Will NEVER use HAL again!!

[RevNeal]

Thank you Heather.

Your last line, in particular, hit the nail on the head. As I've said before, I come here to have fun sharing the joy of cruising with others and to get ready for the next time I board a lovely ship. I don't come here to fight. I don't come here to "win" an argument (as if such were ever really possible). I don't come here to be told that I don't know what I'm talking about. I come here to help sustain my spirits BETWEEN cruises, and to share my love and other people's love of cruising. I think I'll try harder to stick to that.

[serendipity1499]

I've followed this thread for several days and i can only respond by asking "What hasn't changed since the early 80's when we started cruising?"

We loved NCL and RCI then but they are not for us now. We were much less well-off, younger, inexperienced. We chose postage stamp sized cabins with a porthole as that was all we could afford. We loved them, laughed about crawling across the bed to get anywhere in the cabin, fought to get to the bathroom first as 2 of us couldn't fit in there together, but still enjoyed every minute of our adventures.

 

This is a new century, much has evolved, we're older, more mature, and not pollyannas anymore.

Yes there are differences and deficiencies but we don't care. We only enjoy our memories and make new memories.

 

Kahlil Gibran said it best. "if it comforts them to regret, then let them be comforted."

Life is too short to clutter with "what-ifs" and "it was better then"

Enjoy the now, different is different.

We are blessed being able to cruise at all. My son is at a Mother Theresa mission in Calcutta. You should read his emails.

Thank the Lord for what you have and are able to do.

I don't suggest that people should not express their opinions but don't let the negative ones overtake you, it can be so self-destructive.

I'm not a preacher, and i love you all but if we want to be carried away, let it be with joy.

GN

 

Thank you GN..And we love you too! Please everyone sit back and enjoy the beautiful day..Go out in the Garden, smell the flowers & listen to the birds..We all sometimes get caried away, but thank God that we all are alive, are somewhat healthy, can freely express our feelings & still enjoy our favorite pastime..Cruising! :) Peace Everyone! Betty

[L&B Cruisers]

:) I've never claimed to be suave, debonair etc. I'd probably make Jethro Bodine (of the Beverly Hillbillies?) look sophisticated ! Having confessed that... I have cruised a time or two (maybe 50 total cruises? 9 or 10 on HAL & the same on Carnival among others). IMHO there are things on both lines to be admired and also that could be improved..Blaming HAL changes on Carnival ownership is unfair. Even if Carnival did not own HAL, the line would be different now, like the world is also different now. Even so, I look forward to many more romantic, exciting voyages on a cruise ship headed to sea, no matter the line, with my lovely bride. Thank God for the memories past & those to come! ;)

[duckman715]

What an interesting conversation we have here. I first sailed in 1968 on the Raffaello. What a trip. I was 19 and the world of cruising was an absolute wonder. Next trip was a two week trip in 1972 on a converted tanker named the Angelina Laura (I think). A real tug but it only cost $800 for a small cabin with a tiny porthole. Still a wonder filled adventure. Next cruise was not until 2002 and oh my had things changed. A different environment altogether. Eight cruises since then. Some terrific. Some merely very good.

In reflecting on the thoughts expressed in this thread, I look back on that $800 cabin with the porthole in 1972. I have to note that my last two week cruise was last year and cost $2500 for an extended aft balcony. Applying a simple cost of living factor, that 1972 cruise with the tiny porthole would cost approximately $6,000 today.

For my taste, I would choose the extended balcony cabin for $2500 over the porthole for $6,000 and take all the changes which have occured in cruising since 1972.

I suppose "gracious living" asea has always been, and will always be, available to those with the means to afford it. That is what keeps lines like Silversea afloat. My standards as to what is acceptable are, to a certain degree, dictated by what my wallet dictates is an acceptable price/value ratio. When I win the lottery & can venture into the rarified air of luxury cruising again, I will adjust accordingly. Until then I intend to seek the best value for my money & to enjoy the life out of it to the greatest degree possible.

Bill

[kingclick]

That's why it was so inexpensive!

 

I was thinking, my dh would have been thrilled if we had only spent $4,800.00 on our cruise!!!

 

On the subject, I would never put a box of alcohol outside my room.

 

Heh. You don't know the half of it. Almost all of the people on the cruise had earned $$ toward their rooms through the performance of their business!

[JLC@SD]

Where does common sense come onto play here? I don't need anyone to tell me not to put liquor outside in the hall.

Not only would I not put my liquor outside for the crew to carry ashore...........but if I did do it..........I wouldn't post to everyone that I was dumb enough to do it...........:)

[Navy_Chief]

No matter shipmate, the OP who started this running thread hasn't shown back up in 8 pages anyway. :D

[Candy]

Not only would I not put my liquor outside for the crew to carry ashore...........but if I did do it..........I wouldn't post to everyone that I was dumb enough to do it...........:)

 

When you get your liquor back the last night, isn't your name and cabin number scribbled on the box in BIG BLACK MAGIC MARKER LETTERS?

 

Candy the ZuiderPrincess

[Orlandocruiser]

I think the last time we bought liquor in St Thomas from A H Riise (dec 2005) there was only a computer printed sticker on the box with our ship name and room number (and contents). That was a change from other times when they did use the "magic marker method".

[Rotterdam]

What an interesting conversation we have here. I first sailed in 1968 on the Raffaello. What a trip. I was 19 and the world of cruising was an absolute wonder. Next trip was a two week trip in 1972 on a converted tanker named the Angelina Laura (I think). A real tug but it only cost $800 for a small cabin with a tiny porthole. Still a wonder filled adventure. Next cruise was not until 2002 and oh my had things changed. A different environment altogether. Eight cruises since then. Some terrific. Some merely very good.

In reflecting on the thoughts expressed in this thread, I look back on that $800 cabin with the porthole in 1972. I have to note that my last two week cruise was last year and cost $2500 for an extended aft balcony. Applying a simple cost of living factor, that 1972 cruise with the tiny porthole would cost approximately $6,000 today.

For my taste, I would choose the extended balcony cabin for $2500 over the porthole for $6,000 and take all the changes which have occured in cruising since 1972.

I suppose "gracious living" asea has always been, and will always be, available to those with the means to afford it. That is what keeps lines like Silversea afloat. My standards as to what is acceptable are, to a certain degree, dictated by what my wallet dictates is an acceptable price/value ratio. When I win the lottery & can venture into the rarified air of luxury cruising again, I will adjust accordingly. Until then I intend to seek the best value for my money & to enjoy the life out of it to the greatest degree possible.

Bill

 

I too sailed on the Angelina Lauro in 1975....it was an old Dutch Liner that was converted for cruises by Lauro Lines...we had the choice of sailing out of NYC on the Sea Venture for 10 days or the Angelina Lauro out of Ft Lauderdale...it was February / Presidents Day weekend. So we thought we would miss the rough ride down the East Coast ...WRONG - we rocked & rolled for 24 hours...I remember my first case of seasickness as the first morning the waiter placed oatmeal on the table & I was out the door leaning over the rail!!!!!

 

We had a "suite" on one of the upper decks which meant we were tossed around..I remember the telephone flying off the table & sitting on the floor to put on my pants for Captains Nite....ropes across the halls & dance floors & sick bags all over. I don't recall the cost but it was considered expensive at the time.

But the food & service by the Italain staff was fantastic & fun. The decor of the ship was old world - I remember tapestries hanging in the one lounge & the velvet chairs in dark warm colors in the one lounge - not very caribbean like - but beautiful. The dining room was funky.

 

The ship was 40+ years old in 1975 when I sailed on her - she was built to sail the world(I believe she was used as an immigrant ship) & I was happy that her unusual hull made our sailing better through that horrible storm.

 

Angelina Lauro caught fire in St. Thomas & sunk afterwards.

 

She wasn't the prettiest but the quality was exceptional!!!

[Rotterdam]

I've just read the last day or two's posts all at once and I have to tell you it's a pretty even match. Neither of you needed any help.

 

When I post like this, my posts go poof so fast you don't even get to mutter "whistle Dixie"!

 

Two things come to my mind ... one is I don't think change is necessarily for the better. And I don't think we have to grin and bear it and say change is inevitable and we have to put up with it.

 

The other is we're all just so darned lucky we can go out on the big blue ocean on any big boat.

 

It was better way back then. The service was better, the food was better, smaller ships were better. It was just better. Bigger isn't better, more people isn't better. That's my opinion. That's why we're cruising as much as we can before it's changed so much that we just don't want to do it anymore.

 

But none of it is worth having this vicious an argument about ... none of it.

 

Remember when having to choose between the "small" Doric or "larger" Oceanic????

 

I like to think of it this way - I'm closer to 50 than 40 & will be able to sail SAGA...where all the good old ships go!!!!!! Either way...heres a cha cha cha & cocktails for you when we meet - perhaps on the old Caronia!!!!!

[winher]

At the end of our Oosterdam Christmas cruise 2005, we were required to come down to the shops to sign for and pick up our duty free. It seemed strange at the time, as on all our previous HAL cruises the duty free was delivered to our stateroom on the final day. Following this thread, I now have a clue as to perhaps why they have instituted this policy. Your signature is proof that your duty free is now in your possession and your responsibility.

[winewanderer]

Unfortunately there are dishonest people everywhere.

 

It's just like not placing valuables in your luggage. I would have carried the liquor off the ship.

[RevNeal]

I would have carried the liquor off the ship.

 

:)

I generally prefer to keep my liquor safe by surrounding it with my body and carrying it off inside my blood. :)

[xpcdoojk]

I read the OP's post and then I saw with complete amazement that a single post could generate so many replies!

 

That is almost worth the price of admission and here I am adding to it. :D :p

 

jc

[PH8]

Hey JC...Long time,no see.....how ya been??:D

 

Love these "I'll never cruise with **fill in the blank** cruiseline again threads.

[kingclick]

Not only would I not put my liquor outside for the crew to carry ashore...........but if I did do it..........I wouldn't post to everyone that I was dumb enough to do it...........:)

 

For you it would be dumb. Because you would KNOW the rules and then ignore them.

 

However for the poster who did not know the rules and was a first time cruiser.....they wouldn't be dumb. They would be ignorant of the facts that things get taken from baggage all the time.

[cusyl]

LOL, sorry for your loss, but the cruise director always makes a point of mentioning NOT to put your booze out in the hall or someone will have a big party. This is not the cruiseline's fault. It was probably another passenger.

[dougnewmanatsea]

The ship was 40+ years old in 1975 when I sailed on her

Actually she was "just" 36 at the time ;) .

 

She was built in 1939 as the Nederland Line flagship ORANJE for their Amsterdam-Batavia (Jakarta) service. After she was retired in 1964, she was bought by Flotta Lauro and became ANGELINA LAURO. She was completely rebuilt from the hull up and entered service in 1966 as both a liner on the Britain-to-Australia emigrant trade as well as a cruise ship. She became a full-time cruise ship in 1972 and was marketed in the US by Costa until she burned at St. Thomas in 1979, just after her 40th birthday.

 

Interestingly, her competitor-turned-running-mate, Royal Rotterdam Lloyd's WILLEM RUYS of 1946, was also sold to Flotta Lauro in 1964 and she emerged as ACHILLE LAURO in 1966.

 

Of course while ANGELINA LAURO burned in 1979, ACHILLE LAURO lasted many years longer, becoming famous for the 1985 hijacking incident. She was by Mediterranean Shipping Company in 1987 and thus became the first ship of Starlauro Cruises, later Mediterranean Shipping Cruises and now MSC Cruises.

 

The lives of ORANJE/ANGELINA LAURO and WILLEM RUYS/ACHILLE LAURO paralleled each other in many ways. Their competing Dutch owners both sold them to Flotta Lauro at the same time. Both ships experienced fires in the Italian shipbyards where they were converted and both ships ended their lives by fires.

 

I am surprised that Bill calls her a "tug" and you say she "wasn't the prettiest" - she was gone before my time but personally I've always thought that as ANGELINA LAURO she was an exceptionally beautiful ship. Even though she was a conversion, she bore a striking resemblance inside and out to mid-1960s Italian newbuilds MICHELANGELO/RAFFAELLO, OCEANIC and EUGENIO C.

 

ACHILLE LAURO is easily the more famous of the two ships because of the tragic hijacking incident, I have always thought that ANGELINA LAURO was the prettier of the two, though they were both beautiful ships.

 

A few ORANJE/ANGELINA LAURO links:

ms Oranje from SS Maritime

The Death of Angelina Lauro by Cruise Critic member chesterh

[Old As Dirt Mom]

This thread has certainly meandered all over the place:) Your posts are always very interesting, Doug. I'm really excited to read about the Angelina Lauro, especially in her first incarnation as Oranje. During World War II, Oranje was converted to a hospital ship, and was stationed off the Australian coast, I think. She transported both the wounded and sick between Indonesia and the Netherlands. My mother and her family spent four years in a Japanese POW camp during the Japanese invasion of Indonesia. After four years of starvation and maltreatment, my grandmother succumbed to pneumonia, and was on the verge of death. She was one of the first patients ever to receive the new wonder drug of the time, penicillin. It saved her life. My grandmother was then transported on the Oranje back home to Holland, and my mother, being only 11 years old at the time, accompanied her.

[duckman715]

Fascinating history of the Angelina Lauro. Thank you so much Doug. I am very interested in the history of some of these older ships & what became of them. By coincidence my first cruise was on the Raffaello in 1968, which you compare favorably to the AL. As my memory serves the two were quite different in style and finishings. The Raffaello was a sleek state of the art liner having made its maiden voyage only a couple of years before my trip. The dear old AL was well into middle age by then and vibrated like one of those old quarter-for-a-massage beds you found in motels in the 60's. God Bless the AL, she was a delight to a 23 year old male out to see the world, but no sleek maiden of the seas. Oh well, this is far from the subject of this thread & I apologize for the digression. Thank you for allowing me to indulge in a bit of nostalgic whimsy.

Bill

[Copper10-8]

This thread has certainly meandered all over the place:) Your posts are always very interesting, Doug. I'm really excited to read about the Angelina Lauro, especially in her first incarnation as Oranje. During World War II, Oranje was converted to a hospital ship, and was stationed off the Australian coast, I think. She transported both the wounded and sick between Indonesia and the Netherlands. My mother and her family spent four years in a Japanese POW camp during the Japanese invasion of Indonesia. After four years of starvation and maltreatment, my grandmother succumbed to pneumonia, and was on the verge of death. She was one of the first patients ever to receive the new wonder drug of the time, penicillin. It saved her life. My grandmother was then transported on the Oranje back home to Holland, and my mother, being only 11 years old at the time, accompanied her.

 

Wow, very interesting, sad (WWII POW years) yet inspiring story about how some folks lives are touched/impacted by a ship. "Oranje", means "Orange" in Dutch as in the color and, more importantly for the people of the Netherlands, as in the Royal family's House of Orange. This is to the Dutch what the House of Windsor represents to their British counterparts. Orange is also the official color representing the Netherlands in international athletic competitions and that's why you'll find the Dutch team, i.e. in soccer, wearing orange jerseys. Even more visible are their supporters in the stands;) .

[duckman715]

ms Oranje from SS Maritime

Doug, you have no idea. This web site showing photos of the Angelina Lauro was a wonderful walk into the past. A rather personal one as there is a photograph of me in these pictures, as a young 23 year old, with hair even, shooting skeet on the aft deck. I have several pictures from that cruise and this surprise is going right into the scrapbook. Thanks

Bill

[dougnewmanatsea]

Thank you so much Doug.

Glad you enjoyed that.

 

If you (or anyone else) have any other "old ship" questions, please do ask here.

 

As my memory serves the two were quite different in style and finishings.

I don't doubt that the "feel" on board must have been very different - for one thing RAFFAELLO was of course a far larger ship - but in design terms there were a lot of things on ANGELINA LAURO borrowed from other then-new Italian designs.

 

Admittedly RAFFAELLO's decorative style was much more daring than ANGELINA LAURO's... RAFFAELLO was probably the most avantgarde of the '60s Italian liners (much more so than her sister MICHELANGELO) and ANGELINA LAURO one of the most conservative, so they occupy different ends of the spectrum of the same basic style.

 

Also, RAFFAELLO was of course built on a much larger budget. Nonetheless there are still a lot of similarities - the colors chosen, a lot of the ceiling finishes, the art (particularly the ceramics), some of the furniture, etc.

 

ANGELINA LAURO does appear to have possibly used real wood, and her designers were also apparently much more eager to use carpet which was very sparingly used in RAFFAELLO. (Mid-century Italian liners were famous for their very extensive use of linoleum.)

 

The resemblance is much more obvious externally. If you look at profile views of ANGELINA LAURO and compare with those of MICHELANGELO and RAFFAELLO, I the influence of the larger liners on her design is fairly easy to see. In particular the mast, funnel, the bridge area... In fact, notwithstanding the different color scheme and certain details, ANGELINA LAURO's exterior appearance was very much one of a shrunken MICHELANGELO or RAFFAELLO.

 

The dear old AL was well into middle age by then

While this is technically true, as I said, she was totally rebuilt in 1966 (RAFFAELLO was built in 1965) so the only things about her that were really older than RAFFAELLO were the hull and engines.

 

When she emerged she bore virtually no resemblance to the original ORANJE and really she looked pretty much up-to-date for 1966. If you lined her up with other ships built in the mid '60s it would not have been obvious that she was a conversion and not newly built.

 

vibrated like one of those old quarter-for-a-massage beds

That is probably attributable to the fact that she was a motorship. As a steamer, RAFFAELLO was undoubtedly far smoother.

 

But of course the engines were one thing that didn't get changed in ANGELINA LAURO's conversion, the hull itself being the other. The superstructure and passenger accomodation were totally new, though.

 

A rather personal one as there is a photograph of me in these pictures

Now that is quite a find!

 

If you are really in that photo I suggest you e-mail the webmaster to find out what brochure it was and then find yourself a copy of your own!

 

Perhaps you could contact Costa or MSC (depending on whether it was a Costa or Lauro brochure) and let them know that you were in one of their brochures 31 years ago and ask if you can get a free cruise or something out of it ;) ?

 

Now, another great web site for you... Since you are a RAFFAELLO veteran... I suggest you take a look at Project Michelangelo, the preeminent site about MICHELANGELO and RAFFAELLO and arguably the best web site about a specific ship(s) ever. An absolute treasure trove of information and photos! And who knows, maybe you'll find yourself in one of those too ;) !

 

I do envy you having sailed in these ships, all of them were gone before my time (though I did get to know some of their contemporaries which lasted longer, a few even being still around today). Well, actually, MICHELANGELO and RAFFAELLO languished in Iran into the 1990s they didn't die before my time but being in an "off-limits" country they were as good as dead for me!

 

Anyhow, we have done a pretty good top of taking this thread straight off-topic - but who cares ;) ? (Is it dereliction of duty if I don't care?)

[JLC@SD]

For you it would be dumb. Because you would KNOW the rules and then ignore them.

 

However for the poster who did not know the rules and was a first time cruiser.....they wouldn't be dumb. They would be ignorant of the facts that things get taken from baggage all the time.

Forest Gump understood...........Stupid is as Stupid does......:)