Maleth confirms end of P&O partnership

[molecrochip]

1 hour ago, jake 26 said:

Some interesting views and facts being presented.

I am wondering, however, with Arvia and Britannia being in the Caribbean together with a possible total of 8,000 pax, so 4,000 turn round each week, how sustainable that is, given 3 aircraft per 1,000 thus 12 aircraft needed for a return flight. That is almost equal to the whole TUI 787 (Dreamliner) fleet.

Given the arguments I accept long haul aircraft are scarcer than what they were, so the requirements for 240 aircraft to fly 2 transatlantic legs over the 20 week Caribbean season. and there will be delays, tech probs, does make me think it's not sustainable

It’s broadly 6 on a Friday and 6 on a Saturday. Of the 6, usually it’s 5 charters and the other plane split across BA and Virgins 3 scheduled London flights. Arvia increases that by two plane equivalents on each Saturday (operating BGI/Antigua) on alternative weeks.

[Guest]

I'd love to have the option to book my own flight at a slight discount. I’d fly out a couple of days before and extend the holiday. Use my air miles, reduce number of seats P&O need.

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 minutes ago, Glitterati said:

I'd love to have the option to book my own flight at a slight discount. I’d fly out a couple of days before and extend the holiday. Use my air miles, reduce number of seats P&O need.

 

I would do back to back cruises as well and save 2 flights needed for someone else if there was good value in doing it

 

[molecrochip]

53 minutes ago, doog442 said:

These Caribbean cruises are sold as a package holiday and are ATOL protected so there's protection built in, I'm struggling with the thoughts of some that the ultimate responsibility is with the airline for the delays, I'm not sure that entirely dissolves P&O of their responsibilities.  

P&O don’t have any planes so they fundamentally cannot be at fault for aircraft delays.

 

Turning to the package holiday contract, that gives P&O responsibilities towards passengers for issues such as flight delay even if not its fault. P&O have to provide board and likings at certain points etc. They also have to rearrange the travel.

 

That rearranged travel will then be dependent upon the back-up plane options contractually agreed with the charter operator. If the wait is too long, P&O may separately decide to use scheduled or other operators but whether their costs are met would be dependent upon the contract or ad-hoc agreement with the charter operator.

[molecrochip]

2 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I would do back to back cruises as well and save 2 flights needed for someone else if there was good value in doing it

If you contract a good TA or P&O direct, I believe you can have a discount on basis of only 1 set of flights across two cruises. However no discount anymore if you book cruise only and want to choose only flights.

[yorkshirephil]

43 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I would do back to back cruises as well and save 2 flights needed for someone else if there was good value in doing it

 

It is a shame they do not offer the combination saver on Caribbean cruises as 10% off two or more cruises would be significant.

[HalifaxYorksCruiser]

Just watching this video of the events of yesterday

 

 

[Leomins]

Maybe they need to stop the 7 night itineraries until more flight seats are available? 

[carlanthony24]

Watched Jamie's stream he did have a good time on Arvia just not the flights especially on the way back.

• Believes P&O will blame Maleth.
• Convinced P&O knew the plane was not departing till 7am by quoting flight radar etc. He has sent an letter and will not book anymore P&O cruises till he receives adequate response.
• Believes P&O should of set up a temp area for sleeping or something because they knew the plane was not going till the morning they were told from head office it was not departing till 4:40am.
• He was also saying P&O cut the passengers wifi off when things started to go bad, I thought the wifi tends to stop around midnight the day of departure, and also mentioned security wanted all the cruise cards of the guests leaving in Antigua.

 

Jamie did say don't believe everything everyone says on other sites people exaggerate a bit. One thing I thought was weird. He said he booked extra legroom seats for way out being near the toilet and was unhappy with the way the door was when opened surely you no the way the toilets doors on planes open and what to expect when being seated near a toilet.

 

What I did find rude is when he said about other vloggers saying nothing but good about another cruise line when they get freebies. Yes it does happen people will just say good things but because they do it does not mean they are wrong. Generally they could of had no complaints.    

Edited January 1 by carlanthony24

[terrierjohn]

6 hours ago, jake 26 said:

With respect I think it is you who is missing the point. P& O have considerably increased their need for more long haul charter flights by putting Arvia in the Caribbean with Britannia.

It seems that the flight structure they've put in place is inadequate in terms of contingency, as more flights means that the likelihood of the delays and technical problems affecting cruise passengers increases by the same margin. Delays and tech problems cause knock on delays. To deal with that contingency plans are needed which provide replacement aircraft,  as often happens with most airlines. P&O do not have those contingency plans it appears.

I fully accept P&O cannot control delays but they can put plans in place to mitigate them.

Just to set the record straight, Arvia was ordered on 1st Jan 2018, over 2 years before Covid closed down cruising.

Thomas Cook stopped trading on 23rd Sep 2019, nearly 2 years after Arvia was ordered, and destined for winter seasons in the Caribbean.

I certainly don't think P&O are the best managed cruise line in the world, but they would have needed a genuine clairvoyant at the head to have been able to accurately plan their 2023 winter Caribbean charter capacity faced with the problems that an airline collapse and a pandemic were going to create.

[Pandamonia]

I ended up getting extra legroom

on the way out and then extra space on the way back for free. Didn’t book any seats or pay anything. It was crazy how that worked out. 
 

the extra space seats suck though. The toilet is a right pain. People keep standing in your space and treading on your feet. Once even the cabin steward stood on me whilst I was asleep. It got to the point where I just slouched as low as comfortable and took as much of that space as I wanted and told the people waiting for the toilet to bugger off down the aisle. They got the message. Also the tray and screen suck on those seats. I really wasn’t a fan and glad I got it free. 
 

economy flights just suck. Especially on a full plane. Some extra legroom seats might be worth it if you need the space. There is nothing special about the Dreamliner. Toilet lids don’t even stay up which is just horrible. Food sucks. You can’t get any rest as the twit flying the plane just wants to keep talking at random times cutting in to your film or game or waking you up when sleeping. You get a couple of random drinks and then have to queue for the toilet. Because it’s a 3 3 3 layout you always get stuck next to some random person and if you are really unlucky you have to get up every time someone needs the toilet. 
 

if only I was rich enough for business class at least. 

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

9 minutes ago, Pandamonia said:

I ended up getting extra legroom

on the way out and then extra space on the way back for free. Didn’t book any seats or pay anything. It was crazy how that worked out. 
 

the extra space seats suck though. The toilet is a right pain. People keep standing in your space and treading on your feet. Once even the cabin steward stood on me whilst I was asleep. It got to the point where I just slouched as low as comfortable and took as much of that space as I wanted and told the people waiting for the toilet to bugger off down the aisle. They got the message. Also the tray and screen suck on those seats. I really wasn’t a fan and glad I got it free. 
 

economy flights just suck. Especially on a full plane. Some extra legroom seats might be worth it if you need the space. There is nothing special about the Dreamliner. Toilet lids don’t even stay up which is just horrible. Food sucks. You can’t get any rest as the twit flying the plane just wants to keep talking at random times cutting in to your film or game or waking you up when sleeping. You get a couple of random drinks and then have to queue for the toilet. Because it’s a 3 3 3 layout you always get stuck next to some random person and if you are really unlucky you have to get up every time someone needs the toilet. 
 

if only I was rich enough for business class at least. 

 

Flying in general unless you can afford business class or above is something we all just have to endure and get through in order to get to and from our holiday destinations 

 

It's never something to really enjoy

 

Like I say unless you can afford business or first class ongoing 

 

Funny enough I'm considering upper class on my outward flight to Cape Town coming soon

 

Which for the two of us will cost more than having a balcony on the 12 night cruise we've booked from Cape Town whilst we are there

 

Just to show how little we would benefit from our balcony that I'm considering spending more on a 12 hour flight  than I would consider to spend on a balcony for a 12 night cruise

 

I guess we all have to weigh up what different spends and choices to make

 

But I can't really sympathise with you having an unpleasant/uncomfortable flight as for me that's pretty standard anyway 

 

And not something I blame P and O for tbh

[molecrochip]

I have no inside knowledge on this incident however…. I want to put one fact out there… as I understand it.

 

Antigua is not a 24/7 airport. Its security checkpoints usually close at 10pm and reopen at 7am.

 

Antigua could extend the opening hours from 10pm till 2am ish to process P&O passengers as staff were on site.  They could not open early as staff would not be present.

 

Therefore either passengers arrive at 1am ish and flight could possibly leave at 0730. Or passengers arrive after 7am and the plane was leaving at closer to 10am. A further delay.

 

A hard choice to be made. I don’t know who made the decision.

Edited January 2 by molecrochip

[Peterson78]

9 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

But I can't really sympathise with you having an unpleasant/uncomfortable flight as for me that's pretty standard anyway 

What a pretty strange comment…..

 

9 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

And not something I blame P and O for tbh

 

neither was the poster …..

[Interestedcruisefan]

16 minutes ago, Peterson78 said:

What a pretty strange comment…..

 

 

neither was the poster …..

Am I the only one who finds flights a pain in the backside and something you have to endure rather than enjoy then?

 

And I should add

 

As well as not blaming P and O for flight problems - I don't blame the airlines either when there's a problems they can't control

 

Thats life in general 

 

Loads of problems with our roads and trains as well ongoing. Some avoidable and some not

 

All very frustrating regardless. What can you do to avoid them?

 

Emigrate maybe? 

 

Always be prepared for things to go wrong with travel and that way you can be pleasantly surprised when things actually go smoothly 

 

Whenever we drive to London to manage an event or enjoy something we've booked we always allow at least double the time it should normally take for the journey - as we can't control lots of travel stuff the same way airlines can't and P and O cant

 

You never know what might go wrong at any stage of the journey. Even when you take control of the journey yourself 

 

That's life!! Sadly.

 

Not everything goes to plan.

 

Claim the compensation when available and move on

 

I guess the louder you shout the more compensation you can claim on occasions

 

So that's fair enough as well

 

(Moleochip highlighted a decision that had to be made above that none of us would want to be the decision maker for)

 

Meanwhile posters start creating poster names to badmouth an airline hit by unexpected turbulence etc

 

I don't like the complainer culture in UK when it goes too far

Edited January 2 by Interestedcruisefan

[tring]

14 hours ago, molecrochip said:

If you contract a good TA or P&O direct, I believe you can have a discount on basis of only 1 set of flights across two cruises. However no discount anymore if you book cruise only and want to choose only flights.

 

Is a discount for cruise omly something P&O should be considering though, so not everyone is dependent on their flights?  Also selling cruise accomodation to specific agents, so they in turn could sell cruise and stay holidays. 

 

It makes no sense imo that there is no discount, even a minor one, if you wish to go with another flight.  I do understand though, according to a cruise sales rep on board Aurora that you can usually change the date of a flight up to three days before or after a cruise and arrange your own accommodation, or in the case of Med cruises, P&O can book you into hotels.  For the change of flight date, I was told all you loose is the transfer between the airport and port, unless you book the P&O hotel in Malta, when transfers are included.

 

I am wondering whether P&O may go along those sort of routes in the future.  If people make their independent arrangements through an agent they will have protection against disruption.

 

 

 

[zap99]

14 hours ago, molecrochip said:

P&O don’t have any planes so they fundamentally cannot be at fault for aircraft delays.

 

Turning to the package holiday contract, that gives P&O responsibilities towards passengers for issues such as flight delay even if not its fault. P&O have to provide board and likings at certain points etc. They also have to rearrange the travel.

 

That rearranged travel will then be dependent upon the back-up plane options contractually agreed with the charter operator. If the wait is too long, P&O may separately decide to use scheduled or other operators but whether their costs are met would be dependent upon the contract or ad-hoc agreement with the charter operator.

Sounds like P&O have put this issue in the too difficult box. Book a cruise on RC, X, NCL to the med and the best price us cruise only. Book your own flights and get lots of flexibility and save a few quid. P&O should offer a realistic discount to the Caribbean fir cruise only. Folk could go anytime before the cruise and get a few extra days.

[Presto2]

18 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Sounds like P&O have put this issue in the too difficult box. Book a cruise on RC, X, NCL to the med and the best price us cruise only. Book your own flights and get lots of flexibility and save a few quid. P&O should offer a realistic discount to the Caribbean fir cruise only. Folk could go anytime before the cruise and get a few extra days.

We have done a number of cruises with Celebrity using their flights and also booking their own. Becareful what you wish for as it puts a considerable cost on to your cruise doing it this way. You could go for a cheaper deal with them but people have ended up with silly flights that go all around everywhere to get to their departure point. Eg Manchester to Rome via Germany. 

Re the Caribbean its a no brainer if you want an affordable cruise to go with PO or TUI as the flight costs are so high and you'd need to fly out a few.days or day early and book a hotel incase of delays.

PO was by far the cheapest when we compared it to TUI. 

 

This is our experience .. others may have had a different one. 

[9265359]

53 minutes ago, zap99 said:

P&O should offer a realistic discount to the Caribbean fir cruise only.

 

Given the cost of scheduled flights they would have to be giving away the cruises for nothing for that to make sense to most people.

[Presto2]

3 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

Given the cost of scheduled flights they would have to be giving away the cruises for nothing for that to make sense to most people.

 

Made me chuckle, can see the advert now: Go with P&O cruises. Buy a flight and get a cruise thrown in for free.

[9265359]

Just now, Presto2 said:

 

Made me chuckle, can see the advert now: Go with P&O cruises. Buy a flight and get a cruise thrown in for free.

 

Well that's effectively what they are offering.

 

Currently you can book a 7 night in January for £999 and the cost of the flights there and back on the cheapest scheduled airline would £745 - so the cost of a 7 night cruise is £254.

[Interestedcruisefan]

21 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

Well that's effectively what they are offering.

 

Currently you can book a 7 night in January for £999 and the cost of the flights there and back on the cheapest scheduled airline would £745 - so the cost of a 7 night cruise is £254.

Those flights won't provide return transfers to the port though in that price

 

Nor allow you the confidence that you can arrive on the day the ship sails?

 

As the ship will be delayed?

 

And do your prices include cases on the plane?

 

And how much is it worth to avoid immigration at Barbados airport and waiting for your cases? 

 

Before hoping your transfer is waiting outside?

 

Factor in those costs and the cruise is even cheaper

Edited January 2 by Interestedcruisefan

[doog442]

Exceptional value really, especially for the Caribbean in high season.

[Presto2]

55 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

Well that's effectively what they are offering.

 

Currently you can book a 7 night in January for £999 and the cost of the flights there and back on the cheapest scheduled airline would £745 - so the cost of a 7 night cruise is £254.

Sorry am confused. Where does the £745 amount come from ?

[Interestedcruisefan]

4 minutes ago, Presto2 said:

Sorry am confused. Where does the £745 amount come from ?

745 return flight costs to Barbados?

 

Per person

 

I would imagine?