Theory on Kids on Board

[hammybee]

Ten or so days ago I said hello from the Oosterdam in Alaska and gave our snapshot take on our cruise. This included mentioning that there were about 200 well behaved kids on board, including my almost 16 year old. Time and internet cost prohibited me from responding to comments, while on board. I do recall that a few board members expressed surprise that the kids were well behaved.

 

While unruly kids rarely get my goat, I am well aware of behavior. The kids on this particular cruise were different and I too wondered why. They did not take over any space or comandeer elevators or have food fights or any of the other things I have seen on different cruises. In fact, they were rarely seen or heard. As many know, HAL does shore excursions just for teens out of Alaska. They tend to be sold out. On this particular cruise, they were cancelled do to not being able to achieve a minimum.

 

Toward the end of the cruise, I began to realize that most passengers were from the midwest ( discounting the huge poker group from New Jersey who were not travelling with kids)with a large consentration of folks from Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin and Michigan. The reason for this is that most schools on both the east and west coast do not get out until a week after most midwest schools. I do not like to make generalizations but it seems at least on this cruise, there was something about the midwest that tended to result in more well behaved kids, than not.

 

My daughter (who has a midnight curfew) told me a story of a teen who had a 2:00 AM curfew who did not return to his cabin. Anyway, the boy's parents contacted security and the teen coordinator was wakened and a major search conducted. To make a long story short, the kid fell asleep in another kid's cabin and did not wake up till 6:30 AM. The kid was grounded for the remainder of the cruise.

 

I have been on many cruises where staying out al night is a rite of passage for the majority of teens. Their parents expect their kidsto show at breakfast or dinner. This was not the norm on this particular cruise and the conservatism seemed to permeante all behaviors. This was also the first cruise for many and this too may have had something to do with behaviors.

 

Just a theory.

[darnapar]

Having lived in the mid-west (Kansas & Indiana) I can say I do think kids there in general are better behaved and more considerate to those around them. I've also lived in Western NY, NYC, Conn, & PA and have subbed at schools in some of those states

so I do have a base of knowledge.

[iluvcruzin]

I have never sailed on HAL but wanted to try it out based on the perception they cater to more of a adult crowd. Not that I am against children sailing as I took mine while they were teenagers, but now mine are grown I'd like to enjoy sailing with less onboard. Kids can vary on behavior and good & bad can result from any sailing and regardless of where they originate from. Even though some kids are having fun just being themselves, it can be annoying for others to deal with the screaming, laughing, horseplaying that goes on. Parents with children at home become immune to their behavior because they are dealing with it 24-7. Those who are empty nesters or have none see things in a different light.

 

I took my last Spring Break cruise this year (I've survived a few on different lines). I think it's great that families can sail together. I just would like to experience some cruises that more marketed for adults.

[Jacqueline]

I'm from the East coast and I would tend to agree with the original poster. There are exceptions and generalities are just that- but there are also certain cultural norms.

BTW I think in part HAL attracts families who dont care about being on a FUN ship. To some extent it is a self selecting group who is aiming for a quieter experience than one would find on Carnival or RCI.

[RevNeal]

In fact, they were rarely seen or heard.

 

Indeed ... as well it should be! I'm from the "old school," where Children are better seen but not heard ... and preferably not seen. I don't really mind there being such sub-humans on the planet, but I don't want to see, hear, smell, or feel them. Children turn my milk sour. Few things can cause me to bristle more quickly than the sound of a whining child. They leak liquids and odors and sounds. They behave like beasts. :) Especially boys. :D I should know ... I was a sub-adult boy once (for about 18 years). I was a monster. Mom should have locked me in a barrel and fed me through the bunghole from age 4 until age 15. Then, when I turned 16, Mom should have bunged up the hole, taken me to the middle of the Atlantic, and dumped me overboard. Thankfully, calmer heads prevailed.

 

Praise God, there is a cure for the plague of children; it's called "growing up." ;) Sadly, not everyone seems to have taken that cure.

[WindyCity]

Dear Rev,

From reading all of your posts, I sure would like to sail on the same ship with you someday! Your humor, insightful comments and little bit of "sarcasm" thrown in makes you seem like a person I would like to meet and know!

Kudos to you for your Comments on this thread - well said!

Kris

[assam]

I grew up in Illinois and now live on the East Coast. There is a difference! Although it's been 25 years since I lived in the Midwest, I do travel there from time to time and everytime I'm surprised at how I've forgotten how polite, friendly, and generally civilized almost everyone is, including the teenagers!

[F5Loar]

My take on kids (and adults for that matter) is you can pick a week in the year for your vacation but you can't pick who will be going with you. I've been on many that had wonderful kids of all ages while others seemed to have the kids from he ll on board. I don't think you can say this cruise attracts this type person. Sure HAL has more refined guests than a Carnival cruise which should equate to more refined kids but not always. Sometimes it has to do with when they get in groups with others they are not use to and the social thing of being cool sets in. I think we all know that school breaks and summer times are the most likely you will get the full ship of kids on board. It can really vary. Massdam had 300 during Easter break while during our first of June there were only 30. Big difference. The more you have the more likely it is you will see unruly and rude kids. And the Vista class having a more younger crowd on board will likely have more kids at any given time of the year. I think the cruise lines should give you a "kiddy count" when you book. They should be able to give you an estimate of how many will be during your week before you book.

[RevNeal]

Thanks, Kris ... I appreciate your remarks! I've enjoyed meeting a lot of wonderful people on cruises. If we have the chance, I'll enjoy meeting you too! :D

[ekerr19]

Well, this topic has been discussed many-a-time, but...

 

We've had our kids onboard numerous times...

 

Our kids have enjoyed each and every cruise they've been on - they understand the rules & regulations aboard each vessel - we make sure they do - it is up to the parents to make sure their children understand and follow the shipboard rules...

 

Unruly kids can be traced back to parents who don't really care.

[ekerr19]

P.S. Guys... it doesn't really matter where your kids are raised-- our kids go to private school in Colorado, but - WE TEACH THEM HOW TO BEHAVE, regardless of where their friends or anyone else attends school.

[Vicar]

Although I am certainly no expert , it is MHO that a childs behavior is more a result of the parents influence.

 

A friend of my Moms has been a teacher for close to 30 years. She has taught in poor inner city schools and has seen some of the most well behaved, respectful, thoughful children she has had the privilege to teach. Who know the value of an education will help them out of the environment they are in now through no fault of their own. Many of their parents do all they can to keep those kids on the straight and narrow, so they can have a better life then they had.

 

She has also taught in upper class private schools and has dealt with some of the most spoiled, rudest, inconsiderate monsters on the planet, who think they can get by in life because "My father is __________" (fill in some high Falutin' name or title).

 

She always says it doesn't matter if you were sitting in a bar smoking crack, or flying on the Concorde running a Fortune 500 company. If you aren't there for your kids ....its neglect.

 

Of course there are exceptions to the rule on both sides of the coin.

 

No one expects any child to be a complete angel 24/7 Adults cannot be that good 24/7. But there are certain levels of behavior that should always apply and be ingrained in a child at a very early age.

[darnapar]

Vicar, you are right about parental influence, but to some degree it is also the community of people around you that also makes a child. Having been there parenting while living in the mid-west is easier. It is more family oriented and less competitive (except Indiana and basketball) than the east. The mid-west also has a larger percentage of church attendance which may be another influence.

 

Rev, please tell me you are TOTALLY joking.

[Lisa63]

Vicar, you are right about parental influence, but to some degree it is also the community of people around you that also makes a child.

 

True -- however, children are taught in the home, and it is up to the parent(s) to help the child understand and avoid negative behaviors he or she may have witnessed on the outside. And that can happen anywhere you live.

[Vicar]

Lisa 63 and Darnapar

 

You both bring up very good points.

 

I (and its just my opinion) have never believed in the "it takes a village" line of reasoning. It takes a parent or close family member or guardian . No one will ever love and care about your kids the way you do.

 

Thats great that your kids have teachers, and clergy and guidence counselours and coachs and all that, but they should in no way be the key role models in your childs life. That is YOUR job.

 

All these above people come in and out of their lives. You are there or at least you better be there 24/7.

[glrounds]

Interesting comment from someone that professes a belief in a philosophy who's founder was overhead saying once:

"Suffer little children to come unto me......." :confused:

[RevNeal]

Rev, please tell me you are TOTALLY joking.

 

OF COURSE I'm joking. Totally? Well ... mostly. :) I WAS a naughty kid, though.

[RevNeal]

"Suffer little children to come unto me......."

 

I agree ... let them suffer! ;) :D

[jhannah]

Yes, kids are the result of their parents (as a general rule. Some rise above their parents.) But I do believe location and regional norms play a big role. Forgive me from quoting Hillary, but "...it takes a village." There is a difference in kids from various parts of the country, as a general rule. Sadly, however, a good bit of this difference is eroding. Still, midwestern kids grow up in an environment of hard work (like agriculture) being necessary for reward. It shows in their behaviors. Again, yes, parents play a huge role in instilling these behaviors. But life's lessons are invaluable.

[joangg]

Have you read the book "Primal Teen" by Barbara Straich? She collated the new studies on teen brains which have shown that the section of the brain dealing with impulsivity and judgement has literally shrunk in respect to being alert! Shop lift, why sure! it might be fun! Drop heavy metal stuff from freeway bridges, wow, what a great idea! Absolutely no conception of consequenses!! None, nada! Zilch! So a barrel for each kid is a good idea!

[hammybee]

Having moved from the midwest to the east coast and back more times than I care to think about at the moment, there is a difference in kids because there is a difference in parenting styles. This of course is a generalization and there are plenty of exceptions. The brattiness factor seems to be greater in NJ and NY and I am not sure why other than unruly behavior is considered the norm.

[jfishe]

Interestingly.. having a 16 year old son (I know... scary !) I'm with the 'it takes a village' theory. Why ? Because everyone in that village knows who he is and if he's not doing what he's supposed to be doing, someone from that village will call me and tell me ! And when he's wearing his letterman's jacket with his name emblazoned on the back... he can't get away with much. Ah... the joys of a group of networking parents ! That's what it takes !!!

[Sailure]

I agree ... let them suffer! ;) :D

Oh Greg, you are too too funny! :p

 

I've been on cruises with wonderful kids and I've been on cruises where some of the kids' parents should have been made to swab the decks for the entire cruise!

 

I don't blame the kids for the most part, although I've seen more than a few that should have been strung up where the lights and flags are!

 

That's when giving them the old "school teacher" look comes into play! It works wonders!:D

[linus99]

I am a teacher and I believe that children live up to the expectations that adults set for them. If the parents teach their child manners and expect a certain type of behavior, the child will generally respond. However, many "parents" believe that anything their child does is acceptable. They want to be friends instead of parents. They are afraid of stifling their child's creativity by setting any kind of limits. It is actually very sad.

I was on the Maasdam this past week and throughout the cruise I saw one child running around the Lido, touching the food, annoying the staff, cutting the line, bothering adults in the pool, etc. Someone actually thought he was my son. If he were my son he would have respect for the crew and other passengers. I never saw him with with an adult. This was a child desperately in need of supervision. I think his parents didn't really care what he did. It was pitiful.

 

Rose