional covalent booster 2 weeks before our cruise to increase the circulating antibodies in our system...not sure if that would help or not!  Thanks!!

[seaoma]

27 minutes ago, rubytue said:

Well, in our group, I think I was patient zero. Only 3 people tested positive while on the ship (known because we debarked together). I tested positive on day 4. 
 

Based on only the people answering a poll in the group, 4% of the passengers ended up with Covid. But that’s a guaranteed undercount. Based on this post versus my experience on the other line (NCL), well, let’s just say I much prefer HAL in so many ways. But, it’s a whole ship charter, and the charter company is a subsidiary of NCL… 

 

Yes, I can believe it's undercounted. On land, some estimate that the case count is undercounted by 20-30 times. 👀 

 

In my younger days, I would have enjoyed a cruise like what I imagine you were on. I'm just too old now and prefer a little bit of excitement and a whole lot of quiet, so HAL suits me just fine.

 

I will say that cruising now is somewhat disappointing for several reasons, but a big one is having to change our behavior so much to avoid covid. We are finishing up some Covid FCC on deposit and we may quit cruising after our fall cruise(just as we get our 4 star). If things are still the same, we're taking a break and doing more land trips. Cruising will either get better or it won't. 

 

You've just made me remember that I have a friend that was going to do a Rock and Roll charter. Several of those music charters sail this time of year, so I will have to reach out to him and see if it was on NCL. His son knew a band that was performing on the ship and he could bring a plus one, so he asked his Dad. Wish I could remember things...

[fellswoop]

13 minutes ago, Ingnacious said:

I was on a Viking cruise in November. Because of port requirements, wad to test everyday.I really believed the testing helped keep the numbers to under 14 (only know this number since 2 ports refused us even though we had less than 1% infection rate of all souls aboard per the captain). Very few masked. My friend and I did mask on elevators and when on excursions or in other closed areas. Never got Covid. The tell tale sign of those who had it were the trays and menus on the outside of the cabin,

 

I know the bigger ships can’t afford the testing, but it really helped stop the spread

16 minutes ago, Ingnacious said:

I was on a Viking cruise in November. Because of port requirements, we had to test everyday.I really believed the testing helped keep the numbers to under 14 (only know this number since 2 ports refused us even though we had less than 1% infection rate of all souls aboard per the captain). Very few masked. My friend and I did mask on elevators and when on excursions or in other closed areas. Never got Covid. The tell tale sign of those who had it were the trays and menus on the outside of the cabin,

 

I know the bigger ships can’t afford the testing, but it really helped stop the spread.

.

 

[seaoma]

17 minutes ago, Ingnacious said:

I was on a Viking cruise in November. Because of port requirements, we had to test everyday.I really believed the testing helped keep the numbers to under 14 (only know this number since 2 ports refused us even though we had less than 1% infection rate of all souls aboard per the captain). Very few masked. My friend and I did mask on elevators and when on excursions or in other closed areas. Never got Covid. The tell tale sign of those who had it were the trays and menus on the outside of the cabin,

 

I know the bigger ships can’t afford the testing, but it really helped stop the spread.

 

Were they doing the spit tests? I followed a guy on the Viking board who was posting, early in the cruise re-start, and it did seem that they had a very low number of cases onboard. Plus when you test everyday, it's easy to catch a sick person and get them quarantined quickly.

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by seaoma

[fellswoop]

Agree the trays outside of door accumulating are a giveaway but they did knock on our door each night to personally hand us the menu. 

[seaoma]

Holy cow, @rubytue I have just read through that thread over on NCL!

 

WOW

[fellswoop]

1 hour ago, soprano said:

fellswoop, If you don't mind answering, when was your most recent COVID booster? We're thinking of getting an additional covalent booster 2 weeks before our cruise to increase the circulating antibodies in our system...not sure if that would help or not!  Thanks!!

We had the bivalent in October two weeks before a cruise then.

[3rdGenCunarder]

In contrast to fellswoop's cruise, I was on Eurodam in the Caribbean at the same time. There were no rumors about covid cases. I was aft and walked to the spa each day, varying the deck so I could look at all the interesting vintage photos. I never saw red dots (don't know if Eurodam does that) and the few times I saw a tray in the hall, it didn't have a blue napkin over it. I rarely heard anyone coughing. 

 

Not a lot of people wore masks. I wore a mask in the bus on my excursions, but not at the beach or while we were walking in the rainforest. I did wear a mask when I went to performances, which was mostly LC--small room, chairs close together and full. If I went to the main showroom, I found a seat toward the back where there wouldn't be anyone nearby, and I wore a mask. I didn't go to Billboard or BBKing (no Rolling Stone on Eurodam) except to walk past a few times. I suspect they are likely spreaders because they're crowded, and people have masks off to drink. Anyone who wants to talk has to shout over the volume of the music. The louder you talk, the farther you expel air (and viruses). 

[syesmar]

@fellswoop Thank you so much for taking the time to share your experiences! These details are very helpful as I try to decide on the right time for me to sail again.

As far as testing negative, then positive, I have read from testing experts that this is common as  the load begins to wane. For some it just takes more time to clear completely. FDA even recommended 2 negatives 48 hours apart to end isolation or quarantine rather than a once-size-fits-all number of days.

I understand with their updated protocols you weren’t required to quarantine or go to a separate cabin, but did HAL offer you any FCC, or only him? (I would imagine their new guidelines in this regard are related to cost-saving measures. Their statement under “What if a guest tests positive?” could be interpreted in a couple of different ways https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/worry-free-promise/travel-well/frequently-asked-questions.html#boarding )

Prayers for your husband and also that you continue to stay healthy. All the Best!

Edited February 6, 2023 by syesmar

[rubytue]

14 hours ago, seaoma said:

Holy cow, @rubytue I have just read through that thread over on NCL!

 

WOW

I know, right?! Hence my original comment that after that experience, the HAL version seems downright tolerable. 😁

[IDLnyc]

22 hours ago, fellswoop said:

Also wanted to add I was allowed to leave room but only with a mask.

Let me add my thanks for your post on this important topic.  We were also on the 1/14 cruise r/t Hawaii.  I'm also a retired nurse - and chose to mask almost everywhere in public.  (By "almost", I  didn't mask when walking briskly out of the dining room or walking down empty halls - but I did mask in the gym, the theater, Lido lines, BB Kings, elevators,  at trivia, on shore excursions, etc.)

 

We were well until our disembarkation day, when we both developed coughs.   I also brought Covid tests with me.  We tested negative then, and have tested negative four more times since arriving home.  I'll say that this illness "felt different"  from Covid, which unfortunately I have already had twice.

 

Something, maybe more than one illness, was clearly circulating through the ship - we went to Lincoln Center stage on the last weekend.  Many people in the audience were coughing (much more than at the beginning of the cruise) and one of the players , coughing herself, had to excuse herself to go backstage for a sip of water.

 

We took four cruises last year, in March, June, September, and November - all but one on 'big' ships.  We caught Covid on the June cruise but had no problems on the other ones.

[fellswoop]

4 hours ago, syesmar said:

@fellswoop Thank you so much for taking the time to share your experiences! These details are very helpful as I try to decide on the right time for me to sail again.

As far as testing negative, then positive, I have read from testing experts that this is common as  the load begins to wane. For some it just takes more time to clear completely. FDA even recommended 2 negatives 48 hours apart to end isolation or quarantine rather than a once-size-fits-all number of days.

I understand with their updated protocols you weren’t required to quarantine or go to a separate cabin, but did HAL offer you any FCC, or only him? (I would imagine their new guidelines in this regard are related to cost-saving measures. Their statement under “What if a guest tests positive?” could be interpreted in a couple of different ways https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/worry-free-promise/travel-well/frequently-asked-questions.html#boarding )

Prayers for your husband and also that you continue to stay healthy. All the Best!

No FCC offered to me and wasn't expected.  Don't know if they figure in cost of room, hia, or Club Orange when they figure out FCC.

 .

[Ingnacious]

16 hours ago, seaoma said:

 

Were they doing the spit tests? I followed a guy on the Viking board who was posting, early in the cruise re-start, and it did seem that they had a very low number of cases onboard. Plus when you test everyday, it's easy to catch a sick person and get them quarantined quickly.

 

Hi Seaoma - yes, it was a spit test. It was gross and annoying to do, but in the end it was worth it as it seemed to keep more people from getting sick.

[fellswoop]

I did want to say that on other threads I have read (and I did read that NCL thread above linked by @rubytue) people say if they were positive they would not report. I think our cruise and timing was unique in that we had already completed all our port stops on the evening he began to feel sick and we only had 6 sea days ahead. But people who don't want to report need to check their moral compass. You have 2 room attendants coming in to clean and any room service people Plus if you are mingling with others you are spreading.  Covid is so much more contagious than a cold. The amount of viral load exposure seems important. Example you might be in an elevator with someone with a low viral load and be fine....but if someone has a high viral load, 1 cough or sneeze could impact others in an elevator. There were many elevator coughers! @3rdGenCunarder hit the nail when he said being in a loud music venue drinking makes you more likely to shout or talk louder thus potentially spraying more particles. At this point cruiselines are not going to tell us what is happening behind the scenes as it will affect the bottom dollar as many people are still on the fence about cruising. We won't stop cruising but we will make even more changes. Controversial opinion ahead.... I wish they would implement self testing (with your own home kit)  prior to the cruise again. Yes there will always be some narcissists who might be positive and go anyway...but most people will do the right thing.

[Colorado Klutch]

Before the vaccine was available, my family and multiple coworkers got COVID. I cared for Mrs. Klutch when she was very sick. I did multiple tests and they were always negative; even tests from a medical facility. And I never got sick. Mrs. Klutch says I'm a "Super Dodger". Who knows why some people get sick and some don't?

[HappyInVan]

36 minutes ago, fellswoop said:

I wish they would implement self testing (with your own home kit)  prior to the cruise again. Yes there will always be some narcissists who might be positive and go anyway...but most people will do the right thing.

 

+1

[rubytue]

43 minutes ago, Real NHDOC said:

And the sheets, towels and trash all gets mingled.  I'm certain that the "sanitizing" they do doesn't get all of the virus that's in there.  I have seen how carefully the cabins are cleaned and they certainly aren't sterilized.  Think about that on embarkation day.  That cabin you're moving into may very well have been an isolation ward a few hours before.

Well, I can report that, at least on NCL, I was followed around by a guy reminiscent of ghostbusters, who fogged my luggage, my room as I left, and the hallway behind me. 
 

Also, while I get the concern. Covid is airborne. There is little support for fomite transmission, at least last I looked into the data. It’s what you breathe, not what you touch. 

[StLouisCruisers]

12 minutes ago, rubytue said:

Well, I can report that, at least on NCL, I was followed around by a guy reminiscent of ghostbusters, who fogged my luggage, my room as I left, and the hallway behind me. 
 

Also, while I get the concern. Covid is airborne. There is little support for fomite transmission, at least last I looked into the data. It’s what you breathe, not what you touch. 

On Princess, they fog/mist the entire room when you depart and no one is allowed inside for several hours.  So they do more than whip through the room with a vacuum and change the sheets.  Therefore, those who don't report their symptoms to avoid quarantine are doing far more damage to the next occupant than the actual sick people did.

[seaoma]

53 minutes ago, Real NHDOC said:

The bottom line is this - COVID, like it or not, and whether you want to believe it or not it is all over the ships.  Whether you catch it or not is more a matter of luck than how you try to avoid it.  If you're concerned about it then it is best not to be on a cruise.  Now that they're letting the un-vaccinated onboard it will be worse as those are known to spread it more, and have worse symptoms than the vaccinated.  We caught it on Nieuw Statendam last summer at the end of our Iceland cruise but didn't know it until we got home.  Very mild symptoms that didn't slow us down (in my opinion thanks to vaccine). 

 

Yes, the bottom line is that covid is all over the ship, but I disagree about whether you catch it or not being a matter of luck. That only pertains to those people who aren't trying to mitigate it for themselves.I can tell you I didn't get covid because I spent 3 weeks on my Rotterdam cruise actively trying not to get it. 

 

I'm very grateful for the vaccine too, but I'm also grateful for my N95 and my education concerning those areas of the ship and the people I should avoid. I now travel with a CO2 monitor. It lets me know when it's not safe being somewhere on the ship, since there is a likelihood that there are covid positive people in that area.

 

I'm also concerned when I go out to my Doctor or Dentist's office where there are few to no one wearing masks and the space is not well ventilated. I guess I should quit going there too?

 

I really don't appreciate your statement that those of us that are concerned about covid should avoid cruising. The one that makes more sense to me is if you're going on a cruise, if you can't make an effort to not get sick or make others sick, then you shouldn't cruise. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

18 minutes ago, rubytue said:

Well, I can report that, at least on NCL, I was followed around by a guy reminiscent of ghostbusters, who fogged my luggage, my room as I left, and the hallway behind me. 
 

Also, while I get the concern. Covid is airborne. There is little support for fomite transmission, at least last I looked into the data. It’s what you breathe, not what you touch. 

 

You're right that airborne transmission is the main way it is spread. Early on, people worried about fomite transmission--remember when we "aged" our mail before opening it???? But we've learned so much about how Covid spreads since then. 

 

A woman at my table said she had caught covid on a previous cruise, 6 or 7 months ago. She described moving to quarantine with a crew member fogging the air behind her as "the walk of shame." 

 

There is an element of luck in whether you get covid on a cruise. You can't control how many people bring it onboard, or how those people behave. I was being careful about masking on QM2 when I caught it last September. I was less careful on Eurodam last month and I didn't catch it. But you can improve your odds by being careful, especially in close proximity to other people.  As I said earlier, I worry about crowded loud entertainment venues. Also tour buses. I wore a mask on the bus for my tours. My feeling is I do the best I can to keep healthy.

 

[terrydtx]

On 2/5/2023 at 2:39 PM, fellswoop said:

Oh...on day 2 he got a letter saying fcc for days in isolation would be put in his account.  We'll follow up on that

Looks like the way HAL treats Covid positive cases has changed to the better since last year. My wife tested positive for Covid 5 days from the end of our 14 day Oosterdam cruise from Venice last August and she was put in a Covid isolation inside cabin. I did not test positive until we were off the ship and it was very mild, no fever and a cough for 1 day.  My wife was only sick for 2 days with very mild symptoms but it took 8 days before she tested negative. It was a nightmare for us that included 4 days of quarantine in a Covid hotel in Vencie after the cruise. I do not want to rehash our other issues, but we got the same letter about getting an FCC for the 5 days of the cruise, we actually received the FCC last week, 4 months after the cruise. We were in a Signature Suite, so it was a sizable FCC.  The only problem is that it has to be used on a cruise that departs before January 31, 2024 or just 12 months. My TA called HAL last week and they would not extend the FCC any more than the 12 months. We did find a 7 day cruise in November on the Koningsdam in an Aft veranda cabin that the FCC will cover 100% including booking with Have it all. So we will get a free 1 week cruise out of all of this. We didn't really want to do a cruise in November, but also did not want to throw away $3600 FCC.

[Catlover54]

On 2/5/2023 at 6:46 PM, Ingnacious said:

I was on a Viking cruise in November. Because of port requirements, we had to test everyday.I really believed the testing helped keep the numbers to under 14 (only know this number since 2 ports refused us even though we had less than 1% infection rate of all souls aboard per the captain). Very few masked. My friend and I did mask on elevators and when on excursions or in other closed areas. Never got Covid. The tell tale sign of those who had it were the trays and menus on the outside of the cabin,

 

I know the bigger ships can’t afford the testing, but it really helped stop the spread.

 

What port still required daily testing November 2022?  South America, or Australia?

Thanks in advance.