Is this a new Gratuities policy?

[Interestedcruisefan]

37 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

FWIW, here is Carnival Corp.'s official statement on the subject, intended to cover all of its brands:

 

Carnival Corp. & plc "has decided to take a uniform approach for its brands doing business in North America, so pricing is consistent no matter where guests are shopping," a spokesperson said. "Our total advertised price will now include all government-mandated taxes, fees and port expenses that we previously itemized separately for consumer awareness. While this is a California state law, we are making this change nationwide to ensure our advertised pricing is consistent no matter where guests shop for our cruises. Consumers and travel advisors will see the new advertised pricing starting on July 1."

 

The company already notified travel advisor partners on April 17 about its plans to comply so they would have time to consider steps they need to take.

 

"Fortunately, despite how our prices will now be advertised, the total price guests pay today for our cruises has not changed — guests still get the same great value and affordable prices we’ve always provided," Carnival said in a statement.

 

Slowly but surely they will be forced to become transparent.  

 

No mention of "staff appreciation fees"there though?

 

Do you think?

 

They will cling on to what they can still get away with whilst they can I'm sure 

[SCX22]

7 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

So how come P and O cruises can pay staff fair wages  without relying on passengers subsidising?

 

We've not had to give up cruising with them?

 

Why can't Princess make a business model work without needing to do this? 

 

Not privy to what or how P&O compensate their crew.  As a US Citizen without a British or Australian post address, I can't book their cruises.  From what I have gathered from my friends across the pond who will NEVER cruise with P&O again, there are cuts made elsewhere.

Edited May 29 by SCX22

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 hour ago, c-boy said:

It works , and for those engaged in the service industry here aren't complaining about it.

I'm complaining about being hoodwinked by the cruise line into what I'm giving them money for 

 

It's not the money it's the principle

 

Happy to give more money to Princess direct when they become transparent 

 

This is shady business practise already outlawed in other countries 

 

 

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, Teechur said:

The "envelope days" kept me away from cruising for decades. I like to know what a trip will cost me upfront. I would never remove gratuities and also tip generously on top of it. If the cruise lines included the gratuities as part of the fare, it would be an improvement. 👍

 

Interesting.  Even back in the envelope days we knew the expected daily gratuity.  I think a big difference for us is we didn't tip on top of what was deemed appropriate for each position.  

[Interestedcruisefan]

20 minutes ago, SCX22 said:

 

Not privy to what or how P&O compensate their crew.  As a US Citizen without a British or Australian post address, I can't book their cruises.  From what I have gathered from my friends across the pond who will NEVER cruise with P&O again, there are cuts made elsewhere.

I've cruised RCL, Carnival, P and O, Azamara and Princess

 

Princess the least impressive but I'm willing to give them another try

 

My parents have always cruised Princess and are highest tier. I will be warning them about the tips for next time

 

Quality of cruise is a whole different debate and nothing to do with this thread

 

With P and O the price you pay for the cruise is transparent. There's no tips/gratuities/crew appreciation expected nor added to your costs or taken from your card on top of your payment. 

 

So there's no possibility of misleading customers about what any extra payments they take from you are being used for

 

Because they don't take any. 

 

If you want to give any staff a tip you can choose to do so direct and it's theirs to keep

 

Very straightforward and simple and no flowery words or dark arts needed from anybody in the cruiseline to get you to give them more money before you leave the ship

 

Princess operating in the dark ages still compared to P and O

 

 

Edited May 29 by Interestedcruisefan

[JimmyVWine]

30 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

So how come P and O cruises can pay staff fair wages  without relying on passengers subsidising?

For what it's worth, Glassdoor shows that Princess has a higher job satisfaction rate among employees than P&O. While the people who pay the money might think that P&O's compensation program is better, the ones whose opinions count are the ones who receive the money. 

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, karatemom2 said:

 
I always hated the envelope situation as well. There was a weird subservience feeling to it and it was just awkward. Love knowing my crew appreciation is automatic these days and extra tips to anyone I choose is based on heartfelt extra thanks and appreciation and is received in that way as opposed to what prior felt like almost a class system that was weird for both giver and receiver. 

 

Oh man, I recall having envelopes and bills spread out on the bed and counting out money for each.  $2.50/day for cabin, $3/day for waiter, $1/day for the concierge, etc, etc.   I'm so happy to avoid that.     

[Interestedcruisefan]

5 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

For what it's worth, Glassdoor shows that Princess has a higher job satisfaction rate among employees than P&O. While the people who pay the money might think that P&O's compensation program is better, the ones whose opinions count are the ones who receive the money. 

 

Edited May 29 by Interestedcruisefan

[Interestedcruisefan]

4 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

For what it's worth, Glassdoor shows that Princess has a higher job satisfaction rate among employees than P&O. While the people who pay the money might think that P&O's compensation program is better, the ones whose opinions count are the ones who receive the money. 

It's worth nothing in what we are debating

 

Just another distraction

[SCX22]

Just now, Interestedcruisefan said:

Quality of cruise is a whole different debate and nothing to do with this thread

 

 

Yes, it does.  One of my friend's complaints were that venues (dining, etc.) were open for shorter period of time, not good for guests.  If you extend that to this discussion, this would mean the crew had more down time, which would mean they worked less and their compensation would be commensurately reduced.  Yes, they can keep the tips, but if their wages are reduced because they work less hours, then it's quits.  Again, this is speculation as you are speculating.

 

The definition of a living wage is flawed in terms of low skill cruise workers.  They don't pay for food, boarding, or healthcare while on contract, and their wages are reduced accordingly.

[latebloomer56]

2 hours ago, Shmoo here said:

Typically, if a direct cash tip is given to a crew member, they have to turn it in, and if the passenger has removed the auto gratuity it goes into the pool to be shared.  If the auto gratuity is not removed, the cash tip is returned to the crew member you gave it to.

 

 

 

 

That's what we understood as well, thank you. I like to auto tipping so never remove it. Always worried I missed someone before 😊.

[JimmyVWine]

2 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

It's worth nothing in what we are debating

What you are "debating" is whether there should be a wholesale shift in the way crew members are compensated.  And now you are suggesting that the employees' opinions on that topic are meaningless.  If my employer was considering changing the compensation structure of my company, I sure to heck would hope that they would consult the employees before they consult the customers.  

[ldubs]

21 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I'm complaining about being hoodwinked by the cruise line into what I'm giving them money for 

 

It's not the money it's the principle

 

Happy to give more money to Princess direct when they become transparent 

 

This is shady business practise already outlawed in other countries 

 

 

 

Why is anyone being hoodwinked or deceived.  The policy is there (and here) in black and white.  I think the issue is you strongly oppose the concept.  I'm not happy with the pooled tips, but being from a tipping culture, have less of an issue with the practice of gratuities being part of compensation.  

 

 

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, whitecap said:

Let me try one last time:  If your paid gratuities goes into a pool and Princess, at their sole discretion, decides who gets a slice of the pie, how do you know that your room steward, who did a wonderful job, got a slice?  

Let me repeat again.

 

Because 1. all.of the money goes into the pool except for cc charges. So we know the money all goes to employees in the pool.

 

2. That Steward is working under a contract that says he participates in the pool and gets his part of it.

 

What is unknown is exactly what the cut is for any given position (Steward  vs waiter for example) and what bonuses any individual might have gotten in addition to their cut.

 

You seem to be asking the same question over and over like you think that Princess just distributes the money on a total adhoc basis and could just not give someone their portion. Which is not so.

[TRLD]

19 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

It's worth nothing in what we are debating

 

Just another distraction

Actually it is a major portion of the system.  The employees did not like the old envelop system because it created a confrontational interaction on the last day with passengers. It also meant that their compensation could vary considerably from one cruise to the next. The cruise line then went to recommended, automatic, but adjustable by ship. That removed the awkwardness of some interactions on the last day, but still varied by assignment, so I'm response they went to fleet wide pools. The end result is a pretty stable payout from cruise to cruise, with the potential for additional bonuses based upon survey mentions and other feedback to management (survey scores, customer service mentions, etc)

 

End result is employees like it. Atleast all of the ones I know, including some that have worked for Princess for 20 years. One of which from the Philippines put his daughter through medical school on what he made as a stewardand whose son is also now a steward for Princess.

[TRLD]

32 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Oh man, I recall having envelopes and bills spread out on the bed and counting out money for each.  $2.50/day for cabin, $3/day for waiter, $1/day for the concierge, etc, etc.   I'm so happy to avoid that.     

Remember how awkward some of the interactions with staff was back then when they would come around for the tips buy did not want to act like they were coming for the tips.

[whitecap]

6 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Let me repeat again.

 

Because 1. all.of the money goes into the pool except for cc charges. So we know the money all goes to employees in the pool.  Yes the money goes to employees with no way to confirm "your room steward" will be one of the chosen ones.

 

2. That Steward is working under a contract that says he participates in the pool and gets his part of it.  So no matter his performance, he gets his share regardless?  You may think he did a great job but someone at corporate may have a different opinion.

 

What is unknown is exactly what the cut is for any given position (Steward  vs waiter for example) and what bonuses any individual might have gotten in addition to their cut.  Exactly, no one knows how, how much, or who.

 

You seem to be asking the same question over and over like you think that Princess just distributes the money on a total adhoc basis and could just not give someone their portion. Which is not so.  So you are under the impression that every Princess employee, per their contract, gets a share, no matter their performance. Interesting.  I would bet you a dinner meal in the buffet that you are not correct.  😁

 

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

So how come P and O cruises can pay staff fair wages  without relying on passengers subsidising?

 

We've not had to give up cruising with them?

 

Why can't Princess make a business model work without needing to do this? 

Because P&O operates under UK accounting law as a UK based subsidiary. They are also a UK focused line, not a US focused line like Princess, HAL, Celebrity. Their customer base is largely non tipping. From my time on P&O I suspect that there are very few non UK passengers on board. 

 

So basically 1. under UK accounting standards the same rules do not exist 2. their primary passenger base is from a non tipping area 

 

As such they do not give them a choice and roll it into the fares.

 

I do recall that there have been a number of issues in the UK press concerning some problems between P&O and crew concerning compensation.

 

The crew interactions are also quite a bit different. The crew is professional and do their jobs but the interaction is far more reserved with passengers than we have found on Princess.

[ldubs]

6 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Remember how awkward some of the interactions with staff was back then when they would come around for the tips buy did not want to act like they were coming for the tips.

 

Especially the maitre d' and asst maitre d' (whatever they were called).  Never saw them much but that last night they were greeting everyone who came in like long lost friends.     

[TRLD]

11 minutes ago, whitecap said:

 

He gets his share and if he is truly outstanding bonuses. If he is a poor performer he is likely not asked back for another contract  

 

Pretty much the same in most restaurants in the US when you look at tips over time some customers tip well, some tip poorly, some tip the standard amount every time they dine out, so the variance you imply is not really not that much.

 

I have also seen people on land and one would expect it is the same on ship that were very good at kissing up for tips, but were not very good employees for everything outside of the direct customer interactions.

 

So on land and on ship most get a very similar payout 

 

The system is very clear if you really want to reward employees you mention them in the survey. Which get them promotions, bonuses from the pool in addition to their share.

Edited May 29 by TRLD

[Ombud]

Do I get 20 lashes for this practice of mine?

 

I keep CA & add snacks and / or cash for:

> steward

> HW, W, Asst Waiter (HW takes my order)

> bar staff

> room service

 

But I don't have cash for:

> guest services

> maintenance (even when they fix my TV)

> buffet

> laundry

> security

 

Yet they ALL benefit from the CA. Happy crew = better cruise & it's still hands down less expensive than land trips (which I also do. See signature)

[rideev]

2 hours ago, TRLD said:

Let me repeat again.

 

2. That Steward is working under a contract that says he participates in the pool and gets his part of it.

 

We don't know that our cabin Steward gets any part of it or not. 

 

Great thing is though, we can all do whatever we like.  If one wants to remove CA at Guest Services they can (unless on Plus or Premier.). If one wants to increase them they can.

 

What difference does it make to you what your fellow passengers do in this case?

 

 

[Yehootu]

12 hours ago, HotRoot said:

Waiters and Assistant Waiters know your cabin number.  They have it on their "screen" when you sit down at their table.  Your medallion tells them your cabin number.  Your cabin steward knows your cabin number.  They should not have had to ask you for your cabin number.  Since medallions have come into play, I never have to give my cabin number to anybody.

I started by saying "awhile back" or pre-medallion might have been better.

[Yehootu]

12 hours ago, Bgwest said:

Please define:a while back

Pre Medallion would have been better. I assumed most know that the medallion knows all.

[memoak]

8 minutes ago, rideev said:

We don't know that our cabin Steward gets any part of it or not. 

 

Great thing is though, we can all do whatever we like.  If one wants to remove CA at Guest Services they can (unless on Plus or Premier.). If one wants to increase them they can.

 

What difference does it make to you what your fellow passengers do in this case?

 

 

Because I am very tired with people advocating dumping tips and actuality saying out loud when  I hand my bartender an envelope telling me I am an idiot