Advice regarding Chinese visa

[Looking 4Answers]

Hi all,

Looking for some specific advice on a Chinese visa application.

Challenge #1: Application requests work history dating back to college graduation, including address of business, phone #, supervisor's name & phone #. In my case, work history dates back to 1979 - and the organizations I first worked for are now out out of business. This information is not available. Can I safely omit them from the application and start my work history in 1984? This is the first year for which I have a still-existing employer.

Challenge #2: Application requests listing of all education received since high school. In my case I transferred after freshman year and studied abroad junior year. However, application is structured so that once an institution is listed, applicant MUST indicate what type of diploma was received at that institution (BA, MA, PhD) before the form can be completed/submitted. Obviously, I did not receive a diploma from the university I transferred from, or from the school where I studied abroad, making it impossible to list them AND continue with the application.  Do I ignore the Catch-22 and fudge a full four years at the university I graduated from?

Challenge #3: Application asks if "any member of your family has served in the military or for a government organization." My brother served in the U.S. Navy and was then employed by the FBI, but is now retired. Will it be a problem to include the FBI? If so, can I safely omit it and say simply that he is U.S. Navy (retired)?

I have presented these questions to the firm that will process our applications and they have given us the following response: "answer as completely and honestly as possible." This response is NOT helpful. Any advice from fellow cruisers would be most appreciated.

[Philob]

Welcome to Cruise Critic.

 

If the moderators don't move it, it's best to ask this in the Ports of Call Asia board

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forum/43-asia/

 

Are you applying for an "L" tourist visa? ''cause this doesn't look like one.

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

OP:

Before anything else, you may want to contact both your cruise line and the nearest PCR consulate’s visa office.

There is a current visa exemption for tourists from certain countries including the US. who will make brief stays and, perhaps(?) use ship’s authorized tours.

Sorry that i don’t have the details (way from home where the paperwork sent by Oceania explained the exemption).

If a visa is required, and anyone reading this has an unexpired one from pre-pandemic times, note that many of those visas are currently suspended (based on their issue date. That means, if your cruise circumstances  are for any reason making a visa required, you will need to reapply.

As for the application, make sure you’re doing the right one (“L”) and, if at all possible, I recommend doing it “in person.” We use the San Francisco PCR consulate and, if there’s any problem with your application, a visa officer will contact you.

As for the application questions, all you can do is provide the answers you have and explain the circumstances for which you have no specific answer. If they want more info, they’ll let you know (perhaps another good reason to not add a third party [visa service] to the mix).

 

FWIW: The PCR wants to know as much about you as is possible. They are masterful at knowing everything about everybody who may ever cross their border, especially if you have professional relationships there.

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Flatbush Flyer

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, Looking 4Answers said:

Hi all,

Looking for some specific advice on a Chinese visa application.

Challenge #1: Application requests work history dating back to college graduation, including address of business, phone #, supervisor's name & phone #. In my case, work history dates back to 1979 - and the organizations I first worked for are now out out of business. This information is not available. Can I safely omit them from the application and start my work history in 1984? This is the first year for which I have a still-existing employer.

Challenge #2: Application requests listing of all education received since high school. In my case I transferred after freshman year and studied abroad junior year. However, application is structured so that once an institution is listed, applicant MUST indicate what type of diploma was received at that institution (BA, MA, PhD) before the form can be completed/submitted. Obviously, I did not receive a diploma from the university I transferred from, or from the school where I studied abroad, making it impossible to list them AND continue with the application.  Do I ignore the Catch-22 and fudge a full four years at the university I graduated from?

Challenge #3: Application asks if "any member of your family has served in the military or for a government organization." My brother served in the U.S. Navy and was then employed by the FBI, but is now retired. Will it be a problem to include the FBI? If so, can I safely omit it and say simply that he is U.S. Navy (retired)?

I have presented these questions to the firm that will process our applications and they have given us the following response: "answer as completely and honestly as possible." This response is NOT helpful. Any advice from fellow cruisers would be most appreciated.

 

I'll suggest you might be overthinking the application completion. I had similar issues and even had original employers in a different country.

 

I completed the questions, providing the information as known at the current time. For my first company in 1975, I recall putting down P&O SN Co - London. Didn't have any issue with either of my Chinese Visa requests.

[jsn55]

I did our visa apps in 2019 for a Yangtze River Cruise/Tour.  I don't remember any questions on employment or education that were as complex as those you're referring to.  Hopefully you qualify to use a much more simple form.  It was cumbersome but not that difficult.  I found the worst aspect of the whole process to be sending my passport off to an unknown entity.  THAT really bothered me.

[Looking 4Answers]

Hello all, and thank you for your replies. To those that have asked, yes, I am applying for an L tourist visa. And apparently I am experiencing what is  required in order to secure one in today's political climate. To be honest, if I had known how insane the application is, I never would have selected this cruise. We did some research and it seemed like a fairly simple process - which it seemed to be up until some point fairly recently. Anyway, we are using the China Online Visa Application (COVA). You fill it out, submit it online, and also send in (or present in person) a hard copy, along with your passport and a few other paper forms.  It consists of nine sections requiring extremely detailed information on work history, education, family, intended travel in China, past travel history, and multiple pages of personal information (criminal record, participation in paramilitary organizations, military service, employment by government organizations, experience with nuclear weapons (!), etc.). The most difficult thing about this application is that if every single detail asked for is not filled in, the application cannot be completed. So it is impossible to skip anything you can't provide. And they are literally asking me to provide things like the phone number of a supervisor who has been deceased for 20 years. I'm honestly at wit's end.

 

To the person who suggested in-person application: It seems that abandoning our third party advisor/applicant representative is going to be the best route to take.  Would you advise me to fill out the form as truthfully as possible, print it, and take it with me? Or simply make an appointment and go without a form? Also, if you don't mind my asking, how long after you visited the SF consulate were you advised of your status? Are do you know if applicants are given a chance to amend the application while they're at the consulate, or do they have to submit, wait for results, and reapply if necessary? 

 

Again, thanks to all who have replied and offered advice. I really appreciate that you've taken time from your day!!!! You've all been very helpful!!

[jsn55]

If it helps at all, we really were disappointed with our China trip in 2019.  It was a very expensive Viking Yangtze cruise/tour with a completely incompetent tour leader.  Fascinating to see a lot of places/things, the ship and hotels were fabulous.  But we both came home full of sorrow for the Chinese people who live in such awful conditions and experience such horrible air pollution.  Just so very depressing to see humans living like that.  The internal flights were beyond awful, so much time wasted waiting.  You might consider booking another destination ... things in China are probably worse now than they were in 2019.  I really regret spending all that money only to come home wishing we hadn't taken the trip.   

[sfaaa]

14 hours ago, Looking 4Answers said:

My brother served in the U.S. Navy and was then employed by the FBI, but is now retired. Will it be a problem to include the FBI? If so, can I safely omit it and say simply that he is U.S. Navy (retired)?

 

Do not provide this info to the Chinese government without your brother's consent. This may have serious implication to you or your brother in the hand of a foreign government deemed unfriendly to US. Given the intrusive questions on the Chinese visa application,  I would cancel the cruise if I were you.

[Looking 4Answers]

Thanks again to all of you that have replied. My husband and I have talked it over and decided to pull the plug. We're re-booking for an itinerary that doesn't include China. I really appreciate everyone's input!

[Meander Ingwa]

Thank you for the insightful topic.  I started filling out the form in my head as a mind exercise.  How many defunct businesses (4) and dead supervisors (2) will they overlook

[Flatbush Flyer]

20 hours ago, Looking 4Answers said:

Hello all, and thank you for your replies. To those that have asked, yes, I am applying for an L tourist visa. And apparently I am experiencing what is  required in order to secure one in today's political climate. To be honest, if I had known how insane the application is, I never would have selected this cruise. We did some research and it seemed like a fairly simple process - which it seemed to be up until some point fairly recently. Anyway, we are using the China Online Visa Application (COVA). You fill it out, submit it online, and also send in (or present in person) a hard copy, along with your passport and a few other paper forms.  It consists of nine sections requiring extremely detailed information on work history, education, family, intended travel in China, past travel history, and multiple pages of personal information (criminal record, participation in paramilitary organizations, military service, employment by government organizations, experience with nuclear weapons (!), etc.). The most difficult thing about this application is that if every single detail asked for is not filled in, the application cannot be completed. So it is impossible to skip anything you can't provide. And they are literally asking me to provide things like the phone number of a supervisor who has been deceased for 20 years. I'm honestly at wit's end.

 

To the person who suggested in-person application: It seems that abandoning our third party advisor/applicant representative is going to be the best route to take.  Would you advise me to fill out the form as truthfully as possible, print it, and take it with me? Or simply make an appointment and go without a form? Also, if you don't mind my asking, how long after you visited the SF consulate were you advised of your status? Are do you know if applicants are given a chance to amend the application while they're at the consulate, or do they have to submit, wait for results, and reapply if necessary? 

 

Again, thanks to all who have replied and offered advice. I really appreciate that you've taken time from your day!!!! You've all been very helpful!!

What I would advise you to do is to make sure the application you’re using is actually the PRC’s actual form - downloaded from an actual PRC consular website. There are tons of visa “services” that try to make themselves sound official and some of them are scams. Same holds true for googled phone numbers. Lots of “pretend” phone numbers.

 

This is the correct webpage for San Francisco:

http://sanfrancisco.china-consulate.gov.cn/eng/lszj/zgqz/

and here is the correct form.

http://sanfrancisco.china-consulate.gov.cn/eng/lsbgxz/

Note that you also need to make an appointment for in person submission

Edited July 28, 2023 by Flatbush Flyer

[Looking 4Answers]

4 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

What I would advise you to do is to make sure the application you’re using is actually the PRC’s actual form - downloaded from an actual PRC consular website. There are tons of visa “services” that try to make themselves sound official and done of them are scams.

This is the correct page for San Francisco:

http://sanfrancisco.china-consulate.gov.cn/eng/lszj/zgqz/

and here is the correct form.

Note that you also need to make an appointment.

Hello - yes, we were using the correct form. For those interested, it's here: https://cova.mfa.gov.cn/qzCoCommonController.do?show&pageId=278VcVmVnVPr1V8VKrIVSVlVYV8VYVlVSVcV8VcrkVSrjrjVmVaVSVYVlVmr1rjr1VlVmVPVPVPVYVlVa&DataSource=2&locale=en_US

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, Looking 4Answers said:

Thanks again to all of you that have replied. My husband and I have talked it over and decided to pull the plug. We're re-booking for an itinerary that doesn't include China. I really appreciate everyone's input!

IMO, big mistake to lose a wonderful experience because of a cumbersome visa process. 

[Looking 4Answers]

6 minutes ago, Looking 4Answers said:

Hello - yes, we were using the correct form. For those interested, it's here: https://cova.mfa.gov.cn/qzCoCommonController.do?show&pageId=278VcVmVnVPr1V8VKrIVSVlVYV8VYVlVSVcV8VcrkVSrjrjVmVaVSVYVlVmr1rjr1VlVmVPVPVPVYVlVa&DataSource=2&locale=en_US

...a little more info...this is not a consulate-specific site. It's sort of a "master" site maintained by the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs that allows people anywhere in the world, of any nationality to apply for a visa at any PRC consulate. It is not U.S.-only.

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 minutes ago, Looking 4Answers said:

Hello - yes, we were using the correct form. For those interested, it's here: https://cova.mfa.gov.cn/qzCoCommonController.do?show&pageId=278VcVmVnVPr1V8VKrIVSVlVYV8VYVlVSVcV8VcrkVSrjrjVmVaVSVYVlVmr1rjr1VlVmVPVPVPVYVlVa&DataSource=2&locale=en_US

That’s the online visa application, which requires you to send them your passport.

Perhaps, that’s why your finding so many questions. Compare that application to the one  for which I posted the above SF PRC Consulate link and you’ll see a significant difference.

Of course, in part because I have close access  in SF to consulates of many countries, I don’t have to risk sending a passport in the USPS  Mail (and getting it back). Nonetheless I still recommend “in person” even if it requires  a flight to a “nearby” city (e.g., we’d need to go to L.A. for some foreign consulates.

[Looking 4Answers]

2 minutes ago, Looking 4Answers said:

...a little more info...this is not a consulate-specific site. It's sort of a "master" site maintained by the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs that allows people anywhere in the world, of any nationality to apply for a visa at any PRC consulate. It is not U.S.-only.

...and if I haven't mentioned it, they require proof of airline tickets, cruise itinerary, and hotel reservation at time of visa application.

[Looking 4Answers]

2 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

That’s the online visa application, which requires you to send them your passport.

Perhaps, that’s why your finding so many questions. Compare that application to the one  for which I posted the above SF PRC Consulate link and you’ll see a significant difference.

Of course, in part because I have close access  in SF to consulates of many countries, I don’t have to risk sending a passport in the USPS  Mail (and getting it back). Nonetheless I still recommend “in person” even if it requires  a flight to a “nearby” city (e.g., we’d need to go to L.A. for some foreign consulates.

When did you apply? I have been told that applicants as early as this past January had a much simpler form.

 

[Looking 4Answers]

Just now, Looking 4Answers said:

When did you apply? I have been told that applicants as early as this past January had a much simpler form.  Also, I finally got Silversea's attention with this issue and they're looking into it.

 

 

[Looking 4Answers]

Just now, Looking 4Answers said:

...and also, this is the form Silversea's travel documents people sent me to.

 

[Looking 4Answers]

One more point, sorry, the system I've encountered requires the application to be submitted online, and then submitted in hard copy with a passport, either in person or by a designated representative. You can't skip the online submission.

[Looking 4Answers]

Hi again everyone, OP here. This topic has raised quite a bit of interest, so I thought I would give anyone who wants to dive a little deeper all of the info available. I'm providing the link that was provided by Pinnacle Travel Document Systems, the company that supports Silversea travelers. Once I got deep into the weeds I did a lot of research on the topic of Chinese visas, which is difficult to share here, but the short results are that I found absolutely nothing encouraging. It appears that all of the detail required here is very recent and inexplicable. Anyway, have fun poking around and feel free to share thoughts. If you missed my post from earlier this morning, we've canceled this cruise and are opting for something that doesn't involve a visit to China.

https://pinnacle.gettraveldocs.com/expedited-visa-services/China-Tourist-Visa-Washington DC-visa-instructions46-566-1-3-FL-US#docRequirements

[sfaaa]

You have made the right decision to cancel. Here's another reason why.

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/china-travel-advisory.html

 

There are many interesting and culturally enriching places to visit in Asia. Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore. Malaysia, Thailand just to name a few. All these countries are friendly to US and don't require US citizens to obtain a visa to visit. I came back from a Singapore/Malaysia/Thailand cruise earlier this year and had a fabulous time.  

[Keksie]

37 minutes ago, sfaaa said:

You have made the right decision to cancel. Here's another reason why.

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/china-travel-advisory.html

 

There are many interesting and culturally enriching places to visit in Asia. Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore. Malaysia, Thailand just to name a few. All these countries are friendly to US and don't require US citizens to obtain a visa to visit. I came back from a Singapore/Malaysia/Thailand cruise earlier this year and had a fabulous time.  

Exactly.  There is no way I would put myself under the control of an unfriendly foreign country.

[Looking 4Answers]

Yes, it seems that relations between the U.S. and China are deteriorating rapidly. It could get worse by the cruise date (early April) resulting in last minute disruptions. My husband and regret missing out on things we've wanted to see for years, but feel rather relieved by our decision