Internet on the Dawn

[ak1004]

We boarded the Dawn on Dec.11, and I was pleased to find out that they upgraded to StarLink. However, when I measured the speed, I was getting a pathetic 1.5M, and it does feel slow. I expected much more from StarLink.

 

Turns out that what you get is what they call basic internet, but you can upgrade and experience the full advantage of the StarLink for $29 a day.

 

Feels a bit strange that an ultra luxury cruise line dimes and nickels like this.

[Lois R]

42 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

We boarded the Dawn on Dec.11, and I was pleased to find out that they upgraded to StarLink. However, when I measured the speed, I was getting a pathetic 1.5M, and it does feel slow. I expected much more from StarLink.

 

Turns out that what you get is what they call basic internet, but you can upgrade and experience the full advantage of the StarLink for $29 a day.

 

Feels a bit strange that an ultra luxury cruise line dimes and nickels like this.

Hi, I guess it depends on how important the internet is to you. I have never felt the need to pay extra for it but I get your point. 

[ak1004]

4 minutes ago, Lois R said:

Hi, I guess it depends on how important the internet is to you. I have never felt the need to pay extra for it but I get your point. 

it used to be more important a few years ago, less important now. Still I like to stay in touch with the family, and also browse the news etc. so no, we won’t be upgrading, but SS prices are fairly high, so I would expect them to provide good internet, especially now when they have the infrastructure.

[canderson]

FWIW, on the 'premium' plan (came with the suite) I was getting a consistent DL speed of right around 10Mbps right across the Atlantic on our TA, and with worst case of only about 65ms latency -- which is fantastic, when you consider the number of inter-satellite hand-offs required to reach a Starlink ground station from the middle of the Atlantic.

[ak1004]

47 minutes ago, canderson said:

FWIW, on the 'premium' plan (came with the suite) I was getting a consistent DL speed of right around 10Mbps right across the Atlantic on our TA, and with worst case of only about 65ms latency -- which is fantastic, when you consider the number of inter-satellite hand-offs required to reach a Starlink ground station from the middle of the Atlantic.

I agree, and this is how this should be with StarLink. But why it’s included only with certain level of suite? It should be standard.

[canderson]

3 hours ago, ak1004 said:

I agree, and this is how this should be with StarLink. But why it’s included only with certain level of suite? It should be standard.

Along with free laundry and dry cleaning?

 

[ak1004]

8 hours ago, canderson said:

Along with free laundry and dry cleaning?

 

No, free laundry is different. They don’t advertise that free laundry is included in the cruise price, but they do advertise that Dawn switched to StarLink and the internet is included. But if if you have to pay to get the StarLink quality internet, then it’s not included.

[canderson]

34 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

No, free laundry is different. They don’t advertise that free laundry is included in the cruise price, but they do advertise that Dawn switched to StarLink and the internet is included. But if if you have to pay to get the StarLink quality internet, then it’s not included.

Silversea's 'Standard' service is more than adequate for all but streaming services.

 

The service provided at the 'Standard' tier service level is still much better than what we had pre-Starlink.  The drop-out issues, slower speed, and latency issues are apparently quickly forgotten. 

 

They're clear about the two tier system:

https://www.silversea.com/travel-informations/wifi-packages.html

 

Bandwidth availability shipboard is likely a large factor.  By not automatically providing 10Mb/sec access to all guests, the anticipated resistance to purchasing the extra bandwidth limits demand on the system.  Land based, and with a special antenna system, Starlink offers 'Starlink Premium' with up to 500 Mbps service.  That's enough to support a 10Mbps stream to 50 concurrent passengers.  However, I don't know if there is a special Starlink Maritime package for cruise ships that provides service at that level.  The standard maritime package is only "up to" 220Mbps.

 

It would be interesting to know what bandwidth the ships are actually seeing.

[ak1004]

I’m getting speeds of 1.5M now. Which is better than we had on the Spirit last year, but still pathetic for an ultra luxury line in 2023. They should not advertise that they have StarLink if they artificially reduce the speeds for 90% of the guests. I was getting 5-6M on Princess 5 years ago.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Think of it as top-shelf liquor.  Most luxury cruise lines still charge extra if you're not happy with the included brands at the bar.  

[Port Power]

8 hours ago, ak1004 said:

I’m getting speeds of 1.5M now. Which is better than we had on the Spirit last year, but still pathetic for an ultra luxury line in 2023. They should not advertise that they have StarLink if they artificially reduce the speeds for 90% of the guests. I was getting 5-6M on Princess 5 years ago.

Sorry, but I cannot agree with you.  StarLink IS available, and it IS included.  Basic is good enough to stay connected with emails, social media, messages and sending photos.  As @Host Jazzbeau says above, if you want more, whether faster internet, cognac or Dom Perignon champagne, they are available at additional cost .

[ak1004]

1.5M is not a speed that people would expect from StarLink. Sorry, but it’s pathetic. My Air Canada app is hardly loading, I’m not sure I will be able even to do check in. 
 

Included alcohol is usually very good and good enough for most people. The basic internet is not. Even at the reception they admitted that it’s very slow.

 

 

[drron29]

Well basic Starlink internet was good enough to upload a 100+ photos in a day for my cruise reports on the Moon and Muse.

Sea days were slower as obviously more people using the internet.

So quite sufficient speed for me and most people.

I wonder what you couldn’t do with the speed you measured?

[ak1004]

11 minutes ago, drron29 said:

Well basic Starlink internet was good enough to upload a 100+ photos in a day for my cruise reports on the Moon and Muse.

Sea days were slower as obviously more people using the internet.

So quite sufficient speed for me and most people.

I wonder what you couldn’t do with the speed you measured?

It’s not a matter of what I couldn’t do. It’s a matter of speed. Even with 0.5M speed you can do most things, it’s just much slower. I would call it adequate, but from an ultra luxury line like SS I expect better than adequate.

 

I also expect from a line that is marketing itself as all inclusive not to charge extra for things like premium internet or 2 out of 8 restaurants. And $29 a day is pretty expensive. Oceania also has premium internet but it charges $10 a day to upgrade. And Oceania is not ultra luxury all inclusive line. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by ak1004

[Host Jazzbeau]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

It’s not a matter of what I couldn’t do. It’s a matter of speed. Even with 0.5M speed you can do most things, it’s just much slower. I would call it adequate, but from an ultra luxury line like SS I expect better than adequate.

Wait.  So if it isn't a matter of what you can do, what is it?  Entitlement?  I don't get it.

[canderson]

1 hour ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Wait.  So if it isn't a matter of what you can do, what is it?  Entitlement?  I don't get it.

I think I get what he was saying in that sentence.  It's not that he can't do things, it just takes longer than he'd like to do them.

[ak1004]

6 hours ago, canderson said:

I think I get what he was saying in that sentence.  It's not that he can't do things, it just takes longer than he'd like to do them.

Exactly. Even with 0.5M you can still do most things. It just would take forever.

 

We can continue going in circles, but we can all agree about the facts. Less than 10% of the guests get the real speed of StarLink. 90%+ get the reduced speed of 1.5M unless they pay $29 a day  Some people think it’s ok. I think it’s unacceptable and misleading. But at least the prospective guests know what to expect.

 

It’s pretty much the same as with La Dame. We all agree that 90% of the guests have to pay for it. Some people think it’s ok. Some believe it’s unacceptable for an all inclusive line. On the Spirit they had an excuse of a very small venue that needs capacity control. What’s the excuse on the Dawn?

[jollyjones]

11 hours ago, ak1004 said:

. And $29 a day is pretty expensive. Oceania also has premium internet but it charges $10 a day to upgrade. And Oceania is not ultra luxury all inclusive line. 

 

I would like to point out that the SS upgrade to premium is $29 per day ONLY if you purchase it by the 24hr period.

If you purchase it for whole voyage it's a tad over $20 per day.

 

I always purchase the upgrade but I freely admit I'm an impatient person and prefer to have 10M.

My choice.

Plenty of pax cope quite happily with the basic.

 

 

[canderson]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

I think it’s unacceptable and misleading. But at least the prospective guests know what to expect.

...

On the Spirit they had an excuse of a very small venue that needs capacity control. What’s the excuse on the Dawn?

That first paragraph has me scratching my head.  SS is clear in their online description of their tiered service, so I don't see how it is "misleading".  Starlink provided me with better service than the previous at-sea providers apart from the bandwidth.  All customers get those benefits.

 

I covered the question of capacity control in an earlier post.  Dawn isn't an exception.  If you install the same Starlink Maritime system on a rowboat or a cruise ship, you have the same total bandwidth available.  Any explanation that a smaller ship like Spirit, with less passengers, will have a bigger issue of demand control makes no sense unless they've installed a lesser system of some sort.  To the contrary, bandwidth per pax should be less of an issue!

 

Ah...

Perhaps what's missing from the discussion is that a given Starlink Maratime ("Mobile Priority") package isn't all you can eat at a fixed monthly rate.  The price per month is also based upon usage.  You buy a monthly plan from a tiered list, each with a maximum data cap.  More $ for.more data.  If you exceed your cap, either your speed is cut back to the much slower "Mobile Land" bandwidth or you pay an additional $2/Gb for the overage.  So there's another reason for trying to control pax usage through a tiered pricing structure.

[ak1004]

45 minutes ago, canderson said:

That first paragraph has me scratching my head.  SS is clear in their online description of their tiered service, so I don't see how it is "misleading".  Starlink provided me with better service than the previous at-sea providers apart from the bandwidth.  All customers get those benefits.

 

I covered the question of capacity control in an earlier post.  Dawn isn't an exception.  If you install the same Starlink Maritime system on a rowboat or a cruise ship, you have the same total bandwidth available.  Any explanation that a smaller ship like Spirit, with less passengers, will have a bigger issue of demand control makes no sense unless they've installed a lesser system of some sort.  To the contrary, bandwidth per pax should be less of an issue!

 

Ah...

Perhaps what's missing from the discussion is that a given Starlink Maratime ("Mobile Priority") package isn't all you can eat at a fixed monthly rate.  The price per month is also based upon usage.  You buy a monthly plan from a tiered list, each with a maximum data cap.  More $ for.more data.  If you exceed your cap, either your speed is cut back to the much slower "Mobile Land" bandwidth or you pay an additional $2/Gb for the overage.  So there's another reason for trying to control pax usage through a tiered pricing structure.

My comment of capacity control referred to La Dame, not the internet. La Dame on the Spirit is much smaller, so charging a fee to control demand did make some sense. But La Dame on the Dawn is about 3 times larger, so the capacity control excuse doesn’t hold anymore.

 

While this is not related to the internet discussion, it’s just another example how SS will use every excuse to extract more money from guests while marketing itself as all inclusive line.

 

As for tied internet service - it’s fine as long as the basic service is satisfactory. Then you can say that the basic is good and the premium is excellent. The problem is that this is not the case. If I was getting 5M in Princess (mass market line) in 2018, I consider 1.5M adequate at best for 2023 on an ultra luxury line. From a line like SS, I expect better than just adequate.

 

Fortunately having good internet is now less critical to me than it was a few years ago when I was much more involved in my business. 

[twangster]

The trend with the other lines in the RCG family has always been to install a number of Starlink systems on each ship.  The biggest ships in the other brands (Royal Caribbean) have 16 Starlink systems to accommodate >6k passengers. 

 

They distribute them to different areas of the ship so that there is less chance of something blocking all of them.  Oasis class have 12 above the suite lounge plus 4 forward above the suite sun deck.

 

 

Silver Origin had two Starlink systems if I recall correctly, at least two I could see aft near the hot tub above the canopy.  They are small so it's possible Origin had more in a forward location out of sight.   

 

The total bandwidth available on each ship is an aggregate of the number of Starlink systems.  Traffic is load balanced across the number of Starlink systems on board.   

 

As a point of reference Royal Caribbean caps the internet speed to ~9Mbps per user on the mega ships (5k to 6k guests).  On their smaller ships (smaller by Royal Caribbean standards) they do not police individual user speeds.  A few weeks ago on Radiance of the Seas, a ship with just over 2k guests I was getting ~90-100M Mbps down and ~30-45Mbps up.  Radiance class have 8 Starlink systems on each ship, split between two locations.

 

 

 

Origin had the same ~1.5Mbps "standard" DL speed referenced above.  The premium upgrade lifted that to ~10Mbps.  That upgrade also came with four simultaneous devices.  

 

I'm boarding Wind tomorrow but I'm not expecting great Starlink service close that far South.  We'll see.

 

Since this has been something I've tracked on Royal Caribbean, Celebrity and Silversea I'll be looking for the antennas on board Wind.  

 

Given that Radiance class on Royal Caribbean don't police Starlink speeds with ~2k passengers on board, it stands to reason Silversea doesn't need to police speeds with many fewer guests on board.  However I don't know how many Starlink systems Silversea has been installing on each ship. 

[ak1004]

25 minutes ago, twangster said:

The trend with the other lines in the RCG family has always been to install a number of Starlink systems on each ship.  The biggest ships in the other brands (Royal Caribbean) have 16 Starlink systems to accommodate >6k passengers. 

 

They distribute them to different areas of the ship so that there is less chance of something blocking all of them.  Oasis class have 12 above the suite lounge plus 4 forward above the suite sun deck.

 

 

Silver Origin had two Starlink systems if I recall correctly, at least two I could see aft near the hot tub above the canopy.  They are small so it's possible Origin had more in a forward location out of sight.   

 

The total bandwidth available on each ship is an aggregate of the number of Starlink systems.  Traffic is load balanced across the number of Starlink systems on board.   

 

As a point of reference Royal Caribbean caps the internet speed to ~9Mbps per user on the mega ships (5k to 6k guests).  On their smaller ships (smaller by Royal Caribbean standards) they do not police individual user speeds.  A few weeks ago on Radiance of the Seas, a ship with just over 2k guests I was getting ~90-100M Mbps down and ~30-45Mbps up.  Radiance class have 8 Starlink systems on each ship, split between two locations.

 

 

 

Origin had the same ~1.5Mbps "standard" DL speed referenced above.  The premium upgrade lifted that to ~10Mbps.  That upgrade also came with four simultaneous devices.  

 

I'm boarding Wind tomorrow but I'm not expecting great Starlink service close that far South.  We'll see.

 

Since this has been something I've tracked on Royal Caribbean, Celebrity and Silversea I'll be looking for the antennas on board Wind.  

 

Given that Radiance class on Royal Caribbean don't police Starlink speeds with ~2k passengers on board, it stands to reason Silversea doesn't need to police speeds with many fewer guests on board.  However I don't know how many Starlink systems Silversea has been installing on each ship. 

thanks, very helpful.

 

I definitely wouldn’t expect 90-100M. But I believe that at least 5M is a minimum for an ultra luxury line in 2023.

[SNJGuy]

10 hours ago, ak1004 said:

I definitely wouldn’t expect 90-100M. But I believe that at least 5M is a minimum for an ultra luxury line in 2023.

 

I'm getting on Dawn on Thursday and am kinda shocked to find out I will have to pay additional money if I want to stream anything. I figured if you're paying around 20k for a cruise, it should be included.

[Port Power]

11 hours ago, twangster said:

 

 

 

I'm boarding Wind tomorrow but I'm not expecting great Starlink service close that far South.  We'll see.

 

Since this has been something I've tracked on Royal Caribbean, Celebrity and Silversea I'll be looking for the antennas on board Wind.  

 

Given that Radiance class on Royal Caribbean don't police Starlink speeds with ~2k passengers on board, it stands to reason Silversea doesn't need to police speeds with many fewer guests on board.  However I don't know how many Starlink systems Silversea has been installing on each ship. 

If you are boarding Silver Wind, you must be in Santiago with the rest of us, about to leave for the airport.  It seems there are not many CC contributors onboard.  Hopefully we will meet up.  Carol

[twangster]

1 minute ago, Port Power said:

If you are boarding Silver Wind, you must be in Santiago with the rest of us, about to leave for the airport.  It seems there are not many CC contributors onboard.  Hopefully we will meet up.  Carol

 

I'm on the last bus and flight 🙂.   Killing time in my hotel room.

 

I've started a Live thread, you are welcome to contribute.