Have you seen today's news on the Mariner

[Mamanance]

July 29

Mariner of the Seas

Royal Caribbean InternationalFor the second time this year the ship has experienced an outbreak of what appears to be norovirus. 221 of 3660 passengers (6.04%) and 6 of 1202 crew members (0.5%) reported illness. The ship returns to Port Canaveral on Sunday from a seven day cruise in the Caribbean.

Illness

[OceanCruise]

Has the Smith family put a hex on Royal Caribbean? Only kidding but it has really been one disaster after another for RCI after the George Smith incident and all their badmouthing of RCI.

[zqvol]

Fewer people on this cruise contract norovirus than is typical of the general population at any given time. This is just one of those things that happens. It is neither a disaster nor is it a hex, nor is it anything more than common everyday life.

[dougp26364]

Fewer people on this cruise contract norovirus than is typical of the general population at any given time. This is just one of those things that happens. It is neither a disaster nor is it a hex, nor is it anything more than common everyday life.

 

Are you saying that on any given day 6% of the population has norovirus? While I haven't looked that fact up I find it difficult to believe.

[Scorpiorose]

What is this virus anyway?

[hollywood34711]

They can't get a break, Orlando Sentinel page A13, "Florida woman missing from cruise ship off Italy". The ship is reported to be the Voyager. News outlets do tend to glom on, when something catches the publics attention,the stories take on a life of their own. Are there more incidents, or more coverage of incidents?

 

I have yet to sail RC, but am seriously thinking about a short cruise this fall, to see for myself how they compare. I don't think the news coverage will deter me. For more info there is always www.cruisejunkie.com . I don't think RC looks much worse than any of the others.

 

 

Now where did I leave my hand sanitizer.....

[broberts]

What is this virus anyway?

 

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/revb/gastro/norovirus.htm

[kittyg]

Fewer people on this cruise contract norovirus than is typical of the general population at any given time. This is just one of those things that happens. It is neither a disaster nor is it a hex, nor is it anything more than common everyday life.

 

I disagree.

 

Noroviruses affect about 23 million Americans annually. Assuming a population of 300 million, about 442K a week. That means 1.5 people out of a thousand are affected each week. With almost 5000 people onboard, we could expect 7 or 8 people to be ill with this virus in a normal week. Given the close conditions, you might expect it to be a bit higher.

 

230 would be far above expectations, and newsworthy.

[KMagz]

What is this virus anyway?

 

It is a fancy name for a stomach virus that typically goes around at any given school during any given school year to any given community. Just that there is a concentration of people on a cruise sharing common food prep/eating areas, etc.. which tends to make the outbreak worse.

 

The press *loves* to sensationalize on this as well.

 

Case in point, have you ever seen an AP newsire outlining how little Timmy Goobersnot's 2nd grade class in Peoria came down with a stomach flu and had to cancel the annual School Play Gala? Of *course* not! :D

 

Now had that class been on a CRUISE ship.......

 

- Ken

[Guest LetMeGo]

I disagree.

 

Noroviruses affect about 23 million Americans annually. Assuming a population of 300 million, about 442K a week. That means 1.5 people out of a thousand are affected each week. With almost 5000 people onboard, we could expect 7 or 8 people to be ill with this virus in a normal week. Given the close conditions, you might expect it to be a bit higher.

 

230 would be far above expectations, and newsworthy.

 

That's a pretty good calculation... Except for one thing.

You're forgetting how many ships there are cruising every week. Your calculation shows how many infected you would have on one ship. You have to remember that there are about 25 CCL cruises every week, 20 RCCL, 10 NCL, 5 HAL, 10 Princess... An understated estimate would be about 80 cruises with an average of 2,000 passengers every week, rounding it down to say 150,000 people cruising every week.

 

150,000 people x 1,5 affected people for every 1,ooo passengers = 225 affected people every week. Amazingly close to the affected people on the RCCL ship. :D

 

In reality, if your initial information of 23 million affected americans every year is correct, there should be one similar outbreak of norovirus on an American based cruise every week. Anything less than that means it's actually safer to cruise than it is to stay at home.

[kittyg]

That's a pretty good calculation... Except for one thing.

You're forgetting how many ships there are cruising every week. Your calculation shows how many infected you would have on one ship. You have to remember that there are about 25 CCL cruises every week, 20 RCCL, 10 NCL, 5 HAL, 10 Princess... An understated estimate would be about 80 cruises with an average of 2,000 passengers every week, rounding it down to say 150,000 people cruising every week.

 

150,000 people x 1,5 affected people for every 1,ooo passengers = 225 affected people every week. Amazingly close to the affected people on the RCCL ship. :D

 

In reality, if your initial information of 23 million affected americans every year is correct, there should be one similar outbreak of norovirus on an American based cruise every week. Anything less than that means it's actually safer to cruise than it is to stay at home.

 

I got the 23mill from a new article, guessed on 300 mill population. After that, you only apply the numbers to the group you are looking at. We are asking ourselves if 230 people on one ship of 5000 in a given week is exceptional.

 

Yes, RCCI can expect 225 of its passengers on all it's ships to be sick in a given week (didn't check your math), but odds are they would be spread out. To have the entire week's allotment all on one ship is exceptional, newsworthy and against the odds.

 

If the US expects 442K to become ill this week and we heard NY had an outbreak affecting 400K, we wouldn't say, no big deal, that's how many we expected anyway. Besides, we can assume the average number everywhere else would still be getting sick, so the total number this week might be double the usual.

 

Same with the cruise ships. Just b/c Mariner had 230 this week, I'll bet all the other ships had their usual 6-10. Multiply them and add to the 230 and RCCI as a group is far above their normal expectations.

[Inshape]

They have the hand sanitizers there at the front of the line in the buffet area to stop this outbreak. You would think people would know to wash their hands after using the bathroom. I have witnessed many a person who does not....YUCK!

[Guest LetMeGo]

I got the 23mill from a new article, guessed on 300 mill population. After that, you only apply the numbers to the group you are looking at. We are asking ourselves if 230 people on one ship of 5000 in a given week is exceptional.

 

Yes, RCCI can expect 225 of its passengers on all it's ships to be sick in a given week (didn't check your math), but odds are they would be spread out. To have the entire week's allotment all on one ship is exceptional, newsworthy and against the odds.

 

If the US expects 442K to become ill this week and we heard NY had an outbreak affecting 400K, we wouldn't say, no big deal, that's how many we expected anyway. Besides, we can assume the average number everywhere else would still be getting sick, so the total number this week might be double the usual.

 

Same with the cruise ships. Just b/c Mariner had 230 this week, I'll bet all the other ships had their usual 6-10. Multiply them and add to the 230 and RCCI as a group is far above their normal expectations.

 

I didn't say 225 on RCCL ships, but rather all the American-based cruise ships combined.

 

Obviously the percentage on a single cruise (5% of passengers) is enough to warrant a mention in the newspapers, but it isn't totally unexpected because of the close conditions you mentioned.

 

I would leave the half a dozen people possibly affected on every cruise out of this equation altogether since you would have those similar "unnoticed" cases on shore as well (like that "little Timmy Goobersnot's 2nd grade class in Peoria which came down with a stomach flu")

 

 

To sum it up, I'm not saying that one major outbreak a week is something you should expect out of cruising. I'm saying that one outbreak every month or two isn't actually that much over the average anyway. I certainly hope there will be even less incidents in the future. :cool:

[springtxbill]

I is interesting that the incidence of the virus is 12 times higher for the pax than the crew. Maybe they use better precautions such as washing their hands than the pax do.:)

[rsinj]

>

230 would be far above expectations, and newsworthy.

>

 

Not newsworthy in the least.

 

You have thousands of people in extremely close and confined space all coming into contact with eachother.

 

All of your calculations, percentages, etc. about normal rates of outbreak are not a good comparison because if someone on land were to contract the virus, they'd be quarantined to their home and their contact with others would be drastically limited. On a ship, a person gets it, and they've already gone to the buffet a few times, sat at the dinner table others and come in to contact with hundreds of others.

 

The news and media outlets make mountains out of mole hills. It's a pity the public gobbles it up and makes it into a much bigger issue than it really is. It just makes the media make an even bigger deal of it the next time it happens.

 

If everyone would practice good hygiene, the problem would go away.

 

Howard

[bpear1600]

They have the hand sanitizers there at the front of the line in the buffet area to stop this outbreak. You would think people would know to wash their hands after using the bathroom. I have witnessed many a person who does not....YUCK!

 

There are slobs everywhere. We witnessed the same thing on our last Mariner cruise which had a reported 300 plus infected with the virus. The actual number was probably closer to 1000 due to the great number of pax who didn't wish to be quarantined.

 

Families with children, old people, young people...all were observed skipping the hand sanitizers outside the buffet. Maybe they carried their own but I highly doubt it. This all occurred AFTER everyone was aware of the presence of the virus!

 

Of interest, half the singers and dancers had the virus the first day at sea but it was, of course, a passenger who brought the virus with them according to RCI.

 

We got it...the second time in over 20 cruises...and we stayed in our room for 3 days like we were told. We have never had the virus at any other time and we eat out several times a week at buffets, restaurants, ballparks and banquets.

 

Once we have used our noro credit the mass market lines may have seen the last of us.

[Fran Harp]

Has the Smith family put a hex on Royal Caribbean? Only kidding but it has really been one disaster after another for RCI after the George Smith incident and all their badmouthing of RCI.

 

Brilliance of the Seas had an outbreak of something, probably norovirus, when we were on in May. They are still using the hand sanitisers on board. Remember that a ship is a floating petri dish.....people bring stuff onboard, and probably some seniors who come on from retirement homes bring some of it along. Things pass through the air conditioning systems. Norovirus and nursing homes are a pair! If you wash your hands, use the sanitisers and take care handling railings and stuff, there's no reason to worry.:)

 

Think about all the stuff you could contract flying!!!! :eek::D

 

Fran in Toronto

[Mamanance]

This is the second time this year the Mariner has had the outbreak, then of course as reported previously:

 

July 26

Voyager of the Seas

Royal Caribbean InternationalRCI issued a statement that a 22 year old woman was missing from the Voyager of the Seas, sailing in the Mediterranean. The woman was last seen at approximately 12:30 a.m. Tuesday, when she joined her parents to sleep in their stateroom. At that time, the ship was sailing from Civitavecchia (Rome), Italy, to Naples, Italy. She was reported missing by her sister at approximately 7:30 a.m. Tuesday. A variety of onboard announcements and searches were immediately carried out,without success.

Missing

[stillababe]

They have the hand sanitizers there at the front of the line in the buffet area to stop this outbreak. You would think people would know to wash their hands after using the bathroom. I have witnessed many a person who does not....YUCK!

 

I just got off the Empress to Bermuda. I witnessed a crew member not wash her hands after using the rest room. She walked out of a stall, white uniform and all, just as I was walking into the stall she just vacated. As I turned around to lock the door, I saw her glance at herself in the mirror, smooth out her uniform, and walk right out. Yuck. I kick myself for not confronting her about it.

[critterchick]

They have the hand sanitizers there at the front of the line in the buffet area to stop this outbreak. You would think people would know to wash their hands after using the bathroom. I have witnessed many a person who does not....YUCK!

 

I think the hand sanitizers are antibacterial, so they would be ineffective against Norovirus. But I agree with you about the YUCK - every time I'm in a crowded ladies' room (after a show usually), at least a quarter of the women will decide that it's not worth the "bother" to say "excuse me" to get through the line and wash their hands. And I'll bet the men's room isn't any better.:eek:

[zqvol]

Are you saying that on any given day 6% of the population has norovirus? While I haven't looked that fact up I find it difficult to believe.

That is exactly what I am saying, that on any given day 6% of the people in this country have novovirus type symptoms.

[nlcentralchmps03]

I just got off the Empress to Bermuda. I witnessed a crew member not wash her hands after using the rest room. She walked out of a stall, white uniform and all, just as I was walking into the stall she just vacated. As I turned around to lock the door, I saw her glance at herself in the mirror, smooth out her uniform, and walk right out. Yuck. I kick myself for not confronting her about it.

Now I find that pretty disturbing and disgusting!

[cruisecookie]

Just keep in mind that cruise ships are required by law to report these viral outbreaks. Other venues like hotels, amusement parks, etc. have no such requirement. That is why it seems to be a cruise ship problem, when in reality it happens everywhere.

[TPKeller]

How did we humans ever survive the thousands of years before they invented hand sanitizers? :rolleyes:

 

The simple answer is soap and water. The simple, old fashioned, hot soapy water does wonders to prevent the spread of disease. Not because it kills the germs (as was already pointed out, anti-bacterial sanitizers just make the viruses laugh), but because the hot soapy water simply washes the germs off of your hands and down the drain! They don't have to be dead, just not on/in you!

 

Theron

[jwlane]

Have you seen today's news on the Mariner

Copied straight from cruisejunkie.com, and not cited!!! Automatic F!!!

 

Let's hope everyone takes that site with a grain a salt. Ross Klein makes his living pointing out every negative aspect of the cruise industry.