Alaska Group 12 - The Lost 29 - Holland America (Combined Threads)

[elmorejj]

LOVE IT!!! and couldn`t help singing along.....way to go!!.........jean:cool:

[sail7seas]

Very cute.........

 

[krewzin]

Yes, they probably do know each other.

 

I believe that the group has banded together to get an appropriate response from HAL for this major screwup, thus they are trying to get the word out anyway that they can.

 

So several of the group is posting the incident and their experiences on cruise forums in order to be heard.

[OldCodger73]

Basically, if the facts are as stated [note: I'm not casting doubt on the original poster, only giving the usual disclaimer one sees everywhere] then there are two issues here.

 

The first is the mudslide which caused a disruption in the land tour. This is an act of God and no reimbursement is justified.

 

However, the failure of HAL or its representatives to include the people from the land tour on the list it sent to the airline and seemingly forgetting them, causing them to miss one-half of their cruise, does in my mind call for some form of restitution. To me, either refunding one-half of the cost of the cruise or a 50% reduction in cost in the same class cabin they had booked on a future 7 - 10 day cruise should be adequate.

 

I also feel that bringing the WTC into this thread is inappropriate, off topic and bears no relevance to the subject matter of the thread.

[hammybee]

3)If it was money on my back? I'd want to reimburse the people for what they missed on my watch. I put it that way because there is the one point of the unexpected mudslide. But once HAL woke us for the alternate flight they claimed we were on, only to have us among the missing, it became their responsibility, their watch. The rest of Tour 12 had a full cruise. The 29 of us left did not.

 

Again, my thanks for the various suggestions from the experienced cruisers. They've been most helpful

Bluejay2

 

My typo. I meant MONKEY, as in problem.

 

Another poster from Group 12 mentioned that there were about 250 passengers, of various cruise lines, who were in the same situation, and by this, I inferred that more than 29 people had their vacations disrupted. If this is true, does it seem possible that this may have been a case of too many passengers and too few seats on airplanes and at the end of the day, some were going to have their vacations disrupted, no matter what?

 

I live near O'Hare (ORD) airport in the Chicago area. When Chicago has weather related problems it sometimes creates havoc with worldwide schedules. When this happens, passengers miss original and connecting flights to their destinations.

 

It is not uncommon for passengers to be separated from their luggage.

It is not uncommon for passengers, to sleep at ORD, and occasionally for more than a night. It is not uncommon for passengers to be sent on multiple wild goose chases, airline to airline, in hopes that they might get a connecting flight, that will eventually get them to their destination. And it is not uncommon to see masses of humanity at ORD, ready to kill.

 

Some of them become unreasonable. Some of the airline employees become neyond testy. It's a dynamic situation and there is a heck of a lot of misinformation. Some passengers are more fortunate than others, and are able to snag a seat on an already overbooked scheduled flight, once things start moving again.

 

But some of these passengers end up missing business meetings, interviews, escorted tours and cruises. The meetings happen, someone else gets the job and tours and cruises leave on schedule. And all of this happens despite knowing that people are stuck, somewhere, in the airline systems. And when this happens, it sucks. The passengers with Trip Interruption Insurance are the ones that get compensated for their ruined vacation plans and lost luggage, above and beyond the customary.

 

Ancorage/Fairbanks is not ORD, and this is both good and bad. I do not know what kind of planes these were. So many planes in Alaska are smaller than the typical commercial planes, most of us fly. Given their size, they are highly sensitive to weight, combined passenger and cargo, and sometimes this is why some of the planes, some of the time, are at capasity, when there are empty seats.

 

Oh Bluejay2, I am not trying to diminish your experience. I think most of us understand how frustrating and dissappointing this whole deal was and how things were compounded with the uncertainty of information.

 

I am not a lawyer. I do not know, with certainty, if there is resourse for your distress. Planes, boats, trains, buses, tours and cruises do not have responsibility when weather creates havoc with their plans. That HAL gave those effected a $500 credit may be more than most planes, boats, trains, buses, tours and cruises would do under the circumstances. The folk who end up sleeping at ORD would love to have any form of compensation for their aggravation, discomfort and missed opportunities.

 

I can also understand that such credits may not be desirable given many in the Group of 29 are probably disinclined to cruise again or if they are, it 's probably not going to be with HAL. Is there a chance that HAL will give passengers cash? I have no idea. I hope that most of the 250 people had Trip Interuption Insurance because this is what such policies are there for.

 

If it were me.....I probably would have rented a car/van and opted out of the group air thing, if roads were passable. Thats just me. I used to fly too much and know that I am usually better off being my own captain, than relying upon an already strained system to sort it all out.

 

I hope all of you keep us posted on how this all turns out. In the end, I am grateful that you are all safe and a few of you were able to put the whole unfortunate mess behind you and not let it spoil your entire experience. Peace, love and joy to all.

[Copper10-8]

Hang on, were going downhill fast folks!:rolleyes:

"Acts of nature" - no one's fault

Multiple screw ups by HAL-Westours personnel to try to get the "Fairbanks 29" to their ship in Seward - no doubt!

HAL should be compensating them for that and let's move on

Leave 9/11 out of it!:mad:

[serendipity1499]

I almost wonder if Agua knows Stringreen? Or at least on the same "first time posters" team.

 

Of course they know each other & they may very well be on the same team as you put it..Haven't you been reading the same story from at least 4 in the same group?

 

As I said in a previous post "Lets face it there were 29 people involved in this fiasco..Don't you think, if a few of the 29 people knew about this board they would be sure to tell others..Many more of them might eventually post? Or do you think they were in their own little worlds whiling away the time in the "Gold Room" of the Hotel filled with hundreds of people"

 

How can 29 people in the same group not know each other after being the only ones left of hundreds of passengers & having spent many hours in one room..And finally being put on the same flight together & spending more days together on the ship!

 

Wouldn't you be posting, as a newbie, if you had found out about this board from your fellow passengers in the group that was left behind?

Some of them are venting as well as looking for suggestions from experienced cruisers on this board.. Why would anyone question how they know each other or if they are on the same team? Isn't it better for them to get suggestions from us & follow through than to take other extreme measures..

 

So what if it's been discussed before..Why can't we answer the same question a hundred times..It's like new posters coming on & asking about the dress code & those that say "Here we go again"..If you don't want to answer, why not skip this thread & move on instead of making insinuating comments..Betty

[gipress2]

Hello, Just to let you know my wife and I are part of the Lost 29. Weather played a part which entailed bus to Fairbanks verus train to Anchorage and that is all. Starting the next day (mismanagement takes over) by getting up at 4:15 am and going to the airport only to find that Holland America had lost the manifest list. Being lied to constanly getting up the next 3 days at 4:30 am daily in by no means my idea of a vacation celebrating our 26th year of marriage. Now Holland America is proving once again that they have no sense of providing customer satisfaction. The $500.00 dollar refund if an insult to all of us.

 

My suggestion is do not travel via Holland America and I will tell the world that this company has no backbone. They should be forced to drop the word America from their company name.

 

Simply put Holland America is about greed.

[hammybee]

 

So what if it's been discussed before..Why can't we answer the same question a hundred times..It's like new posters coming on & asking about the dress code & those that say "Here we go again"..If you don't want to answer, why not skip this thread & move on instead of making insinuating comments..Betty

 

I'm with you serendipity. For all we know we might be hearing from all 29 and so what if we do. They are hurting and angry. We can listen,empathize and maybe help a few put it into perspective or,as you said, just skip the threads.

[hammybee]

You are the 4th of the HAL Group of 29 to post here. As we understand it, more than 200 passengers on other cruise lines were also dissappointed. We are saddended by your misfortune and understand your anger.

[Host Walt]

Because there are several threads on this topic, we have merged them into this one.

[dakrewser]

Because there are several threads on this topic, we have merged them into this one.

 

YEAH!! - but I think you missed one, Walt

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=403760

[HeatherInFlorida]

Gee thanks, Dave, we really needed that one, too!:)

[Host Walt]

YEAH!! - but I think you missed one, Walt

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=403760

 

Not really. Different issue.

 

That thread is about lost luggage, not about the lost cruise days.

[cruiseco]

Their contract lets them off the hook, .

 

 

As the lawyers in this thread have pointed out, if a judge wants to toss out the venue clause, or any other part of the contract, it's perfectly possible to do.

 

Over the years the biggest problem for the cruise lines and their Passenger Contracts has been the timing of the passenger first reading and signing the contract.

 

The passenger typically first sees the contract at the time the final cruise documents are delivered. At that time the penalties for cancelling the cruise are usually at a mimimum of 50% of the full cruise fare or even 100%. At that point it's tough to argue that the client is free to refuse to sign the contract.

 

Of course, it's easy to say that the client should know better and should read the contract before any penalties are in place. But you have to remember that the well-educated members of Cruise Critic make up only a small fraction of the total number of cruisers out there. Aunt Agatha will buy cabins for the whole family for a 50th anniversary. Maybe, but probably not, the TA will dig up a copy of the contract for her to look over.Maybe, but probably Aunt Agatha will think to ask for it. And maybe she'll read and understand what she's signing away. But the other 30 family members won't see anything until it's too late to back out if the contract has clauses to which they object.

 

Anyway, as I posted before courts have generally sided with the cruise lines by about a three-to-one margin (that's just off the top of my head from years of reading the trade magazines). But no one should be discouraged from bringing suit just because "it's in the contract." Not only does the venue clause regularly get thrown out but the whole contract has been voided in some cases.

[BeBeReader]

Kudos to you Cruiseco! You get it. I hope HAL does and appropriately compensates the 29.

 

BeBe

[Home at last]

Walt,

 

The only reason it appears my original post was about lost luggage is that the cruise portion of the vacation was over. The actual subject of the post was the lack of caring on HAL's part, the lack of CUSTOMER SERVICE. It doesn't matter that this was the very last portion of the trip.

 

What matters is that HAL has lost customers due to their lack of forethought and lack of communication.

[hammybee]

Walt,

 

The only reason it appears my original post was about lost luggage is that the cruise portion of the vacation was over. The actual subject of the post was the lack of caring on HAL's part, the lack of CUSTOMER SERVICE. It doesn't matter that this was the very last portion of the trip.

 

What matters is that HAL has lost customers due to their lack of forethought and lack of communication.

 

Host Walt: Home at Last was a part of the mess and the first OP on the topic. I do think it belongs here for archival consitency.

[happy cruzer]

Hi, Cruiseco, Thanks for discussing your view of the contract. I am very interested in your opinion of how the 29 folks should progress. As you will note from one of my earlier posts, I was involved in a very bad situation on Celebrity. I would say almost on the magnitude of the this one. My experience was that I received a 50% discount off of a future cruise. I think I was part of a class action. There was fellow passenger with a lawyer on staff that took this one on. But I don't think they ever did more than document the compliant and follow up to get our discounts.

 

I personally think the $500 OBC is not too bad and if hal also threw in a future discount I would have to just get on with life. I don't think I would incur one penny in legal fees on this one especially if they have already come up with the $500 OBC. What would you do? Also do you think any of the travel insurance policies would cover any of this besides the meals, I think hal covered lodging?

[cruiseco]

Hi, Cruiseco, Thanks for discussing your view of the contract. I am very interested in your opinion of how the 29 folks should progress.

 

Step #1 Get something in writing from the cruise line stating their position and any compensation they might offer. Of course, the problem there is they can take forever to come up with some sort of final offer.

 

Step #2 If you have travel insurance step #1 becomes very important because no claim will be paid until the insurer knows what, if any, money will be coming from the cruise line so any claim payment will be adjusted accordingly. The faster you get step #1 handled the faster your claim with your insurer will go.

 

Step #3 If the previous steps do not result in what you feel is a satisfactory outcome there's a variety of choices from there -- you can request arbitration through services such as the Better Business Bureau, you can contact a lawyer in your home location, or you can contact a lawyer at the cruise line's preferred venue. Suing in the cruise line's preferred venue might in fact be your best option because you have a far better chance of finding a lawyer who is familiar with cruise line law and who maybe has been through all of this before. The odds of finding someone of similar experience in most communities is about nil. I'm not 100% sure but I think most large cities have some sort of ABA referral service so if you ask them they can probably point you to a firm that does that kind of stuff. Good luck!

[happy cruzer]

The path you outline is a very good one. And it confirms my experience that it is probably going to take a long time to reach a conclusion, in my case it was six months.

 

do you think they have the option to just file with their insurance companies based on the $500 OBC and just not mess with trying to get more from HAL? then maybe the insurance company might go after HAL.

 

Hoping for the best.

[cruiseco]

The path you outline is a very good one. And it confirms my experience that it is probably going to take a long time to reach a conclusion, in my case it was six months.

 

do you think they have the option to just file with their insurance companies based on the $500 OBC and just not mess with trying to get more from HAL? then maybe the insurance company might go after HAL.

 

Hoping for the best.

 

If they've got something in writing from the cruise line stating that the $500 OBC is the best that they'll do they can file a claim with the insurer. Actually, they can file at any time but need to be prepared for delays in the claims processing until something final from the cruise line is in hand. I doubt that the insurer will "go after" the cruise line but I'm pretty sure that the passenger will have to sign something stating that if there's any future additional money coming from the cruise line that they'll have to sign it over to the insurer up to the amount that was paid on the claim.

 

Remember too that insurance will only cover actual monetary losses. So if the cruiser is looking for any money to compensate for the disappointment or aggravation of the whole situation that will have to come from the cruise line either from a voluntary settlement, arbitration, or through a law suit.

[happy cruzer]

With all due respect, we all feel bad for those whose Alaskan Tour/Cruise plans went astray. I thought this might lighten the load:

 

TOUR 12 Theme Song

 

Just sit right back and you’ll hear a tale,

a tale of a fateful trip,

That started from this frigid place

to board a HAL ship.

 

The mate was not a HAL man,

the skipper clueless and meek

Tour 12 set off that fateful day

For a 3 hour tour, a 3 hour tour…

 

The weather started getting rough,

Tour 12’s plans astray

 

If not for the courage of the fearless crew,

more luggage would have been lost, more luggage would have been lost.

 

Twenty-nine of Tour 12 , stuck on ground, of this uncharted place

With Gilligan, the Skipper too

The Millionaire, and his Wife,

The Movie Star, the Professor and Mary Ann,

here at Stranded Tour 12 Place

 

So this is a tale of our castaways,

they’re here for a long, long time.

They have to make the best of things

It’s an uphill climb.

 

The first mate and his skipper too

may not have done their best

to make their tour guests comfortable

in the Alaskan Wilderness

 

No luggage, no meds no rail cars

only a few bare necessities

Like a mealsy shipboard credit,

as ordinary as can be.

 

So join us here, each week my friend

You’re sure to get a smile

From 29 stranded castaways

Here on Tour Twelve isle.

 

This was the most artistic post that I have ever read. I missed it when the threads were merged and just now found it. Starting from my days of the Darpanet or usenet, this is the best post ever; although the trip report of a certain poker player in Vegas in the old days.. well it was classic too. Is there an award like a grammy you would get it!

 

And some day we will get to hear how the illfated tour ended.

[hammybee]

And some day we will get to hear how the illfated tour ended.

 

Thank you. You made my day.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I missed that too, Hammybee!!! That was terrific ... so glad someone brought it forward.

 

Brought a smile to my lips.:)