Ship Design / Amenity idea submission?

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

One of the biggest challenges the cruise lines face is one that passengers never consider.

When we build a new cruise ship, we only install enough crew beds to accommodate what is needed TODAY. We know that there will be a need for more crew beds in the future - perhaps the very near future, as we add more concepts and ideas. But in order to keep overall costs down, we never build space for extra crew beds.

So when a new regulation, or a new restaurant, or a new virtual pool idea requiring more crew comes along (and it always does), the biggest argument against it is “no available beds for required crew”.

So how do we get around this problem?

Easy. Replace non-essential crew with crew required for the new concept.

That is when you start noticing that the cabin stewards now have more cabins to service and restaurant service is slower because the fewer waiters must take care of more tables.

Even a brilliant concept that requires more crew onboard will not happen if the cost vs. profit calculation cannot overcome the inevitable guest satisfaction drop that happens when service crew are replaced.

 

Innovations negatively impact guest satisfaction.  That is a really bleak picture.   🙁

[Heidi13]

On 12/10/2023 at 10:28 AM, JohnBergless said:

OK- here’s my big idea. Work with me here… maybe not even on a ship; Vegas? All Inclusive? Disney? 

Virtual snorkeling. ThinkThe Vegas Sphere… then think Imax/MetaQuest VR meets snorkeling in a 3ft deep warm pool.

 

Imagine you’re in this heated/temperate pool… you put your face in the water… and the ENTIRE pool bottom and sides are transformed into some

kind of giant 3D video/led/projection screen.

Imagine snorkeling the USS Arizona in Pearl Harbor, or snorkeling with whales, sharks; or over the Titanic wreck…… all while floating in 3 feet of water. It could be licensed to Universal…. now picture snorkeling over the famous Ben Gardner’s Boat from JAWS…. Or snorkeling with your kids with Nemo, or with Winter the Clearwater Dolphin.  Or the underwater world from Jar Jar Binks in Star Wars. Or snorkeling with Octopus or Crabs….. almost anything that’s under water.

 

The technology would have to be perfected… but remember where you heard it first!!!!

VIRTUAL SNORKELING….. coming to a Mega Ship in 2028 LOLOL

Dont tell me I’m nuts - because I already know that.

 

To introduce in the cruise industry, due to the need for a pool, you are limited to new tonnage. Even a small 10' x 10' pool only 3' deep will contain 9 - 10 tons of water. Unless you can find space low down, it is a lot of weight to add, and will most likely have a negative impact an existing ship's stability. As Bruce also noted, they have limited space for additional crew members.

 

You are most likely looking at new classes of ships, as the redesign of future sister ships, of existing tonnage, could also entail expensive redesigns.

[sanger727]

On 12/11/2023 at 7:11 PM, Heidi13 said:

 

To introduce in the cruise industry, due to the need for a pool, you are limited to new tonnage. Even a small 10' x 10' pool only 3' deep will contain 9 - 10 tons of water. Unless you can find space low down, it is a lot of weight to add, and will most likely have a negative impact an existing ship's stability. As Bruce also noted, they have limited space for additional crew members.

 

You are most likely looking at new classes of ships, as the redesign of future sister ships, of existing tonnage, could also entail expensive redesigns.

 

The hardware used is a virtual headset. The most profitable way to add this would be to assign a pre-existing pool on the ship as virtual snorkeling during certain hours. Many ships have two pools and could use the secondary pool during certain hours will little inconvenience to guests.

[ldubs]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:11 PM, Heidi13 said:

 

To introduce in the cruise industry, due to the need for a pool, you are limited to new tonnage. Even a small 10' x 10' pool only 3' deep will contain 9 - 10 tons of water. Unless you can find space low down, it is a lot of weight to add, and will most likely have a negative impact an existing ship's stability. As Bruce also noted, they have limited space for additional crew members.

 

You are most likely looking at new classes of ships, as the redesign of future sister ships, of existing tonnage, could also entail expensive redesigns.

 

Virtual headset in the shower.  No new pools needed!  😀😀😀

[navybankerteacher]

On 12/11/2023 at 12:12 AM, ldubs said:

 

Innovations negatively impact guest satisfaction.  That is a really bleak picture.   🙁

But, sadly a logical notion.  Most changes are aimed at improving profitability for the operator.

[ldubs]

Just now, navybankerteacher said:

But, sadly a logical notion.  Most changes are aimed at improving profitability for the operator.

 

Of course changes have to be financially justified.   I understood the poster's comment about staffing issues causing problems.  The comment simply made me think it would be depressing if innovation was thought to be a negative.   For successful companies, innovation and profitability go hand-in-hand.  

[leaveitallbehind]

51 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

For successful companies, innovation and profitability go hand-in-hand.  

Innovation is typically a competitive advantage.  Lack of same is stagnation.

[navybankerteacher]

12 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

Innovation is typically a competitive advantage.  Lack of same is stagnation.

Still, there is some truth in the adage: “Don’t fix it if it isn’t broken”.

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, navybankerteacher said:

Still, there is some truth in the adage: “Don’t fix it if it isn’t broken”.

 

That is a truth.  That does not preclude enhancements.   I think an existing business model that works allows for innovations.  .   

[sanger727]

I don't think staffing would be a concern. Newer cruise ships have included water slides, wave runners, rock walls, ice skating, 3d theaters. Every entertainment venue requires staff. A new entertainment feature that they can 1. charge for and 2. requires no infrastructure would be equally or more feasible than any other entertainment feature being considered.  

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, sanger727 said:

I don't think staffing would be a concern. Newer cruise ships have included water slides, wave runners, rock walls, ice skating, 3d theaters. Every entertainment venue requires staff. A new entertainment feature that they can 1. charge for and 2. requires no infrastructure would be equally or more feasible than any other entertainment feature being considered.  

 

The potential crewing issue was raised by  @BruceMuzz who has many years of experience working in senior positions within the hotel department.

 

Do you have more experience managing cruise ships and also know the Flag/Class regulatory requirements, and cabin availability?????

[SelectSys]

6 hours ago, ldubs said:

That is a truth.  That does not preclude enhancements.   I think an existing business model that works allows for innovations.  .

Innovators and disrupters sometimes make existing competitors go away all together as well as creating entirely new business models.

[sanger727]

13 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

The potential crewing issue was raised by  @BruceMuzz who has many years of experience working in senior positions within the hotel department.

 

Do you have more experience managing cruise ships and also know the Flag/Class regulatory requirements, and cabin availability?????

 

The poster is being overly dramatic. Close down the rock wall for a few hours and put that employee on virtual snorkeling. It's not that difficult to work out. 

 

You can take any new idea and put up a thousand valid road blocks. Or you can look for a solution and find that it's not that hard a problem to solve. This idea in particular. 

 

1. Can't do it because you would need a custom pool with led screens

2. Can't do it because you would need to build a new pool

3. Can't do it because you need new employees with specific training.

 

OR

1. Can purchase a small number of virutal head sets, use a pre-existing pool, and cross train pre-existing employees.

Edited December 15, 2023 by sanger727

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 

The poster is being overly dramatic. Close down the rock wall for a few hours and put that employee on virtual snorkeling. It's not that difficult to work out. 

 

You can take any new idea and put up a thousand valid road blocks. Or you can look for a solution and find that it's not that hard a problem to solve. This idea in particular. 

 

1. Can't do it because you would need a custom pool with led screens

2. Can't do it because you would need to build a new pool

3. Can't do it because you need new employees with specific training.

 

OR

1. Can purchase a small number of virutal head sets, use a pre-existing pool, and cross train pre-existing employees.

 

Since mega ship owners are all about maximising onboard revenue, if it was that easy, why aren't any of the cruise lines already doing it?????

 

You do also know that the VR equipment must be Flag/Class approved before it can be used onboard a ship. The approval process is expensive, especially as many of the Class Societies require their own approval. When it is a limited market, most companies will not pay the cost of the approval process.

 

I know this from experience, since I have approached potential vendors to get Flag/Class approval for their product, so I could purchase it for the fleet. Even with 35 ships, the approval costs were not acceptable. Those of us that have worked in the industry fully understand all the multiple challenges with regulations, approvals, crewing, etc.

 

I can assure you, nothing in the marine industry is as simple as you clearly believe.

[ldubs]

21 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Since mega ship owners are all about maximising onboard revenue, if it was that easy, why aren't any of the cruise lines already doing it?????

 

You do also know that the VR equipment must be Flag/Class approved before it can be used onboard a ship. The approval process is expensive, especially as many of the Class Societies require their own approval. When it is a limited market, most companies will not pay the cost of the approval process.

 

I know this from experience, since I have approached potential vendors to get Flag/Class approval for their product, so I could purchase it for the fleet. Even with 35 ships, the approval costs were not acceptable. Those of us that have worked in the industry fully understand all the multiple challenges with regulations, approvals, crewing, etc.

 

I can assure you, nothing in the marine industry is as simple as you clearly believe.

 

Curious.  What is meant by Flag/Class approval?  

[Heidi13]

Just now, ldubs said:

 

Curious.  What is meant by Flag/Class approval?  

 

Basically everything used on board must be type approved by the Flag State and/or Classification Society. The UL standards does not meet the marine standard and in my experience, many of the Classification Societies did not accept the EU wheelmark, which is a European marine approval.

 

My ships were all delegated to Class, so all inspections were completed by Class Surveyors. I dealt with both Lloyds and ABS. When checking approvals, they would grudgingly accept a Flag State approval, but if no Flag State Approval, then they wanted the product to be tested in accordance with their Class requirements, paying the requisite fees. If it passed, it received a Class approved designation, and I could use it on any ships classed by that society.

 

Every equipment, furnishing, fabric, panel, etc has performance standards. When testing carpet, a sample is placed in a burn chamber and set on fire. We observe the process and time how long it takes to actually catch fire. If it passes, it received a certificate of approval and provided the manufacturer continues making to those specs, it retains approval. Approvals are usually issued for 5 yrs and are mostly renewed upon application.

 

Separate testing standards are developed for everything requiring approval. The approval costs are not inexpensive, being thousands of dollars and must be completed by the manufacturer.

[sanger727]

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Since mega ship owners are all about maximising onboard revenue, if it was that easy, why aren't any of the cruise lines already doing it?????

 

You do also know that the VR equipment must be Flag/Class approved before it can be used onboard a ship. The approval process is expensive, especially as many of the Class Societies require their own approval. When it is a limited market, most companies will not pay the cost of the approval process.

 

I know this from experience, since I have approached potential vendors to get Flag/Class approval for their product, so I could purchase it for the fleet. Even with 35 ships, the approval costs were not acceptable. Those of us that have worked in the industry fully understand all the multiple challenges with regulations, approvals, crewing, etc.

 

I can assure you, nothing in the marine industry is as simple as you clearly believe.

 

Way to totally miss the point. I'm certainly not suggesting that this item is profitable or viable. I don't see the appeal myself. Just reacting to the general negativity on this forum. This VR headset can't be more difficult to implement than a 3D theater. Yet, at some point they though that was financially viable. 

[Heidi13]

12 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

Way to totally miss the point. I'm certainly not suggesting that this item is profitable or viable. I don't see the appeal myself. Just reacting to the general negativity on this forum. This VR headset can't be more difficult to implement than a 3D theater. Yet, at some point they though that was financially viable. 

 

Don't believe I am missing any points, as being a retired professional mariner, I start with regulatory approvals with any new initiative. With Flag/Class approvals, being step 1, it most likely won't get to step 2.

[Hlitner]

On 12/10/2023 at 7:28 PM, JohnBergless said:

OK- here’s my big idea. Work with me here… maybe not even on a ship; Vegas? All Inclusive? Disney? 

Virtual snorkeling. ThinkThe Vegas Sphere… then think Imax/MetaQuest VR meets snorkeling in a 3ft deep warm pool.

 

Imagine you’re in this heated/temperate pool… you put your face in the water… and the ENTIRE pool bottom and sides are transformed into some

kind of giant 3D video/led/projection screen.

Imagine snorkeling the USS Arizona in Pearl Harbor, or snorkeling with whales, sharks; or over the Titanic wreck…… all while floating in 3 feet of water. It could be licensed to Universal…. now picture snorkeling over the famous Ben Gardner’s Boat from JAWS…. Or snorkeling with your kids with Nemo, or with Winter the Clearwater Dolphin.  Or the underwater world from Jar Jar Binks in Star Wars. Or snorkeling with Octopus or Crabs….. almost anything that’s under water.

 

The technology would have to be perfected… but remember where you heard it first!!!!

VIRTUAL SNORKELING….. coming to a Mega Ship in 2028 LOLOL

Dont tell me I’m nuts - because I already know that.

I thing VR will soon begin to make itself to many cruise ships.  No reason to just limit it to snorkeling.  The technology is already here and is gradually working its way into many land-based arcades and gaming centers.

 

Hank

[thinfool]

On 12/9/2023 at 6:06 PM, leaveitallbehind said:

The cruise lines have staff at the corporate level whose responsibility lies with new design and innovation.  My suggestion would be to check the different cruise line websites for their corporate leadership and start there with a phone call to that HQ to see to whom you should contact.

Princess built the latest ships, regal, royal, discovery, sky, etc without an outdoor promenade.  BIG mistake by the folks that you refer to.  Little to no market survey, huge quantity of complaints.  Interestingly the next generation of Princess ships, beginning with the new Sun Princess, have complete outdoor promenades.

[leaveitallbehind]

3 hours ago, thinfool said:

Princess built the latest ships, regal, royal, discovery, sky, etc without an outdoor promenade.  BIG mistake by the folks that you refer to.  Little to no market survey, huge quantity of complaints.  Interestingly the next generation of Princess ships, beginning with the new Sun Princess, have complete outdoor promenades.

And for some unexplained reason when RCCL built Harmony of the Seas, at the time the third of the Oasis class ships, they eliminated the pool in the solarium.  Big mistake, as this is the only adult retreat area on the ship. Go figure. This was the only ship in that class to do so. The first two and every one since includes it. I guess at times even the pros get it wrong.

Edited December 22, 2023 by leaveitallbehind

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, thinfool said:

Princess built the latest ships, regal, royal, discovery, sky, etc without an outdoor promenade.  BIG mistake by the folks that you refer to.  Little to no market survey, huge quantity of complaints.  Interestingly the next generation of Princess ships, beginning with the new Sun Princess, have complete outdoor promenades.

 

Interesting.  Do you mean a promenade that goes all the way around or none at all?  There is an outside deck on deck 7 (the promenade deck). Not sure how big or far it goes.  Can passengers still walk along the promenade where the lifeboats are? 

Edited December 22, 2023 by ldubs

[thinfool]

10 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Interesting.  Do you mean a promenade that goes all the way around or none at all?  There is an outside deck on deck 7 (the promenade deck). Not sure how big or far it goes.  Can passengers still walk along the promenade where the lifeboats are? 

The tiny platform on Deck 7 ....is their offering as a Promenade.  You can see the entire platform from above.  The old and very popular promenade went all the way around the ship.  In Alaska, on a Grand class ship, I spent many, many hours whale watching on the Promenade deck at the very front of the ship.

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, thinfool said:

The tiny platform on Deck 7 ....is their offering as a Promenade.  You can see the entire platform from above.  The old and very popular promenade went all the way around the ship.  In Alaska, on a Grand class ship, I spent many, many hours whale watching on the Promenade deck at the very front of the ship.

 

Thanks.  I've been on many where the promenade walk doesn't go all the way around.  But they do run much of the length of the ship.   I think the only Royal Class ship we have experienced is Enchanted.   I didn't notice this issue -- probably wasn't paying attention.    

[leaveitallbehind]

20 minutes ago, ldubs said:

I've been on many where the promenade walk doesn't go all the way around.  But they do run much of the length of the ship.   I think the only Royal Class ship we have experienced is Enchanted.    

Referring to RCCL that would be the case with the Vision class ships, of which Enchantment of the Seas is one.  

 

Several of the their other class ships (Radiance, Voyager, Freedom), however, have full circumference promenades that also allow access to the helipad on the forward deck.

 

Oasis class ships also have full circumference promenades but do not provide access to the forward helipad.

Edited December 22, 2023 by leaveitallbehind