Alaska Group 12 - The Lost 29 - Holland America (Combined Threads)

[the2ofus]

Ah, David, I am grinning:D . Please climb out ot that hole. You have so many clear insights to share.

 

I often forget to quote the post I am replying to. This time, given the "fun" time on that other thread, I was SO careful to quote so as to avoid misunderstanding. Clear communication is not only in what we say but in how well we interpret what we read or hear.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

What I can't get over about the OP's situation here is it took THREE-AND-A-HALF DAYS for HAL to get them to their ship! Three-and-a-half days of sitting around waiting. How could it have taken them three-and-a-half days to make arrangements to get them out of there? I'm just dumbstruck by HAL's seeming incompetence in this matter.

 

Robin

 

Agree with you Robin, I am as flabbergasted by Stringreen's ordeal as you are. :confused:

 

Karin

[wrp96]

At least y'all didn't resort to name calling like they did on that Princess thread you posted the link to. The offending posts have been removed now, but I was AMAZED at the tone when I read them earlier.:eek:

 

What I can't get over about the OP's situation here is it took THREE-AND-A-HALF DAYS for HAL to get them to their ship! Three-and-a-half days of sitting around waiting. How could it have taken them three-and-a-half days to make arrangements to get them out of there? According to the OP on the Princess thread, the Princess staff had their people to the Princess ship by the wee hours of the next morning, and the ship waited for them! I'm just dumbstruck by HAL's seeming incompetence in this matter.

 

Robin

 

I was thinking the same thing. Stringcruiser didn't make it to their ship for 3-1/2 days. The person on Princess made it for the entire cruise, but complained because he missed getting to take the train from Denali down to Whittier. There's a big difference in these complaints.

[sail7seas]

I'm still trying to figure out which ship. Did OP name the ship somewhere and I missed it?

 

[OldCodger73]

It was the Ryndam. Stringreen posted a much more detailed post on the Alaska board. Here's a link to the thread.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=406790

[hammybee]

I'm still trying to figure out which ship. Did OP name the ship somewhere and I missed it?

 

Good question. I am curious about the dates too- thinking this might be pushing 2 weeks by now.

[hammybee]

I decided to answer my own question about the timing of this. It was 8/18-19.

Here are a few of the excerpts I retrieved from news wires: ( where have I been???)

 

All passenger/frieght train traffic to/from Denali suspended.

The main hwys. and rail between Anchorage and Fairbanks closed.

Mudslides washed out 55 feet of track.

Some bridges washed out.

Home evacuations.

Many people stranded in Red Cross Shelters.

 

In other words, this was serious stuff, a mini Katrina, Alaskan Style. This most certainly ruined many vacations. I have a new appreciatoin for how challenging a time this was for all parties.

[Home at last]

#1. You guys weren't there to experience the way we all were treated by HAL. None of the OP's comment were at all exaggerated and I know there were people on that tour that sat in the hotel for more than 48 hours without a single answer given to them about anything.

 

#2. HAL representative Adam in Fairbanks is, in fact, the district manager. There is absolutely NO excuse for a client being told to rent a car and go somewhere else.

 

I was there. I know.

[NoNoNanette]

#1. You guys weren't there to experience the way we all were treated by HAL. None of the OP's comment were at all exaggerated and I know there were people on that tour that sat in the hotel for more than 48 hours without a single answer given to them about anything.

 

#2. HAL representative Adam in Fairbanks is, in fact, the district manager. There is absolutely NO excuse for a client being told to rent a car and go somewhere else.

 

I was there. I know.

 

It sounds absolutely horrid, and I'm sorry for all of your trouble.

 

It appears as though you're fighting a losing battle with this board's HAL APOLOGISTS. ;)

[happy cruzer]

This is a bit Off topic. But I had a misconception about booking the entire trip through the cruiseline that many may have and since the original post starts with everything was booked through HAL it's pretty much all HALs fault, I'll try to describe this area of confusion.

 

I have had it explained to me that the cruiseline is only providing a service when it does this much the same as a travel agent does. That it does not take on responsibility for the other carriers such as air. About the only way the cruiseline can help if something goes wrong is to hold the ship as long as possible but even this the port authorities have the ultimate control over. So when I used to think that if I booked air, transfers, and cruise with the cruiseline, that they would get me to the ship at their cost if anything went wrong. But that is not so therefore we hear all the stories of being stuck. Only travel insurance will cover most of the problems and even then it does not cover everything. But when things go wrong, the cruiseline and your travel agents can try to help you find workarounds. But if the cruiseline is not the actual carrier that you are on, then they are not responsible. One easy understand example is you have booked your air through HAL on American or somebody and the airport is snowed in four 3 days and you can't get to the ship, then only your travel insurance will help you; American will give you a ticket for another travel another time. But Hal won't give you a refund because you missed the boat.

 

I am not explaining this well. But it is very important on what part of the tour the OP was on, if he had not started a HAL operated tour then I can see where there would be lots of problems that might be out of HALs control. If he was on a HAL tour then yea, it's their responsibility to take care of him and make it right. But just booking it through HAL doesn't make it thier problem.

 

At least that is how it was explained to me. So I don't see any advantage of booking through HAL ,it you can find a cheaper price.

 

I'm sorry this got long.:eek:

[hammybee]

:

 

Happy Cruiser: You did a more than credible job of explaining the realities of travel and in effect, agency law. It is unfortunate when weather or events, beyond the control of anyone, ruin people's vacations. It's even worse when complicated inter-dependencies, human error, short fuses and what not, on the part of service providers, make an already bad situation, worse.

 

None of us know why it took so long to get passengers to the ship. None of us know what hole in the earth, luggage fell into. Maybe it's as simple as too many guests and too few methods of transportation and at the end of the day(S), some were going to have to wait it out. And I think we all feel badly for the passengers who had there vacations ruined.

 

It would have been swell if HAL chose to do some damage control after the fact, if for no other reason than to express genuine concern and advise those with Trip Interruption insurance to file a claim. It seems HAL missed the window of opportunity.

[Agua]

:confused: :mad: :eek: :mad: On Saturday, August 19th, 2006, heavy rains and mudslides blocked rail and road travel (main highway) between Denali and Anchorage. During Saturday and Sunday, HAL and Carnival tourists were herded into the "Gold room" in the Westmark Fairbanks Hotel, awaiting announcements that HAL staff promised to make. Fortunately, some HAL and Carnival guests received their plane or motor coach rides to Anchorage within 24 hours; unfortunately 29 guests of tour 12 were forgotten by HAL.

 

The 29 were not included on the AA plane manifest and denied air flight on Sunday AM. Even though 4 lists of the 29 names were provided to HAL staff, they still forgot what guests were to be on the Ryndam on Sunday PM. HAL staff promised that the 29 would not be left behind by the ship. However, 3 1/2 days later (Wed pm), the 29 were on the ship. No special concessions were provided to them for the 'on-call' waiting for further instructions, hauling carry-on (luggage sent to the ship previously) early morning travel with no breakfast, etc; unless, you think that $500.00 on-board ship credit, a bottle of wine and chocolate-dipped strawberries is a great offering. Trip-of-a-lifetime...ruined. Guest relations...ha ha! More like Holland America Lines, Where you Bound to be Forgotten and Treated like you are Invisible.

 

Just like in 2001, Space Odyssey, don't trust HAL!!!!! DO NOT TURN YOUR BACK!! Three thousand plus dollars better spent on road trips with the high cost of Gasoline! (Hey, I understand a person can drive through Canada to Alaska with $1000.00 in Gas money!)

[Sunshine91]

 

Would anyone have wanted Adam's job that week? Have any of you working in any customer service field ever gotten off the phone with a difficult customer & just really wanted to put your fist thru the wall? Or a stiff drink? Or worse? I'm just guessing here, but he was likely very frustrated with everything going on & the wrong thing came out of his mouth. We're all human & sometimes say the absolute wrong thing that we don't mean at the wrong time & regret it terribly. Not trying to excuse it, but perhaps offer an explanation.

That mudslide must have been frightening. Haven't read about any injuries here & that's a good thing. I feel bad for those that missed out on their holidays & then were stranded at the hotel. Probably felt like they got dumped on by the mud again. Hope everyone gets it all worked out to their satisfaction. Write that letter to Mr. Kruse. But come back here to CC to let us know what happens. I sure hope it doesn't put you off cruising.

[happy cruzer]

Hi, sunshine your post made me wonder under what circumstances would Adam's remark possibly be justified? I too work a reception type desk. And when I have customer go on and on and on somemore about a problem especially when it has been explained that there is nothing more that can be said or done to help them. It usually takes about 30 minutes of going over the same ground before I recommend that they try someplace else that they think will fit their needs better. Usually that gives them back the perpspective that they are asking for the impossible.

 

I AM NOT MAKING an excuse for Adam. I am just saying I know of one case where I might say if you can get yourself out of here quicker, go for it.

 

If the OP was on a HAL tour, I believe he absolutely deserves to be compensated for the things that happened to him.

[sail7seas]

You know what? That is such an obvious question. If someone is being compensated then why complain. Could it be that someone didn't have insurance? Its a reality that not every traveller takes out insurance so that could be one scenario.

 

Just for the sake of conversation.......

 

Sometimes the money is not the issue. Whether this cruiser had insurance and would receive funds to cover the part of the vacation he missed, may be of far less importance to him/her than the fact they might have traveled a long distance to get to Alaska. Perhaps there is little chance he/she can return some day. Perhaps this trip had a lot of sentimental investment? Etc Etc

 

Maybe the money was the least of what was painful about missing out on so much of his cruise. Maybe they aren't 'short on funds' and can easily absorb the financial factor.

[BeBeReader]

Stringreen,

 

I doubt that HAL will do anything to compensate you for your damages as you can see from the offer that you accept $500 in ship credits. My suggestion (I am an attorney) is that you send a letter restating this post (which is shorter than the other one) to HAL's CEO. Tell him that if you don't get a full refund for the cruise portion or credit for another cruise worth the same amount within 10 days, you will sue. Then sue.

 

If you have an attorney or friends who are attorneys, I am sure they will gladly go over the wording of your Complaint with you.

 

BeBe

[sail7seas]

I am Not an attorney but I think that in HAL's contract with guests, the venue for suit is Seattle, WA. That might be quite inconvenient for the OP. I wonder how many threats of suit and actual filing of suits HAL (all cruise lines) receive in a given year.

 

[happy cruzer]

Hi, when something goes wrong on a cruise, it usually takes time to get the compensation. The staff on board have very limited ability to provide compensation. The guys at corporate usually do that.

 

The example I know of first hand was a problem on Celebrity that made many passengers upset, meeting in the customer service area, petitions, calls to lawyers etc. We did get 50% off a future cruise but it happened 6 months after the fact.

 

I certainly expect that the OP will get more from HAL once corporate has done their due diligence but it may be awhile even if a lawyer is involved. I haven't seen that getting lawyer makes things happen faster.

 

I sincerely hope the OP is provided additional compensation but it may take awhile.

 

Sail, I agree the emotional loss may be the worse part. Our legal system though has been designed to put a dollar value on pain and suffering. So everything does tend to boil down to dollars. and that's exactly why the people who went through 3 1/2 days of uncertainity should be compensated additionally.

[DD]

I just wanted to express to the OP how badly I feel for him. It sounds like a terrible experience. I know that when people cruise, particularly to a destination like Alaska that is normally once-in-a-lifetime, expectations are so high. Those expectations were not met and I can't even begin to imagine how disappointed you must have been. I hope that, in the end, HAL makes this right. They are normally one of the absolute best cruiselines to deal with both from a TA perspective and as a passenger so I am hopeful that you will ultimately get satisfaction from them.

[sail7seas]

Happy cruzer...... I agree compensation seems to be in order here.

 

My comment was in reference to another poster saying that if the person received compensation from insurance, then why the complaining. I don't happen to agree that it is only about money as to why OP may 'still be unhappy' about the experience. Getting insurance reimbursement does not negate the sense of loss OP experienced.

 

But, yes....money is the only method to 'make whole'.

 

[happy cruzer]

We have been trying to help a passenger:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=406696

 

Were you on board? Your first post seemed to be mostly a flame and not an attempt for information or discussion. Hope you find what you needed in the other post. The search function will probably find you more info too.

[SanDiego Single]

I am glad you are home safe and sorry you had such a bad exprience. I would certainly be very upset with such awful treatment. But I love HAL so much and they offer me a single supplement so I am going to stay with them.

[BeBeReader]

A consumer with a complaint does not need to file where corporate headquarters of the corporation, here HAL, is located. HAL advertises on the internet. It contracted with Stringreen in the state where he lives, which is where he should file a complaint. I do not think that HAL will ignore a formal Complaint filed in a court of law. That is quite different from a complaining letter, which is easy to ignore.

 

BeBe Reader

[Copper10-8]

I'm assuming (never a good thing, I know) and without having looked at the OP's itinerary, that the cruise portion of his bad experience was a seven dayer, correct? He missed exactly one half of that cruise plus the entire land portion or am I misreading that?

[richwmn]

The choice of venue has many rules concerning it, but the mere fact of advertising on the internet is not one of them. Any language in the contract (in this case the cruise contract) would determine venue. Many large corporations place such wording into their contracts to restrict lawsuits to places favorable to them. If there is no such wording, in general a corporation can only be sued where they have a presence, such as an office or agent, just as an individual can only be sued, in general, in their home county. In the case of the cruise lines, this would include Seattle, Los Angeles, San Diego, Miami, Ft Lauderdale, Norfolk, Boston and New York (and probably others where they have an agent).

IANAL!