Nieuw Statendam - Israel War Breaking Out

[canadianbear]

39 minutes ago, crystalspin said:

It never occurred to me to leave contact info for private excursions in Alaska, South America, Italy, Croatia. But -- my cell phone carrier is T-Mobile and HAL has the number.

Being Canadian we always have our phones on airplane mode when on an excursion (if we even take them off the ship & then it’s usually just to take photos).   I do leave our itinerary with our family but will leave more detailed info now on longer cruises.  

[canadianbear]

19 minutes ago, bennybear said:

 

I think we all can learn a lot too from this thread.  Our ultimate safety depends on us being prepared and taking appropriate measures.  I don’t think one can completely count on others in an emergency. A working phone is a small cost in the scheme of things. 

I do know if we were in an emergency situation we’d certainly turn our phones on IF we had them with us.  Usually we are on snorkel excursions so leave our phones on the ship but hopefully others would have them.  You are so right-this thread has been an eye opener. 

[Heidi13]

15 hours ago, joeyancho said:

I am not in charge of anything but I think it will be quite a while before any ships dock in Isreal.  It would be grossly irresponsible to take tourists to a war zone.  What insurance company would cover that?  

 

It will be long after the area is no longer an active war zone, as in addition to being irresponsible, the operational costs increase significantly.

 

Standard hull & machinery policies on commercial vessels do not normally cover war zones, so expensive war coverage is required. I expect the ITF would also negotiate war bonus payments for the crew. Therefore, in addition to increased risks, operational cost are significantly higher in a war zone.

 

With respect to insurance, I expect a Lloyd's Syndicate would provide coverage, if requested, but the premiums will be excessive.

[ferretktf]

Just to provide some clarity, as there is a degree of misinformation floating around.

 

There were no rockets over Haifa or anywhere near Haifa, Nazareth or Galilee. Because of this there were no concern over tours departing the port.

 

our tour guide told us that our Jerusalem trip two days later was in doubt due to the attack by Hamas in the South. This was just after we boarded the coach. He reassured us that where we were in Haifa was safe.

the call to abandon tours and return to the ship did NOT come from the US State Department or HAL executives.  It came from the Israeli Ministry of Tourism at 10.30 am.  All registered tour guides were contacted throughout Israel and were told that all tourist tours had to cease immediately , with guests returned to their origins, be that Hotels, Cruise Ships or wherever.

this was a blanket instruction to the whole country, so it included us in Haifa - which remained safe and a long way away from the nearest missile.

there were NO fighter jets flying over the ship at any time, contrary to other stated reports.  The ship left port some 10 hours later, after waiting for two passengers who travelled independently without a tour guide and, like perhaps the majority, did not have international roaming in Israel so could not be contacted by the Ship - who DID have the cellphone contact of EVERY passenger on board - its part of standard registration.
 

There were also additional delays due to a medical emergency and the unavailability of a pilot. However, and I stress this, at no time was the ship under any threat whatsoever. Had it been then undoubtedly we would have left port sooner, with ground agents assigned to look after the final two passengers.


 

 

[ferretktf]

33 minutes ago, canadianbear said:

I do know if we were in an emergency situation we’d certainly turn our phones on IF we had them with us.  Usually we are on snorkel excursions so leave our phones on the ship but hopefully others would have them.  You are so right-this thread has been an eye opener. 

The final two passengers would have had no knowledge that they were in an emergency situation.  Haifa was completely “normal” and unless locals approached them and told them that elsewhere in the country there had been attacks they would have been oblivious to this.(and even if that had happened they still would probably not have considered that it warranted an immediate return to the ship, as these attacks were happening “elsewhere”)

Edited October 9, 2023 by ferretktf

[syesmar]

3 hours ago, Vict0riann said:

We heard from friends on board that the ship contacted the missing couple's family at home to ask if they knew where they were going, and were told they would be visiting friends locally, and that way the ship was able to contact them and get them back to the ship.

That’s good to know. I do leave a detailed itinerary with phone numbers for our independent excursion companies and guides with our emergency contacts, and definitely will continue to do so after reading this.

 

I think in the future I will make an extra copy for security, too, as another poster suggested. I wonder if uploading such information into our HAL account (if such an opportunity existed) would be helpful in these types of situations. 

 

I know that some passengers choose to overnight independently to make the most of their time while in Israel for 3-4 days. For those who have done this independently, are you required to inform the ship of your hotel and itinerary details?

[Heidi13]

7 hours ago, CNSJ said:

 

my guess is HAL leadership had to be woke up and approve recall and departure.  

 

 

Negative, as per the ISM Code, the Master has the overriding authority to make decisions regarding safety. However, prior to making an effective decision, they require information, which will come from the local Port Agent.

 

Since the ships are registered in Netherlands, the MARSEC Level is determined by the local port or the Dutch Govt. I doubt the Master paid any attention to anything from the US State Dept. If at anytime the Master had concerns for the safety of the ship or her pax/crew, s/he has the authority to recall pax/crew and sail immediately.

 

The Master advises the operations dept of the decision and can request their assistance to implement the decision. As with many large shipping lines, I expect HAL has an Operation Office, manned on a 24/7 basis, so nobody to wake up.

[ferretktf]

1 minute ago, syesmar said:

 

I know that some passengers choose to overnight independently to make the most of their time while in Israel for 3-4 days. For those who have done this independently, are you required to inform the ship of your hotel and itinerary details?

Yes and No,
 

after you have disembarked the ship do not know when you are returning, and you do not need to tell them… as long as you return by the time the ship is due to leave that port … in the case of Haifa that was 10:30pm the following night. You are free to leave and come back whenever  you wish.
 

However in the event of you disembarking in one port (e.g. Haifa) and re-embarking in a different one (e,g, Ashdod) then you need to let the ship know this so that they can get the passenger count correct for the first port.  I suspect (but don’t know for certain) that the ship would ask for additional contact details in this event in case there were issues with the timings of the subsequent port.

 

[syesmar]

7 minutes ago, ferretktf said:

…There were no rockets over Haifa or anywhere near Haifa, Nazareth or Galilee. Because of this there were no concern over tours departing the port.…

An additional note: There were rockets in Tel Aviv prior to the buses leaving at 8am. And air raid sirens went off in Jerusalem at 6:30am.

 

Glad you are okay. Hope you enjoy the remainder of your cruise.

[ferretktf]

Just now, syesmar said:

An additional note: There were rockets in Tel Aviv prior to the buses leaving at 8am. And air raid sirens went off in Jerusalem at 6:30am.

 

Glad you are okay. Hope you enjoy the remainder of your cruise.

Yes this was known (and commented on by our tour guide when we boarded the coach) but, as I said, there were no rockets in Haifa or the North, which was (correctly) considered safe.
 

It was only when the Israeli ministry of tourism decided on a blanket countrywide notification at 10:30am that tours were then cancelled. This was not due to Haifa suddenly becoming “unsafe” but the Israelis trying to ensure full control of the situation as regards tourists.

[syesmar]

26 minutes ago, ferretktf said:

Yes and No,
 

after you have disembarked the ship do not know when you are returning, and you do not need to tell them… as long as you return by the time the ship is due to leave that port … in the case of Haifa that was 10:30pm the following night. You are free to leave and come back whenever  you wish….

Thanks for the detailed info. I have had overnights in Barcelona, Venice and Istanbul and never had to turn in any info and there were no curfews that first evening, but I was curious if it was different for Haifa or Ashdod. I wonder if they’ll update their policy in the future to request that guests leave their details when overnighting off the ship during a visit with an overnight in port?

All the Best!

Edited October 9, 2023 by syesmar

[Tangocherie]

We have friends aboard N Statendam. They are astonished pax where able to leave the ship even though rockets had been fired from 6:30 am!

[Torquer]

3 hours ago, ferretktf said:

....so could not be contacted by the Ship - who DID have the cellphone contact of EVERY passenger on board - its part of standard registration.

Is that "standard registration" you are talking about something specific to cruises that go to Israel?  It is certainly not correct on any cruise we have ever been on.  I doubt if the phone number you give when you book a cruise is an actual cell phone contact number for the majority of people on a cruise; it could be their home landline, their cell phone number but they don't have an international roaming plan while on the cruise, or like in our case, they buy a foreign sim card for their phone when they arrive in the foreign country but we don't know this number ahead of time when we book the cruise so HAL doesn't have it.

 

Some other people said they plan to give their travel plans and contact info to security as they get off the ship.  I sure hope not!  Can you imagine how that would slow down the process of getting off the ship if everyone did that.  Now maybe HAL should have a plan for acquiring this info, but having everyone do it as they leave the ship in a port is not the answer.

[ferretktf]

6 hours ago, Tangocherie said:

We have friends aboard N Statendam. They are astonished pax where able to leave the ship even though rockets had been fired from 6:30 am!

I am on the ship and I am not astonished in the slightest. There was not a problem in Haifa.   Haifa was not close to the conflict areas (and remained so).  Haifa would have been safe that day but the Israeli Ministry (correctly) opted for "safety first" and effectively closed the country down for tourism at 10:30am.    

[ferretktf]

5 hours ago, Torquer said:

Is that "standard registration" you are talking about something specific to cruises that go to Israel?  It is certainly not correct on any cruise we have ever been on.  I doubt if the phone number you give when you book a cruise .....................

 

.............Now maybe HAL should have a plan for acquiring this info, but having everyone do it as they leave the ship in a port is not the answer.

Not when you book but when you check-in you provide contact details.  I have mentioned that this does not cover those who do not have International Roaming (or change Sim Cards in your example) so this is not perfect but it is the best that HAL (and all other Cruise Ships) can do really.

And as I mentioned, I also think that those who believe "every single passenger each time they disembark should hand over full contact info for the day" are massively over-reacting.  HAL reached all but 2 passengers using existing methods.  That counts as a great success in my book.

[casaloma]

It's 56 miles from Haifa to Tel Aviv.  I live in Olympia, which is roughly 60 miles from Seattle.  I do NOT want to hear that Settle has been invaded while I go about my sightseeing in Olympia!.  I also am struggling with visitors to Haifa being totally unaware anything was wrong.  Again, if Seattle is bombarded and invaded, the news will probably make its way to us here in Olympia.  I would never have gotten on a tour bus if I'd known what was happening.  No one had any reason to believe it was going to be localized.  Thank God it was, but there was no guarantee.  

[CNSJ]

15 hours ago, PhilRSchultz said:

Different strokes for different strokes, but in my opinion Ephesus and Troy trump all other alternatives for replacing Israel port dates and I hope that’s where my looming cruise changes to

We stop in Kusadasi in a few days…. That’s prob why HAL didn’t go there.

[CNSJ]

14 hours ago, ferretktf said:

Just to provide some clarity, as there is a degree of misinformation floating around.

 

There were no rockets over Haifa or anywhere near Haifa, Nazareth or Galilee. Because of this there were no concern over tours departing the port.

 

our tour guide told us that our Jerusalem trip two days later was in doubt due to the attack by Hamas in the South. This was just after we boarded the coach. He reassured us that where we were in Haifa was safe.

the call to abandon tours and return to the ship did NOT come from the US State Department or HAL executives.  It came from the Israeli Ministry of Tourism at 10.30 am.  All registered tour guides were contacted throughout Israel and were told that all tourist tours had to cease immediately , with guests returned to their origins, be that Hotels, Cruise Ships or wherever.

this was a blanket instruction to the whole country, so it included us in Haifa - which remained safe and a long way away from the nearest missile.

there were NO fighter jets flying over the ship at any time, contrary to other stated reports.  The ship left port some 10 hours later, after waiting for two passengers who travelled independently without a tour guide and, like perhaps the majority, did not have international roaming in Israel so could not be contacted by the Ship - who DID have the cellphone contact of EVERY passenger on board - its part of standard registration.
 

There were also additional delays due to a medical emergency and the unavailability of a pilot. However, and I stress this, at no time was the ship under any threat whatsoever. Had it been then undoubtedly we would have left port sooner, with ground agents assigned to look after the final two passengers.


 

 

Thank you for the clarity on the recall decision.

 

However, it was clear enough that I could see IAF jets at high speed flying north to south over Haifa area.  You are correct, they were not “right over ship” - but from the jogging track on Deck 11, you could hear and see them. 

[CNSJ]

19 minutes ago, CNSJ said:

this was a blanket instruction to the whole country, so it included us in Haifa - which remained safe and a long way away from the nearest missile.

Totally agree the ship was relatively safe in Haifa Harbor.  It is an Israeli Navy port and a ways from Gaza, but not Lebanon. 

 

I do not agree they should have let the tours continue.  In the opening hours, I am sure there were and still are concerns about attacks within Israel reacting to Hamas’ call to arms. Tour buses are easy targets. 

 

Thankfully we were not in Ashdod, as scheduled for Monday. Well within rocket range of Gaza. 

 

Also, consider that  With hundreds on overnight tours to Jerusalem Sun-Mon and the ship sailing Haifa to Ashdod on Sunday night without those guests, getting them out of Israel would have been a mess as the ship would not have pulled in to get them.  

[whogo]

Are warnings sent out to cell phones in Israel, something like the Emergency Alert System in the USA?

[syesmar]

6 hours ago, ferretktf said:

Not when you book but when you check-in you provide contact details…I also think that those who believe "every single passenger each time they disembark should hand over full contact info for the day" are massively over-reacting….

It would be convenient in the future for guests to have an option to enter their details online. If not, I would imagine those who wish to turn it in to someone on board, e.g., front desk, etc., can also do so (not necessarily when departing for the day, agree that would cause delays if everyone did so).

32 minutes ago, CNSJ said:

…Also, consider that  With hundreds on overnight tours to Jerusalem Sun-Mon and the ship sailing Haifa to Ashdod on Sunday night without those guests, getting them out of Israel would have been a mess as the ship would not have pulled in to get them.  

Agree. Grateful the ship was able to locate everyone as quickly as they did. If it had not been on a Saturday there likely would have been more independent travelers and complications. 

 

Wishing you all aboard Nieuw Statendam the best for the remainder of your sailing!

Edited October 10, 2023 by syesmar

[HappyInVan]

The best way of avoiding trouble is to avoid conflict zones. The entire region; Palestine, Red Sea, Persian Gulf is a conflict zone that has turned hot.

 

Reminds me of the Tet Offensive of 1968. Game changer.

[Heidi13]

5 hours ago, CNSJ said:

Thank you for the clarity on the recall decision.

 

However, it was clear enough that I could see IAF jets at high speed flying north to south over Haifa area.  You are correct, they were not “right over ship” - but from the jogging track on Deck 11, you could hear and see them. 

 

Been in Haifa many times on both cruise ships and cargo ships and seeing/hearing jets was not uncommon. They also used to tour the harbour in RIB's, throwing anti-personnel charges into the water alongside the ships all night long.

[Laminator]

5 hours ago, syesmar said:

It would be convenient in the future for guests to have an option to enter their details online. If not, I would imagine those who wish to turn it in to someone on board, e.g., front desk, etc., can also do so (not necessarily when departing for the day, agree that would cause delays if everyone did so).

Agree. Grateful the ship was able to locate everyone as quickly as they did. If it had not been on a Saturday there likely would have been more independent travelers and complications. 

 

Wishing you all aboard Nieuw Statendam the best for the remainder of your sailing!

I just checked in for an upcoming cruise in early November. HAL asks for a secondary phone number. You have the ability to opt in for text messages to be received at that secondary number. I would recommend everyone do so. This is why being a frequent traveler I have TMobile. I don't have to worry about roaming charges when I am out of the country. 

[Heidi13]

9 hours ago, casaloma said:

It's 56 miles from Haifa to Tel Aviv.  I live in Olympia, which is roughly 60 miles from Seattle.  I do NOT want to hear that Settle has been invaded while I go about my sightseeing in Olympia!.  I also am struggling with visitors to Haifa being totally unaware anything was wrong.  Again, if Seattle is bombarded and invaded, the news will probably make its way to us here in Olympia.  I would never have gotten on a tour bus if I'd known what was happening.  No one had any reason to believe it was going to be localized.  Thank God it was, but there was no guarantee.  

 

You are hardly comparing apples to apples.

 

I used to dock in Haifa every fortnight and while they had no active war, they had border incidents and war was always a potential. We were well aware of the risks of taking tours to Tel Aviv & Jerusalem. We observed the local security measures and were comfortable with the risks. The locals lived with these risks on a daily basis.

 

To the south of Tel Aviv, air raid sirens were a fairly common occurrence, even before the current troubles, which is about 90 - 100 miles from Haifa, and about 35 miles from Tel Aviv. Until the recent escalation, life continued as normal, or at least as normal as life can be in Israel. Even in Haifa today, I expect with the exception of added security, life in the city is reasonably normal.

 

In Olympia, and where I live in Metro Vancouver, we experience a rather safe environment, where we have not experienced multiple wars. If armed conflict arose in the furthest reaches of Metro Vancouver, about 50 miles away, we would be extremely concerned and embarking on a tour would be the least of our worries. I note we also don't have anywhere close to the same levels of daily security measures they have in Israel.

 

Using your analogy, no ships would ever visit Ashdod, yet before the current escalation, many cruise ships have visited safely, even with the previous skirmishes in the south of the country.

 

Nobody is privy to the information available to the Master when the tours started leaving. If pax did have relevant information, if concerned for their safety, they should have declined to embark the tour bus, as we are primarily responsible for our own safety. Not aware of any pax that took this option.

 

If information was readily available that Tel Aviv was under rocket attack and the "Iron Dome" defenses had failed to intercept all incoming rockets, I'll suggest no tours would have headed south, but local Haifa, Caesarea National Park and possibly Nazareth/Galilee tours would have gone ahead, until the Ministry of Tourism shut them down.